Original SBC verses LS style engine

[it's just a six]

Surely u dont mean LS heads flow more than sbc???

400 cfm from a LS cylinderhead is not bad, but a bit late since sbc cylinderheads flowed that much a long time ago.

What prduction SBC heads flow 400 CFM?

Yes the LS heads flow better than the old SBC heads when both are ported.
We are talking production heads,not aftermarket heads.

Where are you getting your info from?

Edelbrock is coming out w/heads that can flow over 400 cfm for the LS engines shortly.

 

[rtviper]

GM needs 427ci to make a 500 hp reliable enough for a production vehicle.IF they could make the power with a smaller engine they would of by now .it would boost the mpg. Gm could make more power with the 427 for example the ZR1 ,but they needed a supercharger to do it. Lastly BMW gear their cars accordingly. .

ZO6 about 28 mpg highway
BMW m5 about 17 mpg highway

Now why should they go smaller ?
They didn't need the SC to achieve 600 plus HP they chose to do so to make a more civil package

Don't forget the SB chev is the winningist motor all time, hands down.

 

[chopped39]

no rebuild??no stronger rods or crank?? u like running on borrowed time??
It`s doesnt make any sense to take a 100k mile or even a 50k mile engine and double or triple its horsepower and expect it live. When u buy junk u get junk thats my 2 cents.

Thats where I have seen a few fail. I had spell of trucks come through the shop with failed roller lifters and wipe the cams . Two of them were ss silverado's one had 44k the other had 80k.I also had 2 suburbans 1 5.3 and 1 6.0. they both had 100k on them. The ls engines from the 4.8 to the 6.0 do pull like theres no tomorrow.I would still choose the ls engines if they are maintained correctly they should be pretty dependable.

 

[daverr]

What prduction SBC heads flow 400 CFM?

Yes the LS heads flow better than the old SBC heads when both are ported.
We are talking production heads,not aftermarket heads.

Where are you getting your info from?

Edelbrock is coming out w/heads that can flow over 400 cfm for the LS engines shortly.

what difference does it make if it is production or aftermarket???
your are still going to pay a pretty penny for a 400 cfm cylinderhead regardless of the make. Are you shocked that there are SBC cylinderheads that could match and in some cases beat LSx cylinderheads??? heck do u think small block Ford is behind LSx??

ZO6 about 28 mpg highway
BMW m5 about 17 mpg highway

Now why should they go smaller ?
They didn't need the SC to achieve 600 plus HP they chose to do so to make a more civil package

BMW M5 is a sedan that weighs nearly a thousand pounds more than the Z06.

 

[rtviper]

what difference does it make if it is production or aftermarket???
your are still going to pay a pretty penny for a 400 cfm cylinderhead regardless of the make. Are you shocked that there are SBC cylinderheads that could match and in some cases beat LSx cylinderheads??? heck do u think small block Ford is behind LSx??




BMW M5 is a sedan that weighs nearly a thousand pounds more than the Z06.

The M5 would get better mileage with the LS7 in it with the extra torque. Heavy care like the M5 needs more torque.

Thats why the Mercedes E63 gets better MPG with a much bigger motor, Torque. 22 mpg

 

[it's just a six]

Quote" 400 cfm from a LS cylinderhead is not bad, but a bit late since sbc cylinderheads flowed that much a long time ago."

Thats where your comment is misleading,we are talking about stock production heads, not aftermarket.

370 CFM out of a stock production head,what is the best stock production SBC head flow? Do you know? It's not even a comparision.

Sounds like you prefer the old school engines over the better newer engines,that's cool, to each his own.

The newer heads now have 5 & even 6 bolt holes per cylinder.

Let us know what brand of cylinder SBC heads flow 400 CFM. What size valves etc.

Edelbrock is making affordable LS heads that will flow over 400 cfm.

It's not always about flow,but it does help.

What heads are you going to use on a 460 + CI SBC?

There are heads out there that would be perfect for a big inch LS engine,the All Pros can flow 410 CFM,& watch out for a lot more manufactures & better flowing heads than the All Pros. Watch & see.

 

[1chance]

Hate to jump in, but i just need to know where to get a cheap engine harness to run this truck 6.0 (2002). Also who tune the PCM to stand alone setup?

 

[protracracing]

1chance I have a harness out of a 2004 Avalanche.If this will work I will take $75.00 plus shipping for it.I would look into HPtuners for the tune.

Let me
Dennis

 

[daverr]

The M5 would get better mileage with the LS7 in it with the extra torque. Heavy care like the M5 needs more torque.

Thats why the Mercedes E63 gets better MPG with a much bigger motor, Torque. 22 mpg

So it took an extra 1.3 liters to gain 1-2 mpg, not really much of a difference.
Torque by itself is meaningless. u could change torque output with gearing like the M5 does.

The newer heads now have 5 & even 6 bolt holes per cylinder.

Let us know what brand of cylinder SBC heads flow 400 CFM. What size valves etc.

Edelbrock is making affordable LS heads that will flow over 400 cfm.

It's not always about flow,but it does help.

What heads are you going to use on a 460 + CI SBC?

There are heads out there that would be perfect for a big inch LS engine,the All Pros can flow 410 CFM,& watch out for a lot more manufactures & better flowing heads than the All Pros. Watch & see.

Brodix, Dart and CFE make some great cylinderheads.

Brodix DR 1213 cylinderheads will flow 430+ 2.230/1.580 valves, also any GB and BD series cylinderheads.they have alot more different models.

Dart little cheifs, 9* thru 18* cylinderheads.

for a 460ci to 500ci SBC i would go with Brodix or Darts new sbc with 4.5 bore spacing. 9* , 13* wedge, 12* symmetrical would be the choice of cylinderheads.

 

[rtviper]

So it took an extra 1.3 liters to gain 1-2 mpg, not really much of a difference.
Torque by itself is meaningless. u could change torque output with gearing like the M5 does.
.

78 cubes is meaningless, WTF? And the difference is 5 MPG, Auto makers would sell their souls for an extra 5 MPG to advertise.

Don't forget even a Mercedes weighing about 1000 lbs more gets the same MPG as the M5, because it has a lot more torque and HP.

 

[orodi]

So it took an extra 1.3 liters to gain 1-2 mpg, not really much of a difference.
Torque by itself is meaningless. u could change torque output with gearing like the M5 does.



I'm new to the site and I was reading this trying to get some info on my mustang LS motor swap and came across this post. First of all Dave there is NO WAY you will change the torque output of a motor with gears. I figured i would throw this on here considering I am in school for high performance automotive technology. The only 2 things you will do with gears as far as horsepower or torque "output" of a motor is concerned is A: If you lighten up the rotating mass of the drivetrain you will reduce the power lost by the motor when turning the componets of the drivetrain. B: You can change the gearing to keep the motor inside the torque curve but you will never ADD or Change the torque output by changing the gearing. You will in fact only lessen the loss.

Also my buddy's car is running off a 90k replacement motor without anything being changed outside of the cam, gaskets and intake (to include throttle body etc) on 10lbs of boost, and has been daily driving/racing/murdering this car for 18 months now putting over 500 at the wheel. Yes anything can go wrong with motors at any mileage. There are trucks and cars of all makes and models coming into the dealership i work at part time that has blown/broken _________ after less than 10,000 miles. Yes putting go fast parts on ANYTHING will increase that risk however my old mustang had a 347 on 12lbs of boost and I ran that car at the dragstip everyweekend during race season and on the street for 3 years and never had to change anything outside of spark plugs and the fluids (got lucky). I helped build a c6 zo6 with 10k on the clock and it blew up on the dyno. I blew up a ford motor in 500 miles. The list goes on and on. So if you are happy putting less than 1,000 in a motor and you don't care about changing it since we are all car guys and like working on things bolt it in, blow it up, lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[it's just a six]

Brodix, Dart and CFE make some great cylinderheads.

Brodix DR 1213 cylinderheads will flow 430+ 2.230/1.580 valves, also any GB and BD series cylinderheads.they have alot more different models.

Dart little cheifs, 9* thru 18* cylinderheads.

for a 460ci to 500ci SBC i would go with Brodix or Darts new sbc with 4.5 bore spacing. 9* , 13* wedge, 12* symmetrical would be the choice of cylinderheads.

The thing that is great about the Z06 heads is that my friend is getting 310 cfm @ 400 lift.

 

[it's just a six]

Brodix, Dart and CFE make some great cylinderheads.

Brodix DR 1213 cylinderheads will flow 430+ 2.230/1.580 valves, also any GB and BD series cylinderheads.they have alot more different models.

Dart little cheifs, 9* thru 18* cylinderheads.

for a 460ci to 500ci SBC i would go with Brodix or Darts new sbc with 4.5 bore spacing. 9* , 13* wedge, 12* symmetrical would be the choice of cylinderheads.

The thing that is great about the Z06/LS7 heads is that my friend is getting 310 cfm @ 400 lift.

 

[Stroker-ace]

no rebuild??no stronger rods or crank?? u like running on borrowed time??
It`s doesnt make any sense to take a 100k mile or even a 50k mile engine and double or triple its horsepower and expect it live. When u buy junk u get junk thats my 2 cents.

There are tons of LS motors with over 100K still pushing WELL over stock HP out there.

 

[Danno]

I'm new to the site and I was reading this trying to get some info on my mustang LS motor swap and came across this post. First of all Dave there is NO WAY you will change the torque output of a motor with gears. I figured i would throw this on here considering I am in school for high performance automotive technology. The only 2 things you will do with gears as far as horsepower or torque "output" of a motor is concerned is A: If you lighten up the rotating mass of the drivetrain you will reduce the power lost by the motor when turning the componets of the drivetrain. B: You can change the gearing to keep the motor inside the torque curve but you will never ADD or Change the torque output by changing the gearing. You will in fact only lessen the loss.

Now, not sure if I agree with everything daverr is saying and I'm not claiming to be a wizz by any means but I suggest you look up torque multiplication and how torque is multiplied depending on the final drive ratio.

 

[BetMinesFaster]

Also Dave, Im not one to cat any corners due to cost. Look at any of my builds. I built a rockin 7.0 LSX for my project car, all big dollar parts. Its about where I chose to stick the money. I cant reason a huge dollar rotating assembly in a daily driver S10. In the off chance the 6.0 fails, Ill just do up another one and have about 6 bills in the swap and we'll roll it again. They are just a solid platform from the get go. Yes, there is room to improve the bottom half, like any...But in stock production form they are tough, that cant be argued.

 

[orodi]

Now, not sure if I agree with everything daverr is saying and I'm not claiming to be a wizz by any means but I suggest you look up torque multiplication and how torque is multiplied depending on the final drive ratio.

I get where you are going however what my main point was is that you cannot "create" more torque out of a motor without changing the motor output itself. The only thing that changing the final drive will do is lessen the loos of power from the engine to the wheels. So yes you can raise your tourque numbers but the powertrain itself is not creating anymore than it was you are only in reality loosing less.

 

[orodi]

Now, not sure if I agree with everything daverr is saying and I'm not claiming to be a wizz by any means but I suggest you look up torque multiplication and how torque is multiplied depending on the final drive ratio.

Also what you are refering to deals with torque converters but you still will not create any more power

 

[Danno]

What I was talking about doesn't have anything to do with a torque converter. It happens in any type of gearing.

Think about it this way, if you have a small wrench on a bolt and your trying to move it at 100 ft/lbs torque, it will be hard to do. If you go with a bigger wrench, it will be easier to tighten the bolt to the same torque. Same thing with gearing. If you change the gears, it will take a lot less energy to move the car depending on the gearing.

Torque is force x distance.

Lets say you have 210 ft/lbs of torque and use a 3:1 gear ratio, it will multiply the torque by 3, giving you 630 ft/lbs of torque.

 

[orodi]

What I was talking about doesn't have anything to do with a torque converter. It happens in any type of gearing.

Think about it this way, if you have a small wrench on a bolt and your trying to move it at 100 ft/lbs torque, it will be hard to do. If you go with a bigger wrench, it will be easier to tighten the bolt to the same torque. Same thing with gearing. If you change the gears, it will take a lot less energy to move the car depending on the gearing.

Torque is force x distance.

Lets say you have 210 ft/lbs of torque and use a 3:1 gear ratio, it will multiply the torque by 3, giving you 630 ft/lbs of torque.

Yes I understand how gearing appliesto using available torque so I think were having a misunderstanding. I am talking about the actual numbers taking the same numbers if you have a car on the dyno that puts 210ft/lbs of torque to the wheel no matter what you do to the gearing you will still remain at 210ft/lbs of torque. Granted how the car applies the torque will change i.e. quicker or faster on the top end, but you will never raise the actual the troque output of the motor without changing the motor output itself.