Rear Main seals...how to....some help..

[Freddie's Buick]

I did this once before but I forgot. I've got KB Viton end seals and the Fel-Pro full kit. It comes with these long nails....whatever are they for?? Which ones would you use? The Fel-Pro end seals are firm rubber, the KB's are soft viton.

I'm doing this on my back side with engine in vehicle, (I would'nt of asked if engine was on a stand).

Easy enough to remove oil pan. Jut need a refresher. By the way, I'm looking into a rubber oil pan gasket by Fel-Pro, #1800. Anyone with experiance on this gasket? My objective is re-usability.

The leak was ignorable before. Now it's loosing too much oil. My driveway and my wife hate me. Please help.

 

[charlief1]

Get some of the silicone in the pressureized can Freddie. Clean everything in the extreme and put it together without the seals in it then fill them with the silicone. Let it dry for 24 hours and that should take car of it. As far as the pan gasket you should be fine with the fel pro or a stock cork.

 

[Freddie's Buick]

...Get some of the silicone in the pressureized can ....

Silicone in a pressurized can?? Never heard of that. Charlie give me a product name.

So what do you do? Not use the end seals and use the canned silicone instead?

What are the nailly looking things for? What do they do?

 

[wb's87]

Silicone in a pressurized can?? Never heard of that. Charlie give me a product name.

So what do you do? Not use the end seals and use the canned silicone instead?

What are the nailly looking things for? What do they do?

I have a small leak and it drives me crazy. I subscribe. would like to know how to do this.

 

[LOT]

The way I do them

Engine being in car will make my way somewhat more diffilcult.
As Charlie said clean everything GOOD

Once you have the new neophrene seals in position,
I use a paper thin coat of Loctite 518 (this is a gasket eliminator for case to case with no gasket sealer) I suppose other silicone sealants would work. It must be paper thin--put a coating on either the block or cap where they meet.
Use the hard side tabs
Starting @ the mating surface of cap and using silicone sealant, fill the side groove 1/3 to 1/2 way full from bottom to top--coat and fill grooves in side tabs with sealant---insert HARD side tabs being carfull not to push silicone below mating surface--install cap and torque to desired value--now using small rubber mallet drive side tabs in --you probably won't drive them flush--once you see silicone being pushed out the sides --that is far enough. Cut excess side tab off. Using the shorter nails --drive one each in the slot next to cap. This may be excessive but it WORKS and you have eliminated any chance for a leak. Best of luck.--Lee

 

[83turbomon]

I need to listen in because my rear main seal leaks BADLY

 

[mat231v6]

83 turbo just pull the motor and rebuild it. you will have to do it some time so why not do it now.

 

[Freddie's Buick]

......Once you have the new neophrene seals in position, I use a paper thin coat of Loctite 518 (this is a gasket eliminator for case to case with no gasket sealer) I suppose other silicone sealants would work. It must be paper thin--put a coating on either the block or cap where they meet.

I'm with ya so far, I've got Loctite 518. I was intending to use this only on the mating surfaces of the cap or block....

......Use the hard side tabs...Starting @ the mating surface of cap and using silicone sealant, fill the side groove 1/3 to 1/2 way full from bottom to top--coat and fill grooves in side tabs with sealant---insert HARD side tabs being carfull not to push silicone below mating surface--install cap and torque to desired value...

Here you loose me. Silicone sealant?? Any kind or what Charlie suggested?
How can I avoid getting the rubber sealant from squeezing onto the mating surface were I applied Loctite 518?

Should'nt I first torque it down and then apply the rubber sealant and proceed with inserting the hard side seals to avoid seapage from the silicone/rubber?

--now using small rubber mallet drive side tabs in --you probably won't drive them flush--once you see silicone being pushed out the sides --that is far enough. Cut excess side tab off. Using the shorter nails --drive one each in the slot next to cap. This may be excessive but it WORKS and you have eliminated any chance for a leak. Best of luck.--Lee

OK. good! Why is it that you're not a fan of the KB soft Viton end seals and you like the Fel-Pro hard ones more? Also, it seems like there are two schools of thought here: One says eliminate the end seals and use "Right Stuff", the other likes the end seals with sealant and nails. Can you explain why you like the side seal and nail method more?

Thanks, your method sounds old school and well thought out. Just the details are a little blurry to my feeble mind.:biggrin:

 

[LOT]

Freddie

RTV--silicone sealant--same stuff--- what I use comes in a tube like you buy @ any auto store. Black is what I use. Sensor safe if that means anything.
Put your thin coat of 518 on cap and sealant in side grooves. The world won't end if they touch. Just keep the sealant up a tad from the bottom of groove--The reason I like the solid side tabs is becuase of their stiffness. Actually it would be best to dry fit them as I have had to trim--grind the ends of tabs to get them started. Once started you will need to DRIVE them in. The red soft ones are like trying to drive a noodle. Hope this is clear--once you dry fit them I think this will help for first time anyway. Next time you' be a pro.

 

[charlief1]

RTV--silicone sealant--same stuff--- what I use comes in a tube like you buy @ any auto store. Black is what I use. Sensor safe if that means anything.
Put your thin coat of 518 on cap and sealant in side grooves. The world won't end if they touch. Just keep the sealant up a tad from the bottom of groove--The reason I like the solid side tabs is becuase of their stiffness. Actually it would be best to dry fit them as I have had to trim--grind the ends of tabs to get them started. Once started you will need to DRIVE them in. The red soft ones are like trying to drive a noodle. Hope this is clear--once you dry fit them I think this will help for first time anyway. Next time you' be a pro.

Lee's right on this Freddie. If you do it this way it will work great and the silicone is Great stuff if I remember right. We carry it in the store so I'll look at it tomorow to make sure that's the name. Other than that I can reccomend ultra black. It seems to wrk better for me most of the time.:biggrin:

 

[LOT]

Ultra black

That's it!!!!!--could not think of the name.

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Thanks guys...I am not worthy..

Lol!:biggrin:

Yep thats the ticket. Seems like I have every sealant known to mankind and Ultra-Black seems to foot the bill most of the time. (I dig that stuff).

Now I got some 'Right Stuff' too and I'm in the clear. But for this job I'll use the Locktite 518 and the Right Stuff.

Thanks guys...I really think that not using vents on my VC's killed my main seal earlier then expected. (I'm venting the VC to see if that diminishes the leak).

Even if it does subside the main rear sealant is still going to be replaced. I hate oil leaks. Thats one of those things these cars were not well designed at.

 

[LOT]

I know nothing about these eng.

Let's see if I got this right. These are turbocharged cars but with a carberator--called blow through? I assume you still have a PCV valve. If so, do you use a positive stop valve (Kirban for one sales these--not sure what they are called in his book) in line with the PCV valve? IMO, every TR should use one. You can blow backwards through a PCV valve but you can NOT through a positive stop valve. This would keep from pressurizing the crankcase and reduce leakage.
People may or may not believe this but my car DOES NOT leak ONE drop of oil. I drive my car--I go to track and run 25 psi--it does not leak--granted boosted engines are prone to leakage. Not saying it won't some day--maybe today, but it has not since assembly 2 winters ago. But that is what they make seals and gaskets for.

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Good idea...

Yeah the PVC works like this on these cars: It's attached onto the intake, and the vac is drawn from the plenum were the carb sits. I'm not sure how the venting was originally designed although I can probably get hints from the emissions schematics from the previous years,('77-'83), that are posted all over this forum.

After reading through various searches I checked to see if I vented mine properly. I found that The only venting I had was disfunctional, (not within the PVC system but the oil cap breather). It was not breathing properly. It was a mock up which I mistakenly ignored was a PVC style oil cap. It needed to have a vacuum source which I did not provide for.

So no venting. I have an additional breather element that does not use any vac so I popped that in there for now. Hopefully now the crankcase can breath and release some stress on the seals. Not really sure if these cars need that Kirban valve though. Have'nt really given it much though.

 

[charlief1]

Lol!:biggrin:

Yep thats the ticket. Seems like I have every sealant known to mankind and Ultra-Black seems to foot the bill most of the time. (I dig that stuff).

Now I got some 'Right Stuff' too and I'm in the clear. But for this job I'll use the Locktite 518 and the Right Stuff.

Thanks guys...I really think that not using vents on my VC's killed my main seal earlier then expected. (I'm venting the VC to see if that diminishes the leak).

Even if it does subside the main rear sealant is still going to be replaced. I hate oil leaks. Thats one of those things these cars were not well designed at.

Right Stuff. I couldn't think of the name. It's in a pressureized can.

Let's see if I got this right. These are turbocharged cars but with a carberator--called blow through? I assume you still have a PCV valve. If so, do you use a positive stop valve (Kirban for one sales these--not sure what they are called in his book) in line with the PCV valve? IMO, every TR should use one. You can blow backwards through a PCV valve but you can NOT through a positive stop valve. This would keep from pressurizing the crankcase and reduce leakage.
People may or may not believe this but my car DOES NOT leak ONE drop of oil. I drive my car--I go to track and run 25 psi--it does not leak--granted boosted engines are prone to leakage. Not saying it won't some day--maybe today, but it has not since assembly 2 winters ago. But that is what they make seals and gaskets for.

As far as the design Lee, they work almost identicle to a HA but it's a draw through design. The carb is set on a plenum so it behaves like a throttle body, but with the fuel added.

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle...

The leak has stopped in it's severity. That was it....no crankcase breathing. Pushing out fumes and oil were it could at the rubber seals.

Put that on your watch list Charlie. Once you seal this engine up tight, it needs an opening and the PCV is not enough.

I never cared when I had it as an N/A, but with the turbo it increases crankcase pressure. Without a breather element it's gonna cause severe leaks.

The top pic is what I was using. I removed it and now I'm using a breather element below. Leakage has almost stopped. It's almost acceptable now. At least I can wait a little longer before going under again...:biggrin:

 

[mat231v6]

what is that breather hooked to i cant tell?

 

[WarWagon]

to a port on the VC with some plumbing.

 

[Freddie's Buick]

...to a port on the VC with some plumbing.

...Lol...dude you're good. :biggrin:

Guess what I used?

 

[charlief1]

...Lol...dude you're good. :biggrin:

Guess what I used?

PCV tubing.:biggrin: It's mounted in a passenger side valve cover off an 86-87 engine.:biggrin: