Looking for some suggestions of how to get fuel to the fuel rail

[Red Regal T]

I'm turbo sixing an 86 El Camino, formerly powered by a fuel injected 4.3, and the picture below shows the feed fuel line and the fuel return line located on the passenger frame rail instead of on the driver side as in our TRs. The chevy lines attach to the frame rail fuel lines just like our's do, by means of fittings, in fact the same size and type. I'm much further along, which you can see in my thread in the hybrid section here ....

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/hybrids/336923-question-about-wiring-tr-harness-into-el-camino.html

but I haven't gotten to the point where I have to concentrate on routing or hooking up the fuel lines, but I thought perhaps over the next few weeks I could get some ideas or suggestions about routing the fuel lines to the TR engine fuel rail from the passenger side, or perhaps someone has experience running fuel from the passenger side on a similar conversion, or suggestions about the type of lines/hoses to have made up. TIA



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[The_Six]

Are those both the return and feed the same size? hard to tell in pick. I would just run -6 line to the rails and then you can rout the lines any way you want to. You may also want to just run new lines all the way to tank those fuel lines look like they are going to be getting some heat form the down pipe.

 

[Red Regal T]

Are those both the return and feed the same size? hard to tell in pick. I would just run -6 line to the rails and then you can rout the lines any way you want to. You may also want to just run new lines all the way to tank those fuel lines look like they are going to be getting some heat form the down pipe.

Those fittings are the same as on a TR, so one is larger than the other. I'm not sure those fittings are AN, but of course if they are, I can do that. There is a problem providing fuel under the regulator. As you know the stock line is steel and there is a pretty good bend right before the fuel pressure regulator. It's possible a flexible line couldn't make the bend without crimping. I may have to somehow incorporate the stock TR feed line.

I thought previously before I tore the car down I was going to have to run GN lines, but upon discovering this EC has the same line setup, only on the other rail, I can't see the advantage of ripping out perfectly good lines that are already in place. It's very difficult to run lines and on top of it, El Caminos are abouit 8" longer than GNs, thus complicating the procedure. The lines as they are now, come as close as an inch or so from the DP at a single point. I plan to shield the line right there with about a 3" X 3" piece of aluminum. It's not an issue.

 

[S10xGN]

Hey John,

My S-10 swap was a bit easier as the truck fuel lines were on the DR side. I ended up cutting the ends off both the truck lines and the GN engine fuel manifold lines and mating them together with a pair of stainless steel compression unions. You prolly have to do this twice (at the engine and at the frame rail) and use sections of brake tubing between the two...

 

[Red Regal T]

Hey John,

My S-10 swap was a bit easier as the truck fuel lines were on the DR side. I ended up cutting the ends off both the truck lines and the GN engine fuel manifold lines and mating them together with a pair of stainless steel compression unions. You prolly have to do this twice (at the engine and at the frame rail) and use sections of brake tubing between the two...

Got ya! Yes, that's a good idea. Linking to the TR fuel manifold lines would be best, especially on the driver's side, and I guess compression fittings is the way to go. Of course, I'd like to keep the GM connections provided, but I read somewhere you can't even get those fittings, and also, the El Camino lines, as you can see, end up inconveniently too far forward on the rail. You can see the ends poking out amongst the trans lines with the black rubber nipples on the ends. I've posted this query here to get myself thinking on this problem and take as many suggestions as I can. Surely more folks have had this or similar problems to overcome. I read somewhere on this forum while researching that Cutlasses also have the fuel lines on the passenger side. I have a friend locally that I need to contact. He did an 85 or 86 Cutlass V6 turbo hybrid very neatly, and I'll have to find out how he handled this problem. By the way Russ, Brian Weaver is sending me a TR under dash harness, so I'll be going that way on the wiring, and swapping in a Regal dash.

 

[The_Six]

You have to buy the fittings to change to AN hose, for the regulator you need to put a 90 14mm to dash 6 here is where to get it
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ge...6-6an-fuel-regulator-return-line-fitting.html
For the fuel rail you will need an6AN to 16mm o ring fitting
Fragola Performance Systems 491963-BL - Fragola Performance Systems AN to Metric Adapter Fittings - Overview - SummitRacing.com it does not say o ring in description but it is .
stock feed line fitting
female 16mm to AN6 Russell Performance 640830 - Russell AN to Metric Adapter Fittings - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Now the return hose line end its tricky the threads are 10mmx1.25 so to get around it you need a weld on steel 6AN fitting you then cut the end off of a stock house the metal end that screws on to the return fitting and take the original female fitting from the hose and weld it to the AN6 fitting you may also be able to braze it on haven’t tried that myself but I would think it would work. You will need this.
Aeroquip FBM2872 - Aeroquip AN Flare Adapters - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Hope this helps you out.

 

[Red Regal T]

You have to buy the fittings to change to AN hose, for the regulator you need to put a 90 14mm to dash 6 here is where to get it
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ge...6-6an-fuel-regulator-return-line-fitting.html
For the fuel rail you will need an6AN to 16mm o ring fitting
Fragola Performance Systems 491963-BL - Fragola Performance Systems AN to Metric Adapter Fittings - Overview - SummitRacing.com it does not say o ring in description but it is .
stock feed line fitting
female 16mm to AN6 Russell Performance 640830 - Russell AN to Metric Adapter Fittings - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Now the return hose line end its tricky the threads are 10mmx1.25 so to get around it you need a weld on steel 6AN fitting you then cut the end off of a stock house the metal end that screws on to the return fitting and take the original female fitting from the hose and weld it to the AN6 fitting you may also be able to braze it on haven’t tried that myself but I would think it would work. You will need this.
Aeroquip FBM2872 - Aeroquip AN Flare Adapters - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Hope this helps you out.

Thanks very much for your effort to help out, finding links, and offering advice. I'm sure I can use some, or all of this info as a guide as I work toward tackling this part of my project.

 

[The_Six]

Any time Im in the middle of replacing my lines with all braided if you are in no big hurry I can try and get just the front of the lines off the car that cross over to the driverside for you and then you can try to use compresion fitting to conect them to the lines you have now. I havent looked at them so i dont know how hard it woud be to get them off the car but if you think you can use them Ill give it a shot.

 

[Red Regal T]

Any time Im in the middle of replacing my lines with all braided if you are in no big hurry I can try and get just the front of the lines off the car that cross over to the driverside for you and then you can try to use compresion fitting to conect them to the lines you have now. I havent looked at them so i dont know how hard it woud be to get them off the car but if you think you can use them Ill give it a shot.

That's very kind of you, but please, don't go to any extra work over this. If you were already removing a line or whatever for some reason, that's one thing, but don't pull something off just on my account. I will be figuring which way I'm going over the next few weeks and I'll add that information to what's already been suggested here. Thanks!

 

[Red Regal T]

Took a look at the situation with running fuel lines in mind. Seems I may have to take off some of the accessories I've put in place to run these lines. Got a little ahead of myself, but not that much. I prefer the idea of not changing over to exotic fittings. For my daily driver type of application, I don't see the necessity of changing everything around. Besides, some of the correct aftermarket fittings that you would need, don't even seem to exist, forcing you to modify the aftermarket units. I am a junkyard dog, and I know I can get GM fuel related fittings at the boneyard. I have a few now, and here is something preliminary I've come up with from my small stash of 'junk'. For the return side, the photo below shows one of the fittings I pulled out of my 'junk' can. The nipple, expanded specifically for retaining fuel lines, points right down through in front of the engine, and thought perhaps I could use fuel injection hose and run it right to the rail fuel line, of course, taking care that it couldn't blow off. On the feed side, because of the difficult turn into the fuel pressure regulator, use the factory line, cut it off right before it turns to the driver rail (where I painted white) and install a compression fitting there, joining a properly bent steel line that will be bent to run along the frame under the engine to the passenger frame rail feed line. Awaiting critiques, suggestions, and advice.






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[S10xGN]

...For the return side, the photo below shows one of the fittings I pulled out of my 'junk' can...,,,,,,,,

John,

Just to be clear, that is the supply side. The fuel returns from the base of the regulator. I'm sure you knew that and just misspoke... :biggrin:

 

[Red Regal T]

Thanks for clarifying that. Actually, yesterday, I began to realize I was confused on that issue and was looking into it last night. Of course, it seemed proper and normal to me that the 3/8" line would be the feed, even noticing while under the car yesterday that of course the fuel filter was on the big line, but the 5/16" "fed" the regulator, which seemed odd. But who am I to question the engineers at GM? You picked right up on my mistake and gingerly pointed it out, and I don't have to look into in anymore. Any suggestions on my plan of attack here? Shortening the lines on the frame rail was the key. Thanks for suggesting that.

 

[turbofabricator]

The factory supply line is 3/8" with a 3/8" Saginaw fitting (o-ring type fitting) The factory return line is actually a 1/4" line with a unique 5/16" Saginaw fitting. I have a flaring tool for the 5/16" and 3/8" tubing, but not for the 1/4".
To simplify your installation, cut the fuel lines on the frame behind the cross member and then use new lines and run them on the back side of the cross member and over to the drivers side frame rail and use stock flex lines to the rails. ALOT easier that way. It is acceptable to use brass compression fittings, but steel compression fittings would be better for the supply line.
I just finished making all new stainless lines for a chassis I built. I couldn't use the factory replacement lines becasue the frame was boxed and they would require too much re-bending to work. Fabbing them from new stainless lines was easier and they came out much nicer. I still had to use a compression fitting for the return line at the frame interface with the fuel rail line. The return line is now a full 5/16" from regulator all the wau back to the tank.
You could also purchase new GN fuel lines and use them on the Elky. You'll have to lift the body off the frame to get them installed.
I'll try and post pics of the T-Type frame soon.
PM me for my phone number if you'd like me to talk/walk you through it.

 

[Red Regal T]

The factory supply line is 3/8" with a 3/8" Saginaw fitting (o-ring type fitting) The factory return line is actually a 1/4" line with a unique 5/16" Saginaw fitting. I have a flaring tool for the 5/16" and 3/8" tubing, but not for the 1/4".
To simplify your installation, cut the fuel lines on the frame behind the cross member and then use new lines and run them on the back side of the cross member and over to the drivers side frame rail and use stock flex lines to the rails. ALOT easier that way. It is acceptable to use brass compression fittings, but steel compression fittings would be better for the supply line.
I just finished making all new stainless lines for a chassis I built. I couldn't use the factory replacement lines becasue the frame was boxed and they would require too much re-bending to work. Fabbing them from new stainless lines was easier and they came out much nicer. I still had to use a compression fitting for the return line at the frame interface with the fuel rail line. The return line is now a full 5/16" from regulator all the wau back to the tank.
You could also purchase new GN fuel lines and use them on the Elky. You'll have to lift the body off the frame to get them installed.
I'll try and post pics of the T-Type frame soon.
PM me for my phone number if you'd like me to talk/walk you through it.

Originally, I was going to use GN factory lines I took from a donor car, but when I realized the fuel injected Camino had the same lines, feed, return, and vent, in good condition, just on the other side, I dumped that idea. Too much work for little gain. Also, what sealed that decision is that the Elky is 8" longer than a GN so I would have had to cut and lengthen those stock GN lines using a bunch of compression fittings. I will take an overall look at bending then connecting w/ compression fittings those stock GN lines I have in my possession to the El Camino lines cut behind and then routed behind the cross member and up to the GN stock location as you suggest and see if there is any obstacles to deter me from going that route. Thank you very much for a very good suggestion that will allow me to use the stock GN flex lines to the fuel rail.

 

[Red Regal T]

Looked for my fuel lines liberated from a GN donor car today, and could only find the 3/8" feed line. I have two of them. I have no idea what happened to the return line. I'll probably run across it at some other time. So, that necessitated I go with my original plan. I cut about 15" off the stock El Camino feed line, and used it as my fuel rail feed. It extends down to right above the oil filter. I'll flare it and double clamp it and run fuel injection hose from it to the shortened El Camino line, which I will flare and double clamp. No compression fitting necessary. The return side, I'm using the original GN line running from the fuel pressure regulator, then cutting it just before it turns to the driver side rail, then attaching a few inch long piece of injector hose from it, to a 5/16" steel line that will route over the cross member & turning to El Camino return line on the passenger frame rail where I will use a compression fitting to make the union. That should be it.

 

[just plain john]

I have a never used return line for a GN I got for my Hybrid build that might help you out. If memory serves it's from Classic Tube. Are you interested?

 

[Red Regal T]

I appreciate that John, but I already went forward and have all the lines bent, flared, compression fitted together where needed (1). All I have to do is buy the fuel injection hose, hose clamps, and attach them to the modified lines. Got my GN harness today from Brian, so maybe tomorrow I'll rip out the Elky dash and wiring for a change of pace.

 

[Red Regal T]

In case anybody had any doubts in my abilities, everything is falling in place perfectly!


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[just plain john]

Is that the old coming out or the new going in?

 

[Red Regal T]

Wait ... let me look ................ that's the new one. Can't you tell?

Here comes Red Regal T ....