Remote Starter on Manual Transmission

[theMonch]

I have put this out to a couple of the Toyota tech boards that I am a member of, but I thought it might stand a chance of getting a solution with some of the very talented techs on this board.

I have an 88 Toy 4runner (my DD) that I installed a remote starter in a few years back. Now I know this is techniacally illegal, but in the NorthEast it rocks to have one of these on cold winter days. I have been getting by with a manual switch that I installed next to my shifter that enables the remote start feature. So, when I leave the vehicle I put it in neutral, flip the switch to enable it. When I start the vehicle remotely the next time all is good and when I get back in the truck to drive away, I flip the switch off to start the cycle for next time.

The problem with this system is, obviously if I forget to flip the switch off the next time I get in the truck because I did not remote start it or whatever reason, then it leave open a window of opportunity to accidentaly leave it in gear with the system enabled. This results in the truck taking off down the street unmanned. Not a pretty site.

The trans has no electronics in it other that the switch that triggers the reverse lights, so there is no way to detect neutral from factory means.

My question is can anyone think of a switch or circuit that I can build that would detect a neutral condition with a manual transmission? I have thought of a few ideas, but am curious to hear what others would do.

My idea that would have the best chance of success in my mind is an array of window cantact switches (like the kind home security systems have on the windows and doors) wired together in series and forming a square around the base of the shifter. This way if the shifter was left in a gear other than neutral (which is in the center) the shaft would magnetically make contact from a ring on its shaft to close the circuit and therefore disable the remote start. There are plenty of calibration hurdles to overcome with this system and thereis very limited space to work with at the base of the shifter.

I have very little transmission internals experience, so I was trying for an external solution.

I have attached a diagram of the components of the trans as well as a higher res PDF the jpeg was made from. Anyone have any ideas. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[95' regal gs]

Most people leave their manual trans vehicles in one specific gear when they park (I always do second), could you just setup a switch on the gear you normaly leave it in? Not fool-proof but it would be an extra margin of safety. Or mabey you could use two pull type switches mounted opposite each other in front and behind the shifter with two springs running to the base of the shifter. Set the springs up so the switches are closed only when the shifter is centered? I'll think on it some more tomorrow...

 

[novaderrik]

somehow wire the bypass switch so that the remote start is powered off it.. if you don't flip the switch, the remote start won't work.

 

[theMonch]

Most people leave their manual trans vehicles in one specific gear when they park (I always do second), could you just setup a switch on the gear you normaly leave it in? Not fool-proof but it would be an extra margin of safety. Or mabey you could use two pull type switches mounted opposite each other in front and behind the shifter with two springs running to the base of the shifter. Set the springs up so the switches are closed only when the shifter is centered? I'll think on it some more tomorrow...

Yes, like I always flop it into 2nd or "most of the time" neutral. But I was trying for a fool-proof solution that has zero human dependence. It actually is quite a challenge if there is no OEM electronics to tap into. Most solutions are compromises.

The closest I have been able to find is a guy that put an optical sensor off of the output shaft of the trans so if the remote start engaged and the trans was in gear, the optical sensor would detect rotation of the output shaft and engage the fail-safe. This is OK in theory, but I have tested what the truck will do with a tire chuck under the wheel when it attempts a remote start in gear and it crawls right over the chuck and keeps on going. Sometimes it will stall if it is cold out enough and it puts enough of a strain on motor to trip a "bad-start" condition, but 9 out of 10...see you later. You would be surprised the damage that can be inflicted upon the back of a Honda Element with just 18 mere inches of running start!

I had a thought tonight to have a switch, that when the ignition was turned off it would hydraulicaly engage the clutch slave cylinder, so regardless if I left it in gear, the trans would never engage during a remote start. The clutch is already hydraulic so all I would need is an electronic pump that would engage and reach a certain pressure and then disengage and lock pressure. (picture a line lock that built up pressure first before engaging the solenoid)

This put a smile on my face at first when I though of it, but I am a little concerned that I would have to make it be an active system that constantly monitors pressure and re-engages if pressure is lost. This also would make it impossible to park on really steep inclines where I would need to leave it in gear as a safety measure, unless a bypass was installed to compensate.

Thanks for the thoughts. It really isn't an easy proposition is it?

 

[craggar]

I've put a couple in standards years ago including a Toyota sr5. I don't remember exactly what I had to do for the wiring. I do remember putting a switch on the clutch pedal or tying into one that was already there. Also I tied into the e brake so that it had to be engaged before it worked as well.

When you set the remote the car had to be running in neutral and e brake on or it wouldn't set.

Do you have the scematics for the remote still?

 

[steve hughes]

Use a normally closed magnetic proximity switch like you would use for an entry door. Or a magnetic reed switch from Radioshack . Put the magnet on the shift lever. Put the switch where it will only line up with the shifter in the center of its throw which would be in nuetral.




1 3 5


N N N


2 4 R

 

[sirsteve2]

lLook into the new viper remote starts they are manual transmission friendly!!! They work by requiring you to activate the remote start with the vehicle running prior to turning turning vehicle off with key. When you exit the vehicle and shut the door the door trigger signals the remote start to shut down and this enables the remote start to be activated remotely. This guarantees the vehicle will not be in drive. Also if at anytime a door is opened prior to remote starting the sequence will be interupted and restarted over again....Hope that kinda makes sense

 

[theMonch]

I've put a couple in standards years ago including a Toyota sr5. I don't remember exactly what I had to do for the wiring. I do remember putting a switch on the clutch pedal or tying into one that was already there. Also I tied into the e brake so that it had to be engaged before it worked as well.

When you set the remote the car had to be running in neutral and e brake on or it wouldn't set.

Do you have the scematics for the remote still?

Unfortunately, no I dont. I have the user's manual that I have attached here. The alarm system was supposed to have the manual feature that is described by another member lower in this thread where you would have to arm the system with the car running, then close door. when door was closed, truck would arm and lock doors, and this would assure that the vehicle was out of gear. I could not find any documentation on this anywhere for the money ararm I have (Audiovox AX901).

P.S. The users manual is for an AX900 model, which I am told is identical.

Thanks for input.

 

[theMonch]

Use a normally closed magnetic proximity switch like you would use for an entry door. Or a magnetic reed switch from Radioshack . Put the magnet on the shift lever. Put the switch where it will only line up with the shifter in the center of its throw which would be in nuetral.




1 3 5


N N N


2 4 R

I have experimented with a reed switch system, but the hard part is the calibration of the proximity of the switch(s) to the ring magnet on base of shifter. It would work with two reed switches on either side of shift gate, but when in "true neutral" in the center, it was too far to activate either side switch.

Thanks for input.

 

[theMonch]

lLook into the new viper remote starts they are manual transmission friendly!!! They work by requiring you to activate the remote start with the vehicle running prior to turning turning vehicle off with key. When you exit the vehicle and shut the door the door trigger signals the remote start to shut down and this enables the remote start to be activated remotely. This guarantees the vehicle will not be in drive. Also if at anytime a door is opened prior to remote starting the sequence will be interupted and restarted over again....Hope that kinda makes sense

Yeah, my system (Audiovox AX901) was supposed to have this feature as well, but I had purchased it and sat on it for a year or so before installing. When I finally got around to the install, I notised that there was no manual trans feature in it.

I never was a huge fan of the DEI products (Viper, etc.) I have always had problems with them becoming glitchy after a few years. I guess I might have to bite-the-bullet and research a new system, or continue the way I have been with my "human-error" system.

Thanks for input.

 

[95' regal gs]

What about a mercury switch on the shift lever, like one used for an under hood light? I don't know if they make dual contact mercury switches so you might need two so that it would work on both throws of the shifter. Then you could use a relay to interupt the arming circuit if the contacts of the mercury switch were closed. Oh crap, I just relized that if you used a normally open relay, when you left the car in gear the relay would be energized, that would probably kill the battery overnight....

 

[95' regal gs]

Duh, how about a normally closed mercery switch, closed being level, level being neutral?

 

[mikestertwo]

Allied carries a magnetic metal sensing proximity sensor that has a built in magnet so no external magnet is needed. You could mount that on a bracket next to the shifter. They are not cheap though about $65

 

[theMonch]

Duh, how about a normally closed mercery switch, closed being level, level being neutral?

You don't park on hills?

 

[95' regal gs]

You don't park on hills?

Actually, I don't (Illinois flatlands).

 

[RA3Goat]

Use 6 switches, one for each gear position, wired in series and normally closed. So if one switch is open, meaning the shifter is in a gear, the remote start will not work.

 

[GSTOY]

I would just put a switch on the parking brake. If it's engaged, it will allow you to remote start, and on the off chance you left it in gear, the parking brake should hold, so the vehicle doesn't go anywhere. If you don't engage the parking brake, your remote start won't work.