Normal? Or is my O2 sensor going bad?

["Turbo-T"]

Took a 230 + road trip today. I had the cruise set on 60 and noticed on my Scanmaster the 02 millivolts were jumping around all over the place....from as low as 097 to in the 700's.

Not sure if this is normal or if this indicates my 02 sensor needs replaced. Does anyone know?

Thanks!

 

[86 TR]

Sounds like a healthly 02 sensor to me.

 

[johnnyttype]

X2 on the healthy o2!

 

[NJ Torque]

Thats fine..... the car coming in and out of PE mode...

 

["Turbo-T"]

Thanks I wasn't sure why the numbers were all over the map.

Also one other question, I noticed the knock retard seems to only read something (other than 0.0) if I gun it...hard...I'm talking pedal to the floor....I'm guessing this is normal and about the only time it's going to retard....for the extra boost? How many degrees should it usually retard for 15 lbs? I've gotten anywhere from 2. something up to 5.1 I think.

Thanks again.

 

[2QUIK6]

Thanks I wasn't sure why the numbers were all over the map.

Also one other question, I noticed the knock retard seems to only read something (other than 0.0) if I gun it...hard...I'm talking pedal to the floor....I'm guessing this is normal and about the only time it's going to retard....for the extra boost? How many degrees should it usually retard for 15 lbs? I've gotten anywhere from 2. something up to 5.1 I think.

Thanks again.

You don't want any knock retard. Thats bad on the bearing and if severe enough can blow a head gasket or hammer your rod/crank bearing to death. Optimally you want 0 knock, but with less than ideal gas you may see 1 or 2 degrees at 15# boost if not filling with 93 octane gas. You either need to always make sure you have good 93 gas, or have some timing removed from the chip so it doesn't get any knock.

On the O2 sensor, if you notice it sticking on the same mv for more than a couple of seconds at op temp idle or cruise then its time to get a new AC Delco or Denso sensor. Bosch sensors don't seem to last very long for me in these cars. If you can see the O2 Cross-counts, those should cycle from 0-255 in less than 90 seconds at idle with a healthy O2...if it takes longer than its time for a new. The cross-count is how many times it bounces back and forth pass lambda...the perfect AFR reading..the ECM basically "averages" the readings bouncing back and forth to determine the fuel adjustment...has nothing to do with being in PE mode (power enrichment)..then the readings do get fairly constant but the ECM does not look at the O2 while in PE mode.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

So you got about 17 MPG? 230 miles?

 

["Turbo-T"]

You don't want any knock retard. Thats bad on the bearing and if severe enough can blow a head gasket or hammer your rod/crank bearing to death. Optimally you want 0 knock, but with less than ideal gas you may see 1 or 2 degrees at 15# boost if not filling with 93 octane gas. You either need to always make sure you have good 93 gas, or have some timing removed from the chip so it doesn't get any knock.

Ok I am a little confused. I only run 93 octane in my car. I usually run Citgo or Hess or Texaco fuel. For the most part I've never seen the knock retard display any numbers unless I'm really getting on it. But you say this is bad? (shoot I thought it means the ECM was automaticly retarding the ignition for the added boost )

So you got about 17 MPG? 230 miles?

Oh I do not know, on my trip I stopped into a gas station because someone called my cell when I was maybe 30 miles into the trip, car was at half tank but decided to fill up, then I drove the car another 70 miles, then took the inlaws out and showed them how cool the car was (my nephews loved it, only got her up to 107 mph and the road was a curvy country road with deer so then I slowed down) and drove the car another 114 miles back home. I think I still have another half tank of fuel maybe.

 

[2QUIK6]

For the most part I've never seen the knock retard display any numbers unless I'm really getting on it. But you say this is bad? (shoot I thought it means the ECM was automaticly retarding the ignition for the added boost ) .

No.. The ECM only removes timing when it "hears" knock, which means its already doing damage so it pulls timing to reduce the knock. Now, don't get overly alarmed, I have several hundered passes with a degree or 2 of knock, any more than that I get concerned...a few times with 4-8 degrees "probably" will not hurt anything, but do not let it do that everytime.

What chip are you running? Do you know how much timing advance is being commanded at WOT? With pump gas you don't want any more than 19 degrees usually, depending on the rest of the setup...stock IC doesn't cool the charge enough for any more than that...yet the stock chip commands about 25 degrees...waaay too much for todays crap gas.

Alky is your best friend now days to run higher boost and 0 knock retard...so says alky and driving don't mix

 

["Turbo-T"]

What chip are you running? Do you know how much timing advance is being commanded at WOT? With pump gas you don't want any more than 19 degrees usually, depending on the rest of the setup...stock IC doesn't cool the charge enough for any more than that...yet the stock chip commands about 25 degrees...waaay too much for todays crap gas.

From what I've gathered it's a Jay Carter chip, this coming from the last owner. Jay is a member here and I PM'ed him to find out more about the chip, so far he has yet to respond.

So I should expect to see 2 on the retard at WOT; anything more than that is an issue? Also a Scanmaster 2.1 records a typical WOT pass correct?

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

From what I've gathered it's a Jay Carter chip, this coming from the last owner. Jay is a member here and I PM'ed him to find out more about the chip, so far he has yet to respond.

So I should expect to see 2 on the retard at WOT; anything more than that is an issue? Also a Scanmaster 2.1 records a typical WOT pass correct?

Im pretty sure that chip doesnt have the fast update, so your seeing a max knock count every 3.0 seconds.

You need a fast update chip, at least it will display the bad numbers sooner

BW

 

[2QUIK6]

From what I've gathered it's a Jay Carter chip, this coming from the last owner. Jay is a member here and I PM'ed him to find out more about the chip, so far he has yet to respond.

So I should expect to see 2 on the retard at WOT; anything more than that is an issue? Also a Scanmaster 2.1 records a typical WOT pass correct?

I would "expect" to see 0...1 or 2 sometimes would be ok if it were my car. By having knock, you're not getting the most from your car IMO.
JayC street chips typically have 19 degree, at least all the ones I have seen. But, make sure its a "street" chip and not a "race" chip which is for higher octane race fuel. I'd say if you have a stock Ic and stock size turbo, then maybe 18 degrees might work better for you.

Not sure what you mean by the ScanMaster recording a typical WOT pass? I don't use a SM, so if it records I have no idea, it use to not be able to record and playback.

 

[ChavoLC2]

Knock

Knock is not your friend. You need to tune your car for zero knock at WOT or you will join the HG replacement Club or worse. The SM will only record 02mv as well as KR at just over 1/2 throtle then you can hit recall. Your fortunate you didn't blow her up with 15 degrees of KR. These motors can take alot of abuse but only so much till a head lifts. I'd stay out of it till you find out what's causing 15kr. And if you are going to run Boost greater then 15lbs on Pump Gas you should/better consider getting a Alky system . Get her tuned before you join the CLUB.

 

["Turbo-T"]

What's KR?

 

[SS/GNX]

KR = Knock retard...

you dont want ANY knock.... at all. Find out how to adjust that chip and pull some timing out at WOT.

Or do like ChavoLC2 said and get some alky for some added insurance and performance, but you will probably need to get a chip tuned for the alky...

 

[Blown&Injected]

KR is not that big a deal in a stock or close to stock engine. Before I started modding the car - always had some mods - but real go fast mods, I wondered why the car would not go faster when I cranked up the boost with pump gas.

From 1986 to about 1996 and for 200,000 miles I knocked the hell out of my engine = no KR related problems, actually no problems at all.

After cranking it way up I learned the hard way that KR is nothing to take lightly - but for a stock engine, I know it does not warrant all the alarm.

 

["Turbo-T"]

Find out how to adjust that chip and pull some timing out at WOT.

Silly question but are the chips really adjustable? I've never done it, heck how would I go about doing it?

Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying that basicly I need to retard the timing some at WOT?

Also would one of those little LED knock gauges be quicker/more accurate in detecting knock as opposed to the Scanmaster?

 

[Blown&Injected]

Some chips are - call Eric at TURBOTWEAK

 

[2QUIK6]

Silly question but are the chips really adjustable? I've never done it, heck how would I go about doing it?

Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying that basicly I need to retard the timing some at WOT?

Also would one of those little LED knock gauges be quicker/more accurate in detecting knock as opposed to the Scanmaster?

Your JayC chip is not adjustable. Turbotweak chips are and are highly recommended as well if you want to continue with a basic chip style setup. They are very easy to adjust by watching specific BLM cell numbers (which I'm not sure you can do with a ScanMaster come to think of it...doesn't it just display the current BLM cell being used?? )

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

First, i would find out what your goals are going to be with the car.

I dont think you should first go out and buy erics chip, and then 3 months from now decide you want to upgrade injectors and then buy ANOTHER chip lol

If it was me, first i would go to the parts wanted section and post asking if someone had a good used set of 009 42.5 lb injectors. Ive purchased 2 sets in the last year, and both sets were around 125 to 150 with Red armstrong chips. Of course those chips are collecting dust right now haha.

Second i would decide if i wanted to step up the game, and get around 70 more horsepower all the time with a methanol kit. Julio Dons kit is the best Alkycontrol

Third i would order a methanol injection chip from Eric for the 009s, OR you can keep the blue tops. But that combo might be your limiting factor on how large of a turbo you want to go with.

Last, i would run 2 gallons of xylene and a splash of tranny fluid in a full tank of fuel to clean the injectors. I would also port the stock elbow and upgrade to a simple 3 inch downpipe like Kirban sells.

I only say to get the 009s is right now they are a cheap set of injectors and you can run up to around a 61 series turbo on alky.

There is just so much you can do with these cars, it gets addictive!
BW