Low 12's for 300 bucks???

[Tom R.]

I'm looking to purchase a low mileage '87 Grand National and I want to run along with or by vettes, stangs and anything else that thnks its quick. Anyhow, the buickpower.com site claims you can take a stock '87 G.N. and get it into low 12's for 300 bucks. Is this really possible and if so at what risk?

 

[Kevin Turch]

Check out gnttype.org
lots of recipies there
HTH
Kevin

 

[BLACK6PACK]

I don't know about low 12s, high 12s are easy, all it takes is turning up the boost, putting in some c116 and launching it like there is no tomorrow!

There are several small mods you will want to do to the car before you try this, so that you don't blow it up.

The first thing to do is get a scan tool!!!!
Then you will want a new fuel pump, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, good exhaust, and a K&N.

I would also think about timing chain/gears and valve springs.

 

[c&cgn]

Not for $300

IMO, no. Not for $300. It is not really that hard to get there, but you will have to spend more than that. First off, you need the Fuel pump, hotwire and adj FPR. Then you need traction (slicks preferably) so you can launch with boost. Then you will need a dump pipe if you have ths stock exhaust. You also need a K&N and a suitable race chip and leaded race gas. Just those mods combined will be over $300. At least up here in Canuckville they sure would be.

Plan on about $1000 to do all of the basics properly and you will have a nice running mostly stock GN that will do 12's without much problem.

 

[d0n_3d]

check out my website...it doesn't cost much to run low 12's...but 300 bucks is a dream world...1000 is more like it!

still a hell of a lot cheaper than most cars

 

[Spoolinup]

I love these, $300 and my buick does this. The buicks are the cheapest to get going, but $300 will get you the scan tool you need to get there. And to get 12's on a stock buick with only $300 in it is asking for $4000 in repairs at the end of that run.

Power plate=$60
Manual boost controller=$50
Test pipe=$50
Afpr=$100
The list is long, but to get low 12's on a stock turbo your going to need street slicks and those alone are $350 a set.

$1000 is probably even to low a figure for low 12's, maybe high 12's for a G.

But if you do get one, this is the car that can get somewhere fast for cheap, just maybe not as cheap as on dreamybuicks.com.

 

[KEVINS]

I agree that $300 may be a bit cheap but it also depends on who's parts list you are looking at. I don't consider slicks and wheels part of that list because I automaically know I'm going to need them. I look at the engine mods required to run a given ET.

I have about $700 in mine to run the times in my sig not including wheels/tires. Add an additional $300 for NEW wheels and $350 for NEW slicks..

ks

 

[Spoolinup]

Kevin, is that time the stock turbo?

But in my opinion, any money spent to go fast on a part has to be included. To me, only the good gas is a tax writeable deletion.

And you can run 255/60/15 drags on the stock rims and get a decent lauch with the bags. New rims would be way to pricey and not worth it at that level.

But this is the car to do it in

By the way, Kevin, are you using the heated 02 with the 110 all the time?

 

[KEVINS]

The times in my sig were with a POS turbo from an International Desiel Tractor! This thing was JUNK!

My combo went through some changes, chasing the slow spoolup problem and bad fuel pressure problems (that turbo needed 80+psi of fuel psi to run w/o KR) that was found to be from that tractor turbo. So currently my new combo consists of a stock turbo, ME 16 pos, and a 62mm TB and went 12.16 @ 108mph @ 22-23psi of boost 2 weeks ago w/o locking the converter and 60's that were .1+ seconds off of the norm. I have high hopes for 11's this summer with the stock turbo and IC.

Since I use a ME I don't need a O2 sensor..

hths a bit..
ks

 

[Tom R.]

12's for 300 bucks???

Thanks for the quick responses guys. I guess I should have added a little more to the post. I'm not gonna run the car down the strip, its gonna be a street car. I don't like slicks and I really don't even like ET streets. I want to retain the stock wheels if I can. So, can I get into the 12's on stock street trim? I'm not opposed to bigger tires but I still would like to keep the stock wheels!

 

[KEVINS]

I agree about the stock wheels.. To me that's what makes the GN's noticable or not look like a monte carlo/olds cutlas, etc. I still retain mine along with the factory exhaust...

ks

 

[c&cgn]

Re: 12's for 300 bucks???

Originally posted by Tom R.
Thanks for the quick responses guys. I guess I should have added a little more to the post. I'm not gonna run the car down the strip, its gonna be a street car. I don't like slicks and I really don't even like ET streets. I want to retain the stock wheels if I can. So, can I get into the 12's on stock street trim? I'm not opposed to bigger tires but I still would like to keep the stock wheels!

Sure you can do 12's in street trim but now it will definately take way more than $1000. Change the slicks to BFG drag radials, add a TA49 or TE44 turbo, bigger injectors, a 3" downpipe and good flowing exhaust and probably add a V4 intercooler for good measure. That should be enough for 12's in street trim on pump gas.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Slap an alky injection kit on there and you won't be able to wipe the smile off your face, every time you get in the car. There is nothing like running 22lbs of boost on 93 octane. All the power all the time!!

 

[GS70350]

ok, heres what you do to run 12s. at least one of the ways to do it. buy used parts, thats cheaper, or parts off ebay, hehe. buy a K&N filter, and remove the factory air box, or if you dont have money for that, run it without the air box at the strip ONLY. buy a used race chip at the nats, one with high timing, stock injectors, that works with race fuel and higher boost. ive seen them for pretty cheap. 25 bucks or so was a common price. thrasher 108 chips are 27 bucks new shipped. the K&N is around 40 bucks. go to GNTTYPE.org and get the instructions to make your wastegate adjustable, costs 3 bucks or so supposedly, and turn the boost up. borrow someones 26x10 inch slicks, to use at the strip. block off your throttle body coolant lines with some old heater hose from the garage, and 2 small hose clamps. thats free if you got lots of junk like me. buy a 7 dollar 160 degree thermostat also. take off your intercooler and clean it out with some mineral spirits, and after its all dry inside, put it back on. put a breather in the passenger side valve cover, and block off the vent to the turbo. vents are like, 5 bucks at auto zone, and the plug is cheap too, say, 2 bucks. buy a power plate(the real thing, make sure its real) for 60 bucks. unbolt your exhaust from the catalytic converter, gut it, and then at the strip, run it open. borrow a scan tool from someone, and tune it right, and you should hit easy 12s, for pretty cheap, very cheap compared to most cars, but this is only if you have alot of friends with scan tools, slicks you can borrow, etc. if you have access to a die grinder like me, you can remove your throttle body, knife edge the inlet, do the same to the intercooler, and turbocharger. some power can be had there. thats about all i can think of right now. but if you do those things, you will hit 12s for sure.
here is a tally of all the things to do
intercooler flush--5 bucks of mineral spirits
coolant lines--free hopefully
intercooler screen--free to remove
160 degree therm.--7 bucks
race chip--25 bucks
race fuel--40 bucks for about 8 gallons or so
porting work--free if you have tools, just need time.
power plate--60 bucks
gut cat--free
K&N filter--40 bucks--or just run it no filter at all(not on street)
scan tool--borrow
wastegate made adjustable--3 bucks
valve cover vent and plug-- 8 bucks
slicks--borrow

total cost here is around 200 bucks. that depends on wether or not you can borrow stuff.
hope that helps you hit the 12 second barrier and sorry for such a long post

 

[8UWITH6]

You forgot a Fuel Pump.....I would NEVER consider WOTing a TR that hasnt had the fuel pump replaced........ just my .02

 

[gnx7]

You stated you plan to drive the car a lot on the street right?

If your car is 100% stock

Here is my recipe that I would do:

Walbro 340 (255lph) fuel pump $120 or so
K&N air filter $40
30/30 boost/vacuum guage $50
adjust. wastegate rod (thread it and add a nut to make adj) $2
test pipe (eliminates cat and looks like a "Y" with the straight section going to the exhaust, and a side outlet with a cap to bypass the exhaust when upcapped) $40 from Summit + labor
Cotton's single 3" exhaust $299 I think
coolant throttlebody bypass lines (loop 1 line around to the other on the water heater lines on the passenger side valvecover) free
new ACDelco CR43TS plugs $1.50 each
new AC Delco wires $25
alchy injection chip 21degrees $50
SMC alchy injection kit $350 (allows 91 octane to be run and injects alchy under boost therefore allowing 21-22psi on stock turbo without having to run racefuel 116 or 100 octane gas.
Scan Tool allows you to tune the car and see any knock or error codes to identify problems before they happen:
ScanMaster $249 size of a radar detect. + gives basic tuning info
or TurboLink $169 but requires a cheap laptop to run

Last but not least.... if this is a street car don't get BFG DR's as they handle like crap. I would advise 275/50/15 Nitto Drag Radials on the stock GN rims (my friend runs them with no problems and has run 11.80s on them). I have them and have run 11.70's on them. They work well in the rain, handle good, and with a healthy burnout they hook like a mofo.

As others have said.... there are shortcuts in the beginning... but they may bite you in the ass and you will pay 10x more later.

A good one to reference your build up off of... 11's for $1500:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/recipes/foxrecipe.html
ps= you don't need the downpipe or modded upper plenum

add an RJC power plate though $59
http://www.loveridgemachine.com/RJC_Buick_Products/RJC_AD_Power_Plate/rjc_ad_power_plate.html

All the other recipes:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/recipes/recipepage.html

Good luck,

GNX7

 

[GS70350]

crap. i knew i was forgetting something when i wrote that. the most important part, the fuel pump. get one from caspers electronics. 45GPH at 70 psi fuel pump compared to the stocker at 36GPH and 55 PSI or somethin, its 60 bucks too, which is cheaper than a walbro 340 and you can go well into the 11s with 45 GPH. that brings it to 260 to get into the 12s for my little recipe.

 

[galoush]

12 s for 3 bills

Well considering that c-16 gas is like $45.00 for 5 gallons , and the O2s your gonna waste if your continually driving on the stuff , $300 is going to go fast , lets face it it costs money to race cars but that really isnt the point is it , other wise no one would be here.

 

[strikeeagle]

You missed a zero...

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Follow GNX7's recipe. Its a very good one.