Smokin the Buick

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Guys, Was tieing up some loose ends on my 65 Chevy...but in the process I found some Forged Pistons with rods out of Grand National that are .030 over...As some of you might remember I have 83 Buick Regal....with a 79-80 turbo hot air setup on it....still plumbing it...and hooking up exhaust..
Now...did Grand Nationals have forged cranks ?? Will these pistons and rods bolt up to my crankshaft ?? Do I Need a forged Crank ??
I have been looking at these piston pins...they are free floating right...seems like they are pressed into the connecting rod and just turn in the piston ???? I would thought there would been some kind of a retaining clip on each side of the Pin to keep it from sliding it out of the piston...??
Also check out this piston and most are like this...looks like the bottom edge of the side of the piston is kind of rounded out as if it was hitting something....almost as if the counter weight on the crank was hitting it...What do you guys think

 

[charlief1]

GN's didn't get forged cranks or pistons Vince. If you found a set of forged pistons that will work I'd say go for it but it looks like balancing marks to me.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

I guess I was way way off on that one...I thought because of the forged pistons they could handle lots of extra boost..The rods are double dimple too..Thats just hardened right ??... What about those piston pins...Are they suppose to slide out of the piston but stay attached to the rod ??
When I do get these pistons and rods into my Buick is there anything I should to to the oiling system to make it work better ??
Something was hitting against the bottom of these pistons and a lot...
I had to have a custom made downpipe made up out of 2 1/2 14guage Aluminized steel...I had it made so it goes down and over the frame rail instead of next to the starter like the later pipes I have seen.

 

[charlief1]

A forged piston will hold up to boost much better but it's not a factory option. They used a steel insert in the pin boss to help prevent piston breakage. If you've found some better than stock pistons and rods I honestly say go for it. The engine will live longer this way.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Thanks for setting me straight on that one again...If I manage to get this car running this year maybe next year I will pull the motor and bore it out .030 over so I can use these pistons and rods.
The 4 x 4s holding up my 65 Chevy are starting to sag so I just have to get that thing down on the frame. I'm waiting to hear a big crash one of these nights and that will pretty much be the end of the car if that happens.
I am bending up cardboard tubing ( actually slicing it and holding it together with tape) to make a pattern for the exhaust tubing guy to copy...The dude uses 14 gauge pipe and that stuff is like real Heavy duty...and I am saving a ton of money making my exhaust that way. He can even put flares on the ends too if I want.
Purchased these louvered strips of steel on E-bay...plan on putting them next to the scoop. It is a GN hood. This whole hood is warped because of the heat from the turbo and paint is blistered also.. Thinking about maybe putting 2 louvered strips on one side right over the turbo... It seems Like I have seen some cars with louvers just on one side of the hood. It would be very functional that way... I don't know though ....still kicking that one around a bit.. I know one thing though...I'm not going to go through all that work straightening the hood just to have it warp again from heat.

 

[WarWagon]

And... the wrist pin is pressed into the rod and the pin floats in the piston, so no clips are needed as the pin has to be pressed back out

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

War Wagon Welcome !! Thanks for that info...I was kind of thinking that wasn't sure...Looks like a strange setup but I guess with the piston locked in the cylinder and the rod locked on to the crank it would really have no where to slide to...
Now this is where I really got screwed up last time when I put together a engine with forged Jahns pistons....I am going way back now when Jahns first came out with Forged pistons....It seemed they weren't really sure what the piston to wall clearance should be...not alone what type of rings to use..
When the machinist bored the motor for the pistons he made them a little too small and everything was way way too tight....To make everything worse I put Chrome rings on and they never seated :frown: The pistons I put in were supposedly egg shaped ???? So the Machine shop said...but I think they were full of it...They said that when the cylinder got heated it would be egg shaped too so it would fit well...I still can't believe I fell for that line of crap... They also had too shinny of a finish on the cylinder so the rings couldn't cut into it and seat....These guys were suppose to be pros but that was all BS too...
So on this motor what should the piston to wall clearance be with a forged piston and what are the best rings to use...I am thinking a set with at least one cast iron ring so it will seat well.

 

[charlief1]

Chrome Moly rings Vince. As far as the pistons they're only round at the very top and become slighly oval shaped at the bottom. It's refered to as cam ground. If you get hold of the piston manufacturer they can give you the exact specs for the piston bore.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

As long as I am replacing the pistons and rods, What about the cam..I won't be racing this car so it will be just street. Some guys have told me not even to worry about it and to just stay stock, because the turbo will make up the difference. I was thinking about a much hotter cam with hydralic lifters...but at what lift would you have to switch to roller rockers ?? On an old Pontiac I was working on I had to install Screw in rocker studs because I was pulling out the pressed ones with lots of spring pressure....Could that happen with stock heads or are the rocker studs pretty solid in them ?? I already replaced the timing chain with a roller when my water pump sprung a leak..

 

[charlief1]

You don't need a much "hotter" cam to wake it up Vince. The turbo cars just need a little help. Honestly you shouldn't need more than a cam with a .470 to .500 lift to make it quite fast for what it is. Matt will b!tch at me but the standard 204/214 duration cam works well and you can get it from many different makers.

As far as rockers you can get rollers but you'll pay almost $600 for them unless you get lucky like I did. The other issue is the height of the valve covers to clear them. With the down pipe and up pipe There's some clearance issues but you can over come them if you're willing to make new ones or have someone do it for you.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

When going to a .4 + lift could you still use the stock stamped out rockers?? Also would they clear the stock valve covers ? I have that plendum chamber hanging right over my valve cover and If I had to raise it ...woo....I would have to change all my pipes, and probably have to put a spacer under my turbo..That would be a real pain.
Also when going to a .4+ lift...are we talking roller hydralics here ?? I didn't even check the stock lift ...but I am guessing its around a quarter of an inch or something..?? Trying to get back to working on that car as soon as I can.. Is it possible to polish Alumized Steel ....like they are making exhaust pipes out of ??

 

[charlief1]

You can get HD stock rockers if you need them Vince, as well as HD shafts. The factory lift is over .400 on the later engines and I've run bigger lifts myself so it souldn't be an issue.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Sounds good to me...Did the Grand Nationals have the rocker arm shafts and would they bolt up to my engine ?? I guess they came with the Heavy Duty rockers also ...or did they ?? Still getting up to speed here...bare with me...

 

[charlief1]

Check TA Performance for the HD shafts and rockers Vince. All the RWD engines use shafts and 78 up are pretty much the same. The only exception is the TTA. I'm not sure what they use but they won't fit the standard rocker system.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

with the quality control issues of HD rocker shafts i wouldnt even worry about it.

you dont have enough cam to tax the stock shafts.

stock shafts should be just fine.

A.j.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Cams

Since I have a 83 V6 Regal...will a later model GN Cam fit ? Didn't the cams get bigger in these cars ?? Journal size... So if I was going to put in one of these HD Shafts...would the holes be there to mount it ?? I mean If I was going to put in some Forged pistons and HD rods might as well beef up the valve train too...??
Finishing up My Chevy SS enough to drop it on the Frame soon.. Then I will be able to get back on the Buick.. Too bad I have to paint the frame first.. will have to knock down a few Martienies after that...What a rust bucket !!
Picked up a parts washer...besides Safety Klean What kind of a water base cleaner will really work... I saw some made by ZEP... expensive but usually they make some good stuff..

 

[charlief1]

Ozzie juice works pretty well Vince. As far as the cam you need to check the clearance to make sure everything fits. Other than that you should be ok. What're you doing up so late for? Have a good night, I'm done now.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

I don't think I ever heard of Ozzie juice....where do you get it ?? I hardly ever go to sleep before 2AM... Seem to get better ideas around that time..
Here is one for you that's a little off the wall....I am working on this car now that has been sitting a long time in a barn....It has undercoating on it from day 1 almost as thick as tar....and hard like epoxy...and it has mud stuck in it from day 1 also...water will not get this mud off...you can brush it with a wire brush and nothing will happen...somehow it has bonded with the undercoating..How do I get this stuff off ?? I have this plastic round wheel with long fingers on it which I have on an air sander....it is suppose to be able to remove rust...I am going to give that a try....I have tried 36 Open Coat Sanding discs...and they melt the undercoating and the sanding disc just clogs right up. I had this crap under my rear quarter trim panels...all on the window adjustment screws....had to use an air chisel to get that off... Now I will be happy if I can get just the antique aged mud off of it.. Will let you know how those magic fingers work.. Looks like one of those scrub brushes used to massage your scalp if you ask me...

 

[charlief1]

You can get Ozzie juce through NAPA Vince. It's 100% water soluble and enviro friendly. Works suprisingly well.

As far as the coating you may want to look into some sort of blasting matereal. I found a water/sand blasting kit that's around $110 but you have to have a pressure washer to use it. No dust and no complaints from the neighbors after all is a good thing.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

I just gave NAPA a call and the Ozzie juice is 85 bucks..seems steep to me...When ZEP is about a third of that price.. The Pressure washer sounds good but my body is up on concrete blocks and 4 x 4s and in my garage...I really should get a rotissary with wheels so I could bring that thing out of my garage...Been thinking about getting a pressure washer though...My friend has one of those cheepos...I think I could use it to take a shower with.. I use to work with a cleaning company who had on in a van....unless you would hold that wand with 2 hands it would fly away with you on it.... Guess I would have to get one somewhere in the middle of those.. Thanks for the ideas !!!