Some emissions legal stuff that I stumbled upon.

[Taffy]

While I was checking the CARB (www.arb.ca.gov) website for legal front mount intercoolers (ATR and Kenne Bell are the only CARB legal FMICs for the 86-87 TRs BTW)(The Spearco kit for the 84-85s is also CARB legal) for the MKIV Supra, I came upon CARB EO: D-99-2 that Turbonetics was granted on 12/27/1991 (Merry Christmas I guess!). Click here and do a search for D-99-2.

Here is what it says:

Model_Specification:1986-1987 model-year Buick Regal Grand National/T-Type and the Pontiac Turbo Trans Am with 3.8L V-6 turbocharged, intercooled, and fuel injected engines.

Modification_Allowed: Relocate PCV breather connection on passenger-side valve cover to a self-contained breather assembly installed in place of the original valve cover connecting line.

So do you guys think this means that the small K&N air filter in the passenger side valve cover is legal??

 

[Drewster]

pcv on valve cover

i set up my pcv on the valve cover.
i used the stock breather assembly. instead of using the pipe to the turbo inlet, i put a pcv valve in its place, (had to cut off the bottom grommet pipe on the pcv). this is then ty-wrapped in place.
the new pcv is hosed to a modified mini compressor filter/separator and then hosed to the intake vacuum piping.
i was having problems with oil in the intake which was comming from the stock location pcv . i now have an old PCV sitting in the intake grommet with no hose connections.
i get oil containment from the filters in the stock valve cover assembly as well as the home made separator.
has been working well but not 100%. significant improvement in knock reduction.


andrew

 

[gofstbuick]

Originally posted by Taffy
While I was checking the CARB (www.arb.ca.gov) website for legal front mount intercoolers (ATR and Kenne Bell are the only CARB legal FMICs for the 86-87 TRs BTW)(The Spearco kit for the 84-85s is also CARB legal) for the MKIV Supra, I came upon CARB EO: D-99-2 that Turbonetics was granted on 12/27/1991 (Merry Christmas I guess!). Click here and do a search for D-99-2.

Here is what it says:

Model_Specification:1986-1987 model-year Buick Regal Grand National/T-Type and the Pontiac Turbo Trans Am with 3.8L V-6 turbocharged, intercooled, and fuel injected engines.

Modification_Allowed: Relocate PCV breather connection on passenger-side valve cover to a self-contained breather assembly installed in place of the original valve cover connecting line.

So do you guys think this means that the small K&N air filter in the passenger side valve cover is legal??

An open breather is not legal and the intercooler doesn't matter. If you look in the current smog check manual (revision 6), intercoolers for OEM turbos are items that are not of concern. Meaning you can put any type of intercooler on your turbocharged engine and it will be legal. So, Kenne Bell and ATR (and any of the other manufacturers that have obtained a E.O. for an intercooler) CARB Executive Order basically means nothing.

 

[Matt Weiser]

Drewster: Got any photos or drawings of your setup? I'm interested but it's hard for me to picture it from your description. Thx!

 

[Gary Wells]

I would like to see pics and/or a sketch also. Sounds interesting.

 

[Drewster]

pics of alternate PCV connection

gimme a day or two
it a pretty neat set up.

 

[Taffy]

Re: Re: Some emissions legal stuff that I stumbled upon.

Originally posted by gofstbuick
An open breather is not legal and the intercooler doesn't matter. If you look in the current smog check manual (revision 6), intercoolers for OEM turbos are items that are not of concern. Meaning you can put any type of intercooler on your turbocharged engine and it will be legal. So, Kenne Bell and ATR (and any of the other manufacturers that have obtained a E.O. for an intercooler) CARB Executive Order basically means nothing.

I can understand that it is legal to pass smog with it, BUT is it legal when the police man pulls you over and wants to give you a ticket for something not having a CARB #??

According to the California Highway Patrol (I asked the VIN officer), you have to have a CARB #, or be able to prove that it is CARB legal to not get a ticket.

That leads me to believe that the Police and the Emissions guys are not reading from the same book.

Anyone?

 

[gofstbuick]

Taffy,
Would you like me to fax to you the appendix K of the revision 6 Smog Check Manual? I have held an advanced emissions smog license since 1985 (to current) and for 12 of those years until I was a Smog Check Referee and Technical Coordinator for the Smog Check Referee (two years). So I think I qualify as anyone else.

 

[TRBON8R]

I can't imagine 99.9% of the cops out there would either know or care whether or not you had a modified cooler. Even I don't have bad enough luck to run into the .1% that might know the difference. Apparently according to gofstbuick it doesn't matter anyway. I wouldn't worry.

Thanks for the info gofstbuick. It's nice to know that if I ever decide to switch to a front mount cooler I won't have any problems. I just hope the ported heads and cam I installed don't cause me problems come smog time!

 

[Taffy]

Originally posted by gofstbuick
Taffy,
Would you like me to fax to you the appendix K of the revision 6 Smog Check Manual? I have held an advanced emissions smog license since 1985 (to current) and for 12 of those years until I was a Smog Check Referee and Technical Coordinator for the Smog Check Referee (two years). So I think I qualify as anyone else.

Gogstbuick, I believe you. I did not say that I did not believe you. I even talked to an emissions guy out here by me and he told me the same thing. I am not challenging your qualifications.

What I am challenging is whether you (the emissions people) and the Police are reading from the same book (not necessarily lirerally). Until I get the A-OK from the CHP, I really don't care if it is legal for passing smog or not because the emissions check people are not the ones giving out tickets.

TRBON8R, the police, especially the CHP, are getting more and more training about CARB #s and what is legal on cars all the time. Most of them are pretty knowledgable when it comes to what you can and can not do to a car.

I called Turbonetics yesterday to get clarification on what their EO# means, but no one has called me back yet. I have a feeling that their EO# is exactly what Drewster did; plumb the valve cover with a PCV into the intake.

I will post my results when I call the CHP and see what they say about it.

 

[Gary Wells]

I haven't heard of anyone receiving a ticket from the CHP, Sheriff's dept, or any city Municipalities (Police Depts) in years for any smog, emission, or CARB violations. I believe that one of these days it will starting happening again, but I did not know that it is currently going on.
Any one received any tickets as described under the conditions above recently?

 

[gofstbuick]

I think alot of the problems people are having with law enforcement is IMHO that some people go looking for trouble (I'm not accusing anyone on this board or any other). They are really concerned about street racing. I received a call from a law enforcement agency some 5 years ago about a sanctioned import race in Palmdale. But the problem is that after the race, rickey race car driver decided to take the racing to the streets and basically make a mess of the town. Not to mention the safety issues for the local citizens. There method of combating the the problem was to issue 27156 tickets for modified emissions control system(s). The newest target is noise pollution and modified exhaust systems. I can say that my Chevelle and Buick were the examples used in the CHP training video. As both have non-factory exhaust, that has supposedly approved db levels. But the Chevelle is definitely too loud (106 @ 3300rpm; bear in mind that the max db level at a sacramento kings games is 104) and the Buick is okay (91db). Those that receive tickets for modified exhaust will be required to visit the Referee to have their exhaust system tested (for excessive noise). I also suspect that some of the CHP officers will again maintain a smog check license or receive training from BAR employees or Referee.
The reason I offerred a faxed copy of appendix K is that you could keep it in your vehicle and explain to some who may not know and keep on file at your business (as this seems to be a concern for you and some of your customers).
On my Buick, I have the modifications listed below, some legal and some not. I also have tinted windows. My car is a daily driver (30 mile round trip commute) on freeways and city streets. I make sure that my car will pass smog check every year without having to make any modifications. I have not been harassed by law enforcement (and just because I work for the sate and closely with law enforcement, does not exempt me from traffic enforcement). In fact I received a speeding ticket (chevelle) some 2 years ago for aggressively passing a honda accord doing 55mph in the fast lane. Some day I would like to find out what it will run, and sometimes I definitely drive too fast (what can I say, I own a GN ). But I will not race on the street and will confine it to the track. Sorry for the length. I too am interested in the PCV configuration of the Turbonetics ARB approved turbo. I suspect that it just relocates the KV to some other part of the induction system. Also, those EO have a shelf life and can be rescinded or renewed at the expiration of the EO

 

[Taffy]

Gofstbuick, sorry for my tone. I got off on the wrong foot. I plan to get a copy of just about everything I can get and keep it in my car. I am basically legal looking, but I could not pass smog emissions to save my life right now though. I do have a catalytic converter on the car at all times. It is not hollowed.

Thanks for the info.

 

[gofstbuick]

Don't need to apologize to me (I pretty thick skinned ). but since you're having smog check issues, why don't you email (joseph_cheung@dca.ca.gov) a number I can call you at and we'll go over some things that may help you.