Please Help Me With The TA Block Thing...

[strikeeagle]

First of all, this isn't a dis this and dis that thread, so don't even go there.

I read where the TA block is projected to be in the low $3000 range.

What niche does this block fill? I mean, what is the advantage of the TA block relative to a stage block? Isn't a stage block cheaper? And don't both blocks require forged cranks, aftermarket rods, forged pistons, etc. That is, you wouldn't put the stock stuff back in your $3000+ TA block, even if you could, would you? I mean, you wouldn't put a cast crank in a TA block, would you?

So educate me. What does the TA block do for you? I know it saves a few pounds, and it won't "dry up" like the stage blocks are, but won't it cost just as much to build one of these as it does a stage block?

That is, it isn't meant to fall in price-wise between a 109 motor and a stage motor, is it?

Help me understand here, and no bitching, please...

 

[FJM568]

All the stock pieces are supposed to work with the TA block...I think the stock turbo crank is a lot stronger than a lot people realize...The stock block is the weak point...IMO, the stock main caps flex downward causing the crank to flex and then end up breaking while taking the block with it...If a crank would just snap off at the journals, you would end up with a crankshaft in two(or more) pieces, but still held in the block by the main caps...But generally, with the stock block, you usually wipe out the block along with the crank...

How many people have destroyed a crank while using steel maincaps and a block girdle??? It doesn't seem as common as people that destroy the stock block/crank with the stock setup...The TA block is made to be stronger on the bottom end to help keep it together under more power than the stock block...I think within the next year, we will find out just how strong the stock crankshaft really is and how much power they can actually handle before the crank itself breaks rather than something else helping it(weak block)...

Other than the cost of the block itself, it really shouldn't cost that much more to build the TA block than it would a stock motor(if you were to use the stock heads, crank, TRW or J&E pistons, etc)...

As for the advantage of the TA block over a Stage block??? The TA block will be in current production, whereas the Stage blocks haven't been produced in probably 10 yrs...

 

[strikeeagle]

I agree that if the TA block was able to use the stock crank and rods (i.e. they'd be sufficiently strong to make XXX horsepower) then the $3000+ would be well worth it as you'd have a cost avoidance of $2000 for a crank and $600 for rods...

Anybody else???

 

[azgn]

I think that is the idea....for us "po folk", just use stock guts and prolly have a reliable motor to much more HP than we get today out of a 109 block.....for those that want to go farther, it'll still be cheaper than a Stage (you can spend $1,500 on the oiling alone not to mention headers, intake, etc)

as an aside, 14 bolt heads will fit, and no bolts into water

and......if you want to go all out, it won't cost any more and I have Mike's phone #.......

 

[86brick]

TA block

Sounds good!

 

[750H.P.V6]

OK Guys,

I figure I'd put my $.02 in here in regard to the TA block. I've seen the casting and it looks to be a very beefy piece. When the get to machining the first block and have a finished part I'm hoping to get in touch with Nick Micale over in AZ and check it out first hand.

As far as the block being a replacement for a stock block I really think that is a bit of a stretch. Not to say you couldn't put stock internals in the new TA block but you can do that with a Stage block too and no one does.

Basically if you want to build a reliable V6 motor that will live at over 750 HP you need to step up and buy all the good pieces. This would include forged crank, rods, good pistons, SFI balancer, SFI flex plate yadda yadda. You get the picture.

The stock crank is a good piece and has been taken to HP levels that the GM engineers couldn't possibly have envisioned but above 600 HP is an accident waiting to happen. It would be foolish to spend $3k+ on a block only to blow it up. Although, since it's aluminum it will be easy to weld repair.

One way or another whether you build a high HP Stage motor or a TA based version you better have a fat wallet and know what you're getting yourself into. Trust me I have 1st hand experience, it ain't a cheap deal.

Neal

 

[strikeeagle]

Guys,

Thanks for the reply.

Neal,

I think you hit it right on the head. When all is said and done, the TA block is essentially a replacement for the stage block, and not the production block...

 

[Steve Wood]

It seems to me that this is a practical version of the Stage blocks that can/will be built from mild to wild. As it can be built with all stock bolt on pieces, it avoids all the hassles of trying to construct a Stage engine for a daily driver. Also, let's face it, there is a dwindling number of Stage parts/blocks available and prices are going up.

As Woody pointed out, the oiling system conversion on a Stage block and then there is the intake situation on some, etc. Another thing that makes it attractive to me is the projected capability to go to more cubic inches. I am old school....nothing beats cubic inches unless it is cubic money.

As Neal points out, aluminium is an attractive feature when it comes to longevity.

I think it nicely fills the niche between a 500 hp stock block and the properly built Stage engines that costs mega bucks.....it is not cheap to build anything strong but this will make it more practical for the average guy on the street trying to build a 10 second car that might actually last for awhile. This block can provide a nice upgrade path without having to start over at the 575 hp level.

 

[86brick]

Very well said Steve..............

I agree 100% with what Steve said! The TA block fills a niche between a built stock block and the big buck Stage motors. I was considering building a girdled stock block to run 11's to high 10's (mid 10's if pushed), but now I think I'm going to wait until the TA block is available and build one of those to run in the 10's. When it's all said and done you'll probably spend about an extra $5-6K with the cost of the TA block, forged steel crank, forged rods, and all the other little things like the SFI stuff that Neal mentioned (I'm not including good forged pistons cause a built stock block would need some forged pistons as well). This isn't bad at all IMO considering the cost of building a good Stage motor

 

[tazgn]

Hey, and don't forget about us that are living on the ragged edge now with their stock blocks.. It would be perfect for people like me I think who alreay have the go fast goodies in the stock block and trying to hold it all together with the girdle. Plus as mentioned I thik it's all the little things with building a stage motor that kills. That's why I didn't. I mean the intake, headers, front cover, oil pan/oil setup, 4.1 pistons, etc. etc.... Where as if I can keep the wife convinced to let me get one when they finally hit the streets, all I do is pull my motor, and transfer everything over (except gaskets/rings/things like that). Then I will feel much better about actually turning up the boost on it. Plus if something should happen, I'd still have the stock girdled block sitting in the garage for emergencies....

Derrick

 

[Chuck Leeper]

T/A blok?/

From what I got at dinner at BG.. There's 2 versions of the block.. One all out and one leaning toward the "stocker" limits..

Nick is that the way you understood Mikes comments??

 

[pwrhws]

I wish I knew more about this whole thing.
It would be ideal if they offered two versions, both of which accepted 14 bolt heads and for bolt mains, the mega block of alluminum and a more stock like block of iron.

It sounds to me that the current alluminum piece is a good alternitive to a stage block.

They need one to split the difference of the two (stock and stage).

What about essentialy recasting a stage block with a wet sump or stock style oiling.
Maybe something that wouldn't go to huge stroke.

Just thoughts, I would like to see a $1500 alternitive.

Something like fords "Sportsman" line of blocks.

 

[Nick Micale]

Re: T/A block?/

Originally posted by Chuck Leeper
From what I got at dinner at BG.. There's 2 versions of the block.. One all out and one leaning toward the "stocker" limits..

Nick is that the way you understood Mikes comments??

Always glad to discuss the T/A V-6 block! Actually Woody and Steve W. have done a great job as they have been following this since the start of the project.

There will only be one type T/A block casting. It is the one that I had in Bowling Green. It is now in the process of being machined and then will be fitted with caps and liners. Plan is to have it a Ken D's about the end of July to fit crank, cam, pistons, etc. After that the second block, already cast, will be machined for verification.

The concept of the T/A block is to have a strong replacement for the stock 3.8 block. An owner can remove all his exsisting parts, or use new ones, and build a high HP motor that will be reliable and not require expensive and complicated add-on band aids.

By taking the 20 year-old stage block design and adding todays knowledge and technology, we have a unique, special block to fit the needs of the Buick enthusiast as well as the Buick racer. This block is as strong, possibly stronger HP-wise, than a stage block. Only one special part is required to put this block in a GN using all the internal and externals now there. That is an oil pick up in the pan.

With the 6 bolt mains, the stock flange and oil passage has been relocated to the front of the block. This pick up will be an item stocked by T/A. The oil system has all the Stage II features, it can be dry sump, feed oil pressure into the front or rear bosses and have drilled [plugable] holes for lifter bores.

The block will have threaded holes for 14 bolt heads. Want to use your exsisting 8-bolt stock heads? No problem, none of the 14 holes [each side] go into water passages, so they just sit there.

Want a race block with a stroke for maybe 300 cu. in.? There is enough material in the casting to raise the cam for a big stroker crank. To do the CNC program, special pieces, timing chain, etc. is a ways down the road, but easily doable when cash flow from the first run of blocks is moving.

It is doubtful that we would ever see enough volume to see the block much, if any, below $3000. For those of you that know or follow the race motors of other brands, this price is very much in line. Last I checked a Chevy alum small block was ~$4000 and alum big-block over $5000. And you know the volume numbers they carry?

I sometimes have to bite my tongue when comments are made concerning price comparisons, or getting things "cheapest", or finding stuff outside the Buick vendors. The Buick performance market is very small compared to Mustang, Mopar and Chev. Here we have a vendor that has invested lots of money to bring this crutial piece to market and support from the true Buick enthiasist should be of overwhelming joy! He should be supported even if you cannot afford this block. Lots of V-6 performance stuff will be following shortly. That is, if there is enough sales, of various parts, to make all this happen.

P.S. This question has GOT to come up so here is the answer first!
It will weigh about 50#'s less than a stage block,

 

[HossV6]

COOOOOLLLLLL!
I'll be waiting!!

 

[TRBON8R]

Nick, I know it's a bit early with the first castings just barely out of the mold but I figured I'd ask anyway. Are there any plans in the future to have off the shelf complete shortblock or maybe even longblock assemblies? There are many of us weekend mechanics out here that could f**k up a cup of coffee and don't have the know how to assemble the engine ourselves.

 

[Intercooler]

Last I spoke with TA they plan on doing rods for the block by the same people making the new V8 rods they offer and also a Steel twist crank to compliment the package that all pieces will be rated to 800 HP. From the prices they threw out at me the new block, twist crank, rods, J&E's should put the entire bottom end right at $5k even. Bolt on a set of GN-1's, big puffer, FAST and hold it to the mat! All while using your stock accs, etc... You will be limited to 800 HP unless you go with 4340 pieces

 

[strikeeagle]

Guys,

Thanks for clarifying this.

I'd like to see a new TA block fitted with OEM LC2 parts (i.e. crank, rods, pistons, etc., then dynoed, and raced, and see what it will do, performance-wise and longevity-wise. That'll prove to me that it is what you say it is...

 

[Quick231]

TA Block

Just wanted to say TA Performance keep up the good work.

 

[salvageV6]

I'll take an 800HP longblock please.

Hold the coffee, I can actually make a pretty good cup of Joe.

Hope TA can actually offer a dyno tested crate motor under 10K delivered.

 

[BUICKTR]

I need one of those blocks badly. Keep up the good work TA Performance!