Yes, and no, Rick. By puting the GNX bushings in you do stiffen up the chasis quite a bit but if you have the springs I posted above then you have a bit more jarring going on. The sensatracks are ok as far as a shock goes and that may be part of the issue as well. Did you put the bushings in before or after you changed the shocks?
Moog 5658 front spring results
- Thread starter jdpolzin
- Start date
I put the bushings in before I changed the shocks. I thought the shocks would soften the ride but they didn't. I had Koni shocks on before, which came with the car. I guess it's mostly springs, shocks, or bushings that affect ride quality, right?
What most don't get is it's a system. Just changing one thing can screw the whole thing up Rick The bushings insulate the chasis from the body and the whole things relies on the springs to be suspended and the shocks to control the shock of the road and provide a decent ride. I'd almost bet the springs are to heavy for the chasis right now Rick. Can you measure the ride height to see what it is at this point? It's measured behind the front wheels and in front of the rear wheels at the rocker panels. It should be between 9 & 1/8" to 10 & 5/8" and make sure to add for different wheels and tires that aren't stock.
Loosen your front swaybar endlinks. Start with the basics. Sensatrac shocks are fine. Bushings in the chassis are fine. Moog stock replacement springs are fine. Body bracing is fine. If it's riding that stiff, you have something else going on.
If you've ever looked at the top plate where the spring sits it has 2 recesses, not just 1. The second recess will hold the spring in fine. The reason I can say this is because of the (sorry) dirt track cars that I've worked on over the years. It's not as deep as the pigtail style but even with the guys on the track they don't get dislodged easily.
Pronto
Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2002
Cool! I've seen the peg but not the second recess (never had a reason to look close at the area). Got a general idea how much the 6377 will lower the rear?
Pronto
Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2002
Didn't know if you meant only the fronts. I want to see if I can find a local circle track guy that has 4 wheel scales and would weigh out my car. I'd be interested in that. I have weighed my car at NED but that is a bridge style whole car scale.
Nope, the whole car will drop and with the calculations I did you should have about a 1/2" lower in the front so you have a slight rake to the car and it won't screw up the launch since it's pretty even.
696
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2009
So by going thru allllll the info in this thread it looks like most springs are going to raise our cars because of the stockers being worn out..I can see that. Think I'll shoot for 5658's with Howe tall lower ball joints and 5413's for the rear.
Does the 5660 raise the front as compared to the 5658? I know they are suppose to be the same height but with it being a heavier duty spring with the car not drop as much?
Does the 5660 raise the front as compared to the 5658? I know they are suppose to be the same height but with it being a heavier duty spring with the car not drop as much?
I would stick with the duralast spring in the rear. I've been having excellent results with them. As far as mounted height of the 5660s I can't answer that because I haven't used them, I believe they are the stock replacement part number for our cars? The best thing to do would be to find someone that has used them and measure, don't just compare listed spring stats and hope for the best because all springs are inconsistant. The 5658s have worked great for me well over 30 times now. Depending how low you want to go, most people don't even need to do the lower ball joints, those are for people thar need that extra little bit! They do help the curve too!
The 5660 isn't a stock replacement for our cars, the 5600 is. The 5660 is rated at 598 lbs/in and the free height is 13.26". The 5600 has a rate of 347 lbs/in and a free height of 15.63" Big diference in rates and heights.
As far as the rears go the stock spring is 5379 and rated at 122 lbs/in with a free height of 14.75". The 5413 is rated at 167 lbs/in and a free height of 12.93". Do you have a rating for the AZ spring Jeremy? Just wondering how they stack up in comparison.
The 6377 has a rate of 141 lbs/in and a free height of 13.69" so it's a little closer to the stock rate and will still give you a decent ride as well let the rear squat and give you some decent traction.
As far as the rears go the stock spring is 5379 and rated at 122 lbs/in with a free height of 14.75". The 5413 is rated at 167 lbs/in and a free height of 12.93". Do you have a rating for the AZ spring Jeremy? Just wondering how they stack up in comparison.
The 6377 has a rate of 141 lbs/in and a free height of 13.69" so it's a little closer to the stock rate and will still give you a decent ride as well let the rear squat and give you some decent traction.
The Duralast rating is the same as the Moog for the rear but the Moog has sat higher than the Duralst everytime I've installed them (4 times now). I have stopped using the stock replacement Moogs and just went with the Duralast. Now the Duralast 5658's have sat higher than the Moog 5658's twice now. So a mix between the two seems to work very well.
How about pics of the 5600 installed in a car? Or how about somebody that has installed these in our cars that can give us measurements? We can be like Geico and compare rates all day long but I'd like to see how they look and feel in our cars.
So far the 5658's have my vote 100% and are tried and true and installed and tested by me, many times on many different set ups. I'd like to see a little more detail on other springs that others have installed in their Turbo Regal and get some feedback.
How about pics of the 5600 installed in a car? Or how about somebody that has installed these in our cars that can give us measurements? We can be like Geico and compare rates all day long but I'd like to see how they look and feel in our cars.
So far the 5658's have my vote 100% and are tried and true and installed and tested by me, many times on many different set ups. I'd like to see a little more detail on other springs that others have installed in their Turbo Regal and get some feedback.
That doesn't suprise me considering they're mass produced and the variance in manufacturing is pretty normal these days. It usually takes several months for them to settle down to the proper height as well. You can compensate on the alignment if you know how to set it right though so you don't have to take it back to the shop, unless you're willing to deal with a warrenty on an alignment of course.
The 5600 is the stock spring Jeremy, are you talking about the 5660?
Can't argue on the 5658's at all for the spring rate but there will be some that think it's a little to harsh. That's why I offerend up the 5608's since it increases the rate fron the 347 lbs/in to 424 lbs/in and a free height of 14.88" over the stock height of 15.63" inches. It will still drop the heights and if you want to take 1/2 to 3/4 of a coil off you'd be at the same heights as the 5658's.
scot w.
GNSperformance.com
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
I can give some more detail on other springs that have been installed on our cars! I have been watching this thread from the beginning and the one problem I keep seeing with these moog springs is that they are never consistent and many people are un happy with the results of the stance in one way or another, hell I even thought about offering these to our customers but as a vendor I surely do not want to go through the hassle of customers not getting the results they are looking for and dealing with the inconsistency of those springs.
Out of all the sales & installs of DSE coil springs over the past few years we have not had One single complaint on the ride height or the ride quality! I have these on my car and would be more than happy to give ride height measurements if need be... I have given people I don't even know numerous rides in my car at Buick events and All of them are "shocked" at how well it handles and rides for it being lowered like it is...
The DSE (front) spring rate is 575 lbs & the (rear) spring rate is 125 lbs..... It is a 2" drop (From stock ride height specs) and usually drops customers cars just what they are looking for, around a 1" drop from where it usually sits with the stock springs... The beauty of the DSE 2" drop springs is the fact that DSE makes a replacement gas shock that is valved to match the springs rate and even the timing of the jounce bumpers inside the shock have all been done by DSE to optimize the performance and ride quality.. So now a customer can buy both and get a much better ride quality and performance than if one were to mismatch springs and shocks. Don't forget I am auto-crossing with just DSE coil springs and gas shocks and still placing mid field out of 80+ true pro-touring cars, that's pretty impressive! No coil overs Yet.....
Here is a picture of one of our customers that recently installed DSE 2" drop springs & their replacement gas shocks...
I havent had any inconsistancy with the 5658's. They have worked everytime for me 30+ times now. 9 times out of ten, people have installed the spring incorrectly or they expect it to lower the car lower than their stock worn out 25 year old springs. Not real sure what DSE springs have to do with 5658's but since you brought it up, not everyone wants to pay the price for DSE springs and not everyone wants their car laying on the ground like the one you just posted a picture of. I do, but some people dont. When I posted this thread, it was to show my results so people can see what could be accomplished without buying Eibach, Hotchkis, etc. If I installed DSE's front springs in any of the cars, besides my own, the owners would not have been happy with the results becuase these people dont want their front end on the ground or their rear for that matter. Everyone wants a mid level, lower than stock, good riding, ride height. Some of us guys like them to be slammed but not everyone. Maybe you should see of DSE will make a mid level ride height spring that you could try to sell?
We are talking two different worlds here.
scot w.
GNSperformance.com
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
I'm sorry, I thought you said " I'd like to see a little more detail on other springs that others have installed in their Turbo Regal and get some feedback" and you brought up Duralast springs so I didn't think it was just a moog thread anymore plus when you mentioned the above statement I thought it was for "Other springs" like you mentioned so I gave my feedback.....
Not everyone wants their car to sit higher than it did either or take their front springs in and more than once....People want to get it right the first time because as you know replacing the front coil springs isn't the easiest thing to do for the average customer...Most have to Pay to have it done which in turn adds more cost when not right the first time or satisfied with the outcome...
Laying on the ground? The DSE springs will only drop a car roughly 1" from the old worn out stock springs which don't lay the car on the ground by any means. You interested in the cars measurements to see just how low it Really is? I am sure I can get that info for you....
SW.
