Pulling hair.. PL logs, running lean new Fuel Pump
- Thread starter Superrmario
- Start date
Superrmario
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- Joined
- Nov 6, 2013
Yes.. Ran her yesterday with a good quality fuel pressure test gauge. Proved my rail mounted gauge wrong. I'm rising from 43psi to 70psi at 20lbs of boost.
New issue(s) now.
Car bogs hard at the top of 3rd almost as if airflow is being restricted. Had this happen on my Turbo Neon, but that ended up being a silicon tube collapsing under boost.
Voltage issues are back. WOT is showing 12.7 at the top of third gear.
I'm getting a bit out of touch with the car now. Frustrated, tired, a bit stressed and a tad angry. Had this car since February, have close to 16k in the thing including the purchase of the car, and I still cannot get it sorted out.
For the most part I didn't spare any expense......
I have attached a PL file... Anyone see anything odd?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Don't give up. It will pay off.
Looks like a fuel issue. Right at the end of the wot hits afr starts to go lean, boost starts to drop. Pump not keeping up or clogged filter.
Looks like a fuel issue. Right at the end of the wot hits afr starts to go lean, boost starts to drop. Pump not keeping up or clogged filter.
Superrmario
Member
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2013
Not giving up that's for sure. Taking a step back.
Ruled out fuel pump and fuel filter as they are both new, and my issues still persist.
Feel like the tail is wagging the dog in my case.
Fuel pressure isn't the issue as I have plenty up top, and I am building through boost.
Think I am still chasing voltage issues.
Back to basics..
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Look at this screenshot of your log. I guarantee you have a fuel issue. Just because stuff is new does not mean you can rule it out. Your fuel is going away up top.
Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
If you're wot and your tps is only 4.1, what is it at idle?
DITCH the narrow band. I know I know 7000 people have tuned off of it to reach low tens but that's still not the norm, it's the exception. Get a good wideband (apparently not innovate) and put it IN THE TEST PIPE. Don't put it too close to the turbo or it's going to start doing silly shit that will REALLY have you chasing your tail.
Voltage (at the alternator, fuel/alky pump, whatever) and fuel pressure at idle is worthless. Means nothing. PLENTY of cars that have a ton of problems check out fine at idle. Unless you have massive idle problems, don't worry about that. I want to know what they are at 5500 rpms. After ten hard runs.
If you have to add a ton of fuel at WOT, something's wrong. Pump, lines, or unmetered air. You know what to do there. But yes adding fuel pressure/wot fuel to see if it changes anything still checks to see if your stuff's working, so that's a good thing. If you up wot fuel to change the lean condition, and the duty cycles are too high for Eric's liking, you'll know you have a true fuel delivery problem. According to your narrowband, even when you have the pedal all the way down, your O2's are dropping at the end of your run. Your pump's either not keeping up, or the voltage TO the pumps fading up top. I'd like a wideband view of that but they're still right, you're fading up top.
And I'd like to know what the problem is with Accufab? Are they known for going bad often? Please advise. I have one lol.
And honestly, I know a lot of people aren't going to like this but throwing parts possibilities at the car for diagnosis sakes is a waste of money. In my personal experience, I've NEVER EVER fixed a car's problems by changing a fuel filter or O2 sensor. It's NEVER a fuel filter or O2 sensor. Never. I've seen cars with 200,000 plus miles on them with fuel delivery issues on them, and when we changed the fuel filter, it fixed NOTHING. EVER. Once we've sorted out the problem, my stubborn self put the old fuel filter back on to MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE I wasn't chasing my tail, and it worked EVERY TIME. Don't start randomly replacing parts and sensors on a car to diagnose it. It's a waste of time and money. Wanna see my garage? I'll show you 500 dollars worth of old beat up "bad" parts that still work just fine lol.
DITCH the narrow band. I know I know 7000 people have tuned off of it to reach low tens but that's still not the norm, it's the exception. Get a good wideband (apparently not innovate) and put it IN THE TEST PIPE. Don't put it too close to the turbo or it's going to start doing silly shit that will REALLY have you chasing your tail.
Voltage (at the alternator, fuel/alky pump, whatever) and fuel pressure at idle is worthless. Means nothing. PLENTY of cars that have a ton of problems check out fine at idle. Unless you have massive idle problems, don't worry about that. I want to know what they are at 5500 rpms. After ten hard runs.
If you have to add a ton of fuel at WOT, something's wrong. Pump, lines, or unmetered air. You know what to do there. But yes adding fuel pressure/wot fuel to see if it changes anything still checks to see if your stuff's working, so that's a good thing. If you up wot fuel to change the lean condition, and the duty cycles are too high for Eric's liking, you'll know you have a true fuel delivery problem. According to your narrowband, even when you have the pedal all the way down, your O2's are dropping at the end of your run. Your pump's either not keeping up, or the voltage TO the pumps fading up top. I'd like a wideband view of that but they're still right, you're fading up top.
And I'd like to know what the problem is with Accufab? Are they known for going bad often? Please advise. I have one lol.
And honestly, I know a lot of people aren't going to like this but throwing parts possibilities at the car for diagnosis sakes is a waste of money. In my personal experience, I've NEVER EVER fixed a car's problems by changing a fuel filter or O2 sensor. It's NEVER a fuel filter or O2 sensor. Never. I've seen cars with 200,000 plus miles on them with fuel delivery issues on them, and when we changed the fuel filter, it fixed NOTHING. EVER. Once we've sorted out the problem, my stubborn self put the old fuel filter back on to MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE I wasn't chasing my tail, and it worked EVERY TIME. Don't start randomly replacing parts and sensors on a car to diagnose it. It's a waste of time and money. Wanna see my garage? I'll show you 500 dollars worth of old beat up "bad" parts that still work just fine lol.
Last edited:
Superrmario
Member
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2013
Superrmario
Member
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2013
Tps at idle is 4.0-4.2.
I appreciate the feedback as well, but I really haven't thrown any parts at it to fix.
Fuel pump was done two fold. I had no clue what was in there other than what I was told and my fuel rail gauge was reading everywhere. If I was going to drop the tank and go through all of that trouble I mind as well do the pump.
Fuel Pressure is at 70psi running 20lbs of boost.
Changed the fuel filter cause I didn't know how old it was.
Money won't allow a wideband right now, but my O2 is sitting right at the bottom of the downpipe very close to the Turbine housing. Think it's too close?
Also, voltage is at 12.7 again at WOT top of gear. So that is a huge concern right now.
I have nothing against accufab. Someone else post that. Lol
Thx man
Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
WOT voltage. There ya go.
Superrmario
Member
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2013
Issue has been resolved. Had a second set of eyes look at it yesterday. He found that the grounds from the harness to the back of the driver head was non existent. We found the ground wires and traced them up the passenger fender where they were rigged up, bolted together and connected to a body ground. Disassembled it and ran the wires to a ground block, then to the intake. 830mv at 22lbs of boost. Oddity is, the SM and PL are still showing low voltage, which I have read is sometimes Unresolved.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Time to set up fp logging.
Also, do some volt drop tests, and some ohm tests on the wiring . Do both sides of the circuits..
Also, do some volt drop tests, and some ohm tests on the wiring . Do both sides of the circuits..
Superrmario
Member
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2013
Out of curiosity, why would I want to start logging fuel pressure. Testing it with a gauge, I am building boost 1:1. I mean, I know it would be beneficial to always have it on the fly but is there a specific reason?
I am going to move forward with the wire testing, just glad I got over this hump. Has been a thorn in my side since May
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Out of curiosity, why would I want to start logging fuel pressure. Testing it with a gauge, I am building boost 1:1. I mean, I know it would be beneficial to always have it on the fly but is there a specific reason?
I am going to move forward with the wire testing, just glad I got over this hump. Has been a thorn in my side since May
Maybe to compare system volts to fp, compare sys volts to boost, etc. There's NEVER too much data.
I guess it's a matter of preference/convenience...[Unless you can drive w/ your head under the hood]
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