Need Help, Electrical Question

[Boost231]

Ok, yes its a hotair car but that shouldn't matter. anyways so i went out and worked on my car this weekend. i was having poping issues so i converted my 25 year old coil pack and module to an 87 setup. i also added a ccci hotwire as well. i changed out my old fuel pump with a new one and my old hotwire to a new one as well. anyways i took the car out at night to check and make sure the poping was fixed. made on pass and it was fine. made another with more boost it was fine. thats the basics,well at the topend of that pull the VOLT light came on, on the dash. Then the headlights flickered off, i clicked the high beams on, they turned on, then flickered off. i do have the caspers headlight hotwire harness which wires straight to the back of the alternator. i pulled off the side of the road and left it running, (volts light still on) looked under the hood at the wiring and didnt see anything crazy. kinda had a weird smell but couldn't figure it out. so i drove it home with the flashers behind another buick. parking lights worked,flashers and brake lights worked as well. got home shut it off and saw the optima red top battery was leaking out the vent. pulled the battery out as fast as i could. i changed the battery out and then tryed to figure out what happened to the headlights. well after trying to figure it out all 4 headlights where burned out? voltage spike? so i put new headlights in it and they worked, started the car now the smell came back. alternator was making a really bad noise and started making a burning smell checked the voltage at the alternator and it was putting of 13.* volts. so i shut it off and removed the belt. car ran fine no smell or noise so its the alternator. So for the question

The alternator is a turbobuicks.com 140amp. TurboBuicks.com Store: TurboBuicks.com 140AMP Alternator for '84-'85 Grand National, Grand National Hardware, TBS900 its about 2 years old but maybe has 2,000 miles on it

The battery is a optima red top thats about 7 years old. always on a battery tender and has never been a problem for me. (lets not make this a optima bashing thread)

So what happend? did the alternator have a voltage spike then die, thus causing the battery to over charge and bust and start leaking?

or did the battery take a crap and then the alternator try to put a load on it and then it failed?

Im guessing the headlights took a crap since there straight hotwired to the alternator. So with that being said im guessing the alternator gave out had a voltage spike blew the lights out then overcharged the battey causing to to pop?

please help. as of right now the car has no alternator in it (plan on sending my turbobuicks.com one back for a rebuild maybe) nor does it have a battery. so what do you guys think? i think the alternator took a **** killing my $100 headlights and my $200 battery. what do you think?

sorry for the long post. if there is any electrical gurus pleas pm me your # or call me if that is better for you.

Thanks

 

[mtocrs1]

Short to ground?

This could have gone down multiple ways but first I will ask a basic question. Is everything aftermarket going to the back of the alternator fused? So does the headlight hotwire kit have a fuse in between the alternator and headlights? My guess is that there is a short to ground somewhere causing the alternator to overcharge. Where were you measuring your 13* volts at? Battery or right of the alternator?

I guess the voltage regulator could have also went bad and overcharged like a mofo when in the high RPMS?

 

[Boost231]

only thing to pop was the headlights. thats the one harness thats going to the back of the alternator that isnt fused. everything else is fused. also the 13.* volts was meassured at the back of the alternator while it was running. i have never had this problem car was running fine and this happend out of the blue.

i was thinking the same thing about the voltage regulator. the motor was at 6250 when it happend.

 

[mtocrs1]

If you rev the engine up now what kind of voltage do you get? If the regulator went bad it will still be bad and should be easy to tell. I am not familiar with the caspers headlight kit but if it is shorted even through the bulb itself it could have possibly put a huge load on the alternator causing essentially a short to ground. It should be fused.

 

[Boost231]

alternator and battery are out of the car now so i cant tell you that.

i will test the alternator out tomorrow at the autoparts store. what kind of fuse should i wire into it?

i put the new lights on the car and kept the headlight hotwire on and it worked fine no shorting out or poped bulbs so i wouldnt think there would be a short. no?

if there was a short i would think they would pop again?

 

[Boost231]

this is what i came up with from some reasearch. kinda sounds like my problem.

sounds like a bad cell in the battery...alternator over stressed trying to force the battery to take a charge when the battery internal resistance was extremely high due to the bad cell...that is my guess. Alternator overheated, hurt the rectifier and probably more.

It is very hard on alternators when they have to charge a weak battery....one with a bad cell really loads them.

 

[garyk1970]

sounds like you were on the right track to me......by what youve told i agree that the alt reg went bad (afterwards went out then the battery light came on)over charged/voltage(evident by the battery discarging fluid/gel) and blew the lights(another high volt clue),wasted the battery.....also explains the killed cell in the battery too....no fuse will help much with voltage,just shorts to ground imo.....
replace battery/alt/bulbs.....keep a close eye on the computer and other electronics,check the fuseable links (at starter) for damage ...just a freek thing...sounds like my luck....

 

[Boost231]

i did take a quick peak at the fusable link area and they looked ok. i would have to look hard to make sure.

so i was thinking right. so time for a new alternator and battery as well as head lights.great more money.

i will put cheap headlights,alt,battery in drive the car and test it out. then i will put the good alternator, battery and lights in once everything checks out for sure.

What amp fuse so i put inline for the headlights. that will save another set of silverstars if it does it again for some freak reason.

Thanks for the help. guess i had it figured out

 

[garyk1970]

i did take a quick peak at the fusable link area and they looked ok. i would have to look hard to make sure.

so i was thinking right. so time for a new alternator and battery as well as head lights.great more money.

i will put cheap headlights,alt,battery in drive the car and test it out. then i will put the good alternator, battery and lights in once everything checks out for sure.

What amp fuse so i put inline for the headlights. that will save another set of silverstars if it does it again for some freak reason.

Thanks for the help. guess i had it figured out

the fuseable links are very hard to check,but they can burn off their sheild (possible what you smelled or just the alt itself) and the problem is they touch and it takes more to short them and protect the car (they turn into one big "fuse")....probably ok.....ohm out the main charge wire from alt to starter...should be close to 0 ohms.....a bad charge cable can stress your alt....if i put a 140amp alt on a vehicle,i will run an additional charge cable directally to battery (at least 4 ga)...
take a volt meter and do a amp test on headlights to see what size fuse is needed...my guess is 10-15 a ?
the problem is (if im thinking right) is when voltage increases,amps decrese...so a good fuse at 13v wont help at 15+ volts....confused yet?

 

[mtocrs1]

Let us know how the alternator tests. It will be interesting to see if the voltage regulator is bad. That should give us direction to go. Fuse is dependant on the wire size?

 

[Boost231]

no i understand, the smell was the alternator for sure. car seemed fine with a new battery on it just running of the battery alternator disconnected, no smell no sound. now if the fuseable link went then the headlights wouldnt work from what i know. im pretty sure the fuseable links are fine. now i do have the caspers battery wire CEI - Casper's Electronics, Inc. but i will check the ohms on the postive to the battery and see what it looks like. if needed i will add a bigger gauge wire.

 

[Boost231]

i will let you know. before i took it off the car it had a burning smell but was putting of 13.* volts. case looked like it got hot. if i remember right it was putting of 14.* volts prior to this all happening so 13.* is lower then it was before

 

[garyk1970]

Let us know how the alternator tests. It will be interesting to see if the voltage regulator is bad. That should give us direction to go. Fuse is dependant on the wire size?

wire gage size is determined by amps and the length of the wire....fuse is determined by the max amps of the circuit...

no i understand, the smell was the alternator for sure. car seemed fine with a new battery on it just running of the battery alternator disconnected, no smell no sound. now if the fuseable link went then the headlights wouldnt work from what i know. im pretty sure the fuseable links are fine. now i do have the caspers battery wire CEI - Casper's Electronics, Inc. but i will check the ohms on the postive to the battery and see what it looks like. if needed i will add a bigger gauge wire.

yes.

 

[Boost231]

getting the alternator tested right now.

 

[Boost231]

the battery i have tests good. the alternator however is bad

the alternator was tested at 2 places. as soon as the load comes up the machines say fail. it will only run on the machine for about 5 secs then it will fail. one side you can see in the middle where the fins are per say where the cases come together are dis-colored and the other side is not.

 

[mtocrs1]

Right, Maybe that wasnt EE correct but this is what I was getting at. If you know the gage of the wire you know the max amps the wire can handle.... So now he can choose a fuse:smile:

 

[dynoman]

You can determine the wire and fuse size by totaling up the wattage of the lights ( 4 headlights @ 55 watts = 220 watts, divided by 12 volts = 18.33amps.) Use 12 gage wire good for 20 amps and 20 amp fuse to protect the wire. Good luck, Sam (GM automation maintenance electrician)

 

[Boost231]

sam, so since your a gm automation maintenance electrician what do you think about my problem?

bad cell caused max output on alternator causing headlights to pop do to max volts and amps being sent out, then driving the car home under this condition over heated the alternator then causing it to fail?

 

[dynoman]

It sounds to me like garyk1970 is on the money. The alternator killed the lights and battery due to over voltage. It's to bad because even being fused correctly the overvoltage still would have killed your lights. I would install a voltmeter like a cyberdyne that has a digital display and high /low warning function to monitor that alternator.