Lots A Hot Air Bashin Lately! WHAT IS GOING ON!!!

[racemybuick]

Well, i dunno if it is the cold weather, or just plain arrogance, but lately there seems to be quite a lot of Non-intercooled bashing on the boards lately! Seems like a lot of animosity towards the non-cool cars....Is there a little competition i am unaware of? Is there challenging going on or are teh IC guys threatened about sumthin that I dont know about?

If not, opinions are nice and all, but if they are the total negative bashingl and not fun type, keep the opinion off the screen! People who want to bash other cars just make asses out of themselves in the long-run, because it just seems so child-like, and so arrogant, it make the hobby seem worthless. My car has a limited production number of 4200 GN's and T's in 1984, and even though it is not as desireable as an IC car, there are over 20,000 87 GNs (excluding turbo t's and GNX's of course) out there that I can go buy one day, yet I may not have the same opportunity to own an 84-85 Gn due to their limited numbers.

While not so valuable at this time, numbers dont lie! It always seem that the more rare the car is in numbers, the higher the vale rises in the future, say, after 30 years?

I can wait forever to get my car together and perfect in and out, because I know that it will be worth something more later on. But until then, I respect those who take on the hot air projects to make a fast hot air, and I respect those who strive to keep their cars stock!

In the mean time, please keep the sarcasm about hot air in your minds, and not in print, and let the hobbies flourish. If you want competition, keep it friendly. Once it turns away from friendly, it looses it's appeal, and is no longer worth the effort.


That is my spiel....Just a sober thought.

john

 

[jpratt]

I bet a lot of it is because of the majority of TR's being "cold air" and they seem to ba a little easier to parts for and work on. I personally like the Lier leather seats over mine any day of the week.

 

[cool 84]

I've almost gotten used to it but oh well, what can you do? It's annoying at times but all it does is make me want to make mine faster. There's no doubt the 86-87 cars are more desirable if you're looking for cheap speed. I like mine due to the seats and it's rarer than the other cars.

After all the BS people called on me like running 12s on pumpgas and street tire and a few of my races namely the Vipers and blown Mustang, I'm currently looking at a camera to mount in my car.

While I would never challenge a fellow GN owner, the 3 random street races with another GN I've had, I've won. They got a weird look on their faces when they found out it was an 84 GN.

At least the IC people aren't as bad as your average idiot off the street. Just yesterday I had a guy tell me I should put a 454 in my car to go faster.

 

[TType84]

this is what happens when you hang out on buick boards. most of the owners are over 50 but they're still immature little ****ing brats.

solution, dont hang around buick guys.... if you must, hang around hotair guys. otherwise.. who needs em.

they're all close minded... never willing to accept anything new (ex: rjc power plate arguements)


its not woth my time or yours. they certainly cant teach us dick about anything.

 

[racemybuick]

Originally posted by TType84
this is what happens when you hang out on buick boards. most of the owners are over 50 but they're still immature little ****ing brats.

solution, dont hang around buick guys.... if you must, hang around hotair guys. otherwise.. who needs em.

they're all close minded... never willing to accept anything new (ex: rjc power plate arguements)


its not woth my time or yours. they certainly cant teach us dick about anything.

i have just about reached that conclusion ttype84! Thanks for the support you guys, but what we should do is keep little slugs with IC cars from bashing our cars in our own forums....just look at the recent threads regarding people purchasing or looking at hot air cars...people type here looking for advice, and IC people butt in and thow the same two cents in making our info worthless!

What's the point of posting info, when an IC guy can shoot in and shoot off of the mouth about no matter what, our cars will suck? Guess what...I am spending 5000 for my set-up, and proven, it has already run 11's...Total cost for my car until that point: 2700...do the math...i couldnt afford an 11 sec 87 GN for 7700, could I? I wait, I buy late, and I get good prices, and I can hopefully keep up with those who say I cant!

Lets get some moderators involved for once, who can eliminate those opinions that negatively affect our forum, or at least do not contribute positively!

Moderators?

John

 

[TType84]

most of the IC guys are BOUGHT NOT BUILT... i have no respect for them at all. they may be faster but i have the satisfaction of knowing every square inch of my car, because i restored it myself.

i could go on and on and on, but i wont.


just ignore them. when you see em at the track and you're going faster than them for a fraction of the cost, thats when you get to laugh in their faces.

ex:
a long time ago, back when my car was still running mid 13s, i went to the track with the local buick club. i was the only hotair car, and there were about 6 or 7 stock IC cars runnin slower than me.. theyd come up and be like yea yea atleast im not as slow as them hotair cars.. then id point to mine and be like oops, yeah you are dude.

makin ic guys look like fools infront of their friends is hilarious.

 

[6SENSE]

Ive mentioned before that Ive been the only hotair car in my local Buick chapter. There may be one or two others that have popped up before but Im the only one that is there all the time and the only one at the track. As a matter of fact guess who has been the only TR (ICed or not) at the track half the time for the past couple years... yeah this old hotair car (usually its me and Rob Nolan w/ his 87 which is on the verge of running 10s).
Im proud of my car and having something different. I dont really see it as a disadvantage performance wise either. You just have to take a different approach. When I look at the results from my car and what I have done to reach them I dont really feel Ive done a whole lot in comparison to what one would do with a 86/87 car. Most of the mods are the same that any 86/87 guy would do (i.e. k&n, exhaust, chip, etc). As far as the intake porting? well, everyone knows that was a big restriction to begin with, so all your doing by reworking it is leveling the playing field a bit since in 86 it was taken care of from the factory. Yeah Ive got a bigger turbo.......... yeah, well our stock turbos are smaller than the 86/87 turbos to begin with plus a ta33 is an upgrade but still a pea shooter turbo compared to an 86/87 upgrade (the first upgrade for a 86/87 is often a ta49). Plus the ta33 also happens to still be in the smaller 84/85 housing. My car is faster than quite a few 86/87s here with and without some mods, and like Ive stated I dont really see mine highly modded. Most of my mods are like I said the same that the IC cars would do or mods that just kind of "level the playing field" (like switching to 87 parts like coil, module, ecm etc. ; not really performance enhancing parts, over what they have anyway right?). Still with the old configuration with turbo in the back attached to TB, etc. Heck still on street tires and pump gas (w/ alky, but last I checked there are more IC cars with it than hotair), with spare, jack, tools, and baby seat... and oh yeah, still no IC . Lets see, $1300 for the car minus drivetrain, $250 for motor........ I'll have to add it all up one day but I dont think its going to come out to a whole lot, just a whole lot of tinkering time . For a dependable (sometimes serves as a daily driver and makes it to the track more than most others around here) 12sec ride might be a pretty good bang for the buck regardless of what year, huh?

As far as value, my brother called me last week when he got the new issue of Hemmings that showed some new values in it. Well both my brothers (both own ICed TRs) and I have noticed selling prices of TRs steadily getting higher and higher over the last couple years, ESPECIALLY HOTAIR CARS (seen clean 84 GNs with a $12000 price a couple of times). I havent seen the mag yet but my brother told me that the LOW price for a '84 was $6000 (not sure if thats for a GN or T). For an '87 T (not GN) the low price was $8000, middle was [I think] $13000, and high price $18000! They are ALL going up in value, even these unwanted hotair cars .
Im planning to put together a 87 one day with a 87 motor that I have sitting from a auction car that had caught on fire. I like both versions of the SFI TRs. They are all very unique compared to other vehicles that you run into everyday. With that line of thinking, there is just nothing wrong, but actually something special, about sticking with that which is rare & unique even amongst the rare & unique, thats why that 87 motor is waiting for an 87 and not going into the 84.

 

[broke1]

My 1st TR was a hot air so I speak from experience.I promptly blew the stock turbo......If you like your 84-85,im happy for you.I didnt like the lack of parts or that things cost more than 86-87 stuff.Not to mention the faster hot air cars switch to 86-87 parts(ecm,coil pack)

I had gathered all the parts to make my hot air fast(LT headers,DP,v2,etc)At the same time I had gathered all the parts for the 86-87 swap.I had decided on the 86-87 swap,unfortunately I sold the car before I did anything

 

[6SENSE]

Forgot to mention. Most switch to the 87 coil, module, etc because they are the more readily available and less expensive parts when the originals go out. As far as the ecm, if the darn scantools would tell enough info from the original ecms or even work with them (scanmaster) more people would probably keep them. That is the only real change I made to the '84 daily driver I just put together for that reason.
Yeah there has always been a lack of parts out there, especially aftermarket, for hotair cars but that just is a part of being more rare. Pretty cool I think that Dan Smith and others who used to stand by there hotair cars showed how you can interchange some parts between the years. Makes it even more gratifying when you assemble a fast hotair car out of old oe non performance parts from the later year cars and have a limited amount of aftermarket performance stuff out there. It just isnt for everyone. You have to be mechanically inclined and with a vision. Or have a lot of loot to pay someone mechanically inclined with a vision

 

[Turbo Riviera]

I think my sig says it all...

Of the 3 turbo buicks I owned (all at the same time) I kept the two hot airs.

My Riviera has the following mods: Slicks, boost, air filter, chip & electric fan.

With those mods, I went 13.61 @ 99 MPH in a FRONT WHEEL DRIVE Buick that weighs 300 pounds more than the GN's.

I get so sick and tired of everyone saying that hot air is junk. I've had more damn fun with my hot airs than I ever did with my faster '87. I've set NHRA records with my hot air, had people gawk at it because it was FWD, and I have enjoyed being a little different.

Instead, the average buick fan will have you go IC with the rest of them.

Mark my words... There will be another 11 second hot air and it won't be rear wheel drive. And it sure as hell will be done for less than $20,000 as stated in another post on the board.

 

[cwmccray]

My first experience with a Hot Air was seeing Scott Porter's refrigerator white T Type kicking some Rustang, Trans Camaro AZZ. Then I found out he had worked on his Hot Air extensively. His car was a killer. I later bought my T Type and I have been happy with it. I has killed many Stangs and Gaymaros from stoplight to stoplight and in 1/8 mile races. I only paid 500.00 for a complete car. The owner broke the dipstick and it fell in the bottom of the oil pan. This made it sound like it needed a motor.
It may not be intercooled but it was the "first car" to make everyone take notice of BUICK!

Chuck

 

[LV GN]

its just like anything else. you have good and bad in every crowd. its arrogant to say you have no respect for ic guys as it is to say a hot air car is a waste of time. there are many nice hotair cars out there. right now im fixxing a hotair riv. for my daughter to drive when she gets her licence.

 

[1QUICK85]

You think its bad being a true "hot air" try being a "hot air w/ an intercooler" ............ I mean were does that leave me???
Not really a "hot air" but not really a "intercooled car" either??? I straying away from my roots but still an outcast to the rest of the world........

Oh ya by the way...........EVERYONE WHO DRIVES A HOT AIR QUIT WASTING YOUR TIME........BEST THING TO DO IS SELL IT OR THROW A 86/87 DRIVE TRAIN IN THERE!!!

By the way things have been going I would think in the next ten years we will see a huge difference in number of hot air still left!!! I mean every newcomer is switching over the drivetrain because someone told them too, then some will get sent to the junk, and accidents are always happening. I might have to buy up some stock parts in case she gets really rare..... BUT YET SHE IS STILL NOT A '86/'87!!!

Nick

 

[TType84]

Originally posted by LV GN
its just like anything else. you have good and bad in every crowd. its arrogant to say you have no respect for ic guys as it is to say a hot air car is a waste of time. there are many nice hotair cars out there. right now im fixxing a hotair riv. for my daughter to drive when she gets her licence.

re-read my statement. i said "most of the ic guys are bought not built... i have no respect for those people"

...but you were right about the arrogant part.

 

[jacksorroche]

My first GN was an IC. I loved it, but had to sell it so I could get my daughter some braces. A couple of years ago, I got a Hot Air. Since then, I have cussed more, bashed more fingers and thrown more wrenches than I ever did with my IC GN. However, I have never once said that I was going to get rid of it. Fact is, I have fallen in LOVE with the Hot Air cars!! I have learned more about them and contunue to learn more about them as the days pass than I ever did with my IC GN. I don't know what it is about them, but I am going to keep this car till I die.

One last thing, all the sarcasm that has been posted towards us Hot Air types is really out of line. I also feel that the sarcasm from Hot Air people is out of line as well. I have always thought of us Buick owners as a brotherhood. Sort of like all the Harley owners. There are different types of Harley's, just like there are different types of GN's. However, since our car numbers are declining, this community should be a lot tighter than I feel it is right now. If not, we are doomed to die out like a fading car fad. Remember the Corvair?

 

[cool 84]

While the attitudes on the internet aren't that great, in person I've only had one bad experience. Usually the IC cars are sort of intrigued with the hotairs. One experience made me feel good. There were about 5 TRs at the track one night. One guy had a stage II going 9s. I talked to the guy for a while, mostly about his car but it was mentioned I had a hotair. I made my first pass and that was the 12.9@110mph in my sig. The guy came over to my car in the lanes and asked how the heck I got it running so good. He was really surprised to find out I was on pump gas and running through the convertor. The guy was raving about my car while he owned a 9 second car. I thought that was pretty cool.

I don't take anything on the internet seriously anymore. Usually when people bash the hotairs it's out of ignorance. I just wish people wouldn't state their opinions like they are facts. That's annoying.

 

[85 ttypewh1]

I look at it this way, My hot air cost me 2800 rust free runs great interior great but it needs paint. To get a ic car in that shape would be 4-6k. Then we all buy these cars to mod them and run faster so why pay the higher price for an ic car then turn around and buy new injectors, turbo, intercooler,chip, and other things. So in reality you paid for those parts twice so why not just buy a cheaper car (hot air) and then do the mods. I/C guys will say that you have to spend alot more money to make a hot air as fast as an ic but i think if you do some diy mods ie ecm conv., front mount i/c and just buy the parts needed to go fast you can do it cheaper with a hot air and as time goes buy i WILL prove that. Besides that my insurance is cheaper. So any time i hear someone bash the hot airs just motivates me to mod, and hopefully someday when i am done i will come across an ic guy that thinks my car is crap then i will race him and put him in check and tell him i probably have 5k less into my car than he does.

 

[ngianop]

Unfortunately, the peceived anonymity of the internet encourages people to forget their manners and sound off in ways they probably wouldn't dare do in person. They've probably never heard of the saying, "Better to remain silent and let people suspect you're an idiot than to speak (or write) and remove all doubt.".

I agree with what others have said on this thread. We're a relatively small community so we should all appreciate, not criticize, each other's tastes in cars. Who knows; maybe those throwing stones at others are insecure about their rides.

Crawling back under my rock now...

 

[FWD turbo]

Originally posted by Turbo Riviera
Mark my words... There will be another 11 second hot air and it won't be rear wheel drive. And it sure as hell will be done for less than $20,000 as stated in another post on the board.

He is absolutely right!

It will be my car, it will be this summer, and if things go right I think I might actually be able to stay under $10,000 total investment. Including the purchase price of the car. If not, I'm sure that $12,000 wil have me there. And me and my freinds built it ourselves.

I too am tired of all this hot-air bashing. My car looks pretty good, and one guy that saw it actually said, "Wow, no intercooler. That sucks. And is that a powermaster? Why would they do that swap? Those things suck too." Just another person that had absolutely no idea of what he was looking at. It's funny how many of those same people want nothing to do with racing it once they hear it run though.

I think it's all because too many people just don't have enough knowledge. Are intercoolers effective? Yes. Do they make it easier to go fast? Yes. But do you need one to go fast? Hell no! Especially if you throw some menthanol into the mix.

But I look at it this way. Hot air motors are getting awfully cheap these days. It's like people actually think there is some big internal difference. So if one goes boom, get a cheap replacement!

 

[tony1917]

Hot Air

Scott,
The truth will set them free.
Tony