War Theory
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2018
Hey all 1st day here Looking to pick up a 87 grand national would love to get a gnx but keep on hearing it’s hard to find. If anyone can point me in the right Direction I would really appreciate it.
Looking for 87 Grand National
- Thread starter War Theory
- Start date
BuckeyeTroop
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2007
What do you want to spend? Mods? Stock? Options?
War Theory
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2018
Looking for a fair deal... saw one for sale in VA it has 79 miles on it the guy wants $71,500 I think ...it don’t sounds right... I have bought and rebuild 01 Ws6 , 73 Mach1 with a Cleveland in it... 83 iroc ... had a few others but like always had my fun than sale...this time it’s different want to have something really special for my son....something I can pass on to him...
War Theory
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2018
That one was not a GNX it was a regular edition the guy said....I don’t know enough but once I get start It’s all I will do...do you know where I might find a few to compare? What’s a fair price? Is it hard to find parts etc... when I did the Mach1 it took me like 4 weeks to get everything bumper to bumper...
Jerryl
Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2004
I tell guys; These cars will teach you patience. If you are impatient like I used to be . . . You will need to learn that skill, or sell and move on. Whatever you were used to on the Mach 1, take that times 20 to be safe on some parts.
Not trying to discourage, just wanted to let you know what's possibly ahead. Good luck with your search.
TacticalGN
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2016
Always GN's for sale on your local Craigslist. I would try there 1st. Just MAKE SURE that when looking at the car it has the all important WE2 code on the SPID (option label) on the inside of the trunk. That WE2 code tells you it's a real GN, not a clone. Just make sure the vin number on the label matches the vin on the dash. You should also find someone local to you that knows these cars well as he/she will most likely know what to look for on these cars. You can post up your state you reside in on the forum here (anything goes section) and ask for a local member to help you in that regard. Lot's of good people here. As for looking for a GNX, they are out there. But are priced 4 or 5 times higher some times then a GN. IMO, unless it's going to be a garage queen, id buy a GN. Again, my opinion. And don't be afraid to ask as many questions on this forum as you like. Good luck with your search.
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
First off, welcome aboard War Theory.
This might get a little long winded but please bare with me.
Here's the low down. Turbo Regal values and prices are currently VERY HIGH. These cars ("86-"87) models are currently the hottest sought after car GM made in the late "80's. You will see the asking prices for GN's in particular, reflect this as those in the know, know this to be a fact. You will also start to see more and more "Barn find / put aways" showing up with insane prices for low mileage GN's. Low mileage to me, means under 50k miles and a 9 on a 1-10 scale. About 15 years ago, you could find low mileage GN's for a realistic deal, but those days are long gone. IE: 20 - 60k mile GN's were in the $17k - $13k range. As of today, these same cars are priced in the $19k - $25k range, with that $25k number being the magic number everyone seems to be after. That 79 mile GN (74 according to the Fox News article and Ebay ad) is priced very high for a GN. You will start to see other Stealerships playing the same game. IE: find a very low mileage GN from the original owner, buy it for a realistic price and attempt to resell it for an insane amount. Grand Nationals typically hold higher retail prices than T-Types, Turbo T's, T Limited and WE-4's, mainly because of the initial marketing press when they were new. Because of the press, Grand National became a house hold name in hot rodding. And typically everyone that drag races, knows what a GN is. On the contrary, very few know what a Turbo T, T-Type,T Limited or WE-4 is. Thankfully over the past few years, prices for similar conditioned T's have been on the rise.
Realistically, if you are searching for a low miles "86-"87 GN, expect to pay $20-$25k in today's market. And don't rule out an "86 T-Type or the various "87 Turbo T models. They all have the same drive train, just different colors and interiors. The SPID trunk label RPO code you should be looking for, is LC2. That is the RPO code for the 3.8 SFI Intercooled Turbo V6 used in all "86 - "87 Turbo Buicks. Two more important ones when looking at a GN are WE2 (RPO code for the Grand National package) and G80. (RPO code for posi-traction) But don't let a non G80 car turn you off, as most of the time, a previous owner installs a posi-traction unit in it. You might see a GN clone that has WE4 on the label. If so and the VIN#'s match, it is the WE4 model that someone swapped interiors, added the spoiler, wheels and GN badges too. There is a lot of info on what the WE4's are and they are legit, low production models that only came in black. So watch out for those. The more research you do, the easier it will be to spot a GN clone from the real deal. What TacticalGN said is 110% "looking out for you" truth. You need someone to look at a potential car who's been around them for a long time. This is to protect you from buying a "rode hard and put up broke" example. No matter what flavor you go with, you absolutely do not want to buy a basket case or previously raced hard car. Spend as much as you can afford, but if this is something that you are looking to pass down, I highly recommend you spend a decent amount on a pristine example so you don't have to dump another $20K into it to make it presentable. You will also find that the lower priced cars, typically require a lot more maintenance or appearance work than first thought. Thankfully we have Classic Industries and OPGI stepping up their games for repo parts. But we also have a very good core group of supporting vendors on this site that carry what you need. I would highly recommend you pick up some of Dennis Kirban's books. (Kirban Performance Products owner) Namely the Kirban's Guide to 1986 - 1987 Turbo Regals and his two books called Tips, Trivia and Sources. Very valuable info when getting into these cars. It's also a very good idea to pick up the Service and Body manuals. These can still be found on Ebay or from some of the vendors, as well as downloaded from the net for free.
https://www.kirbanperformance.com/products/11/BOOKS,+DVDs,+LITERATURE,+POSTERS.html
If you are looking for a car that you can both work on, tinker with in the garage as a father son project, still buy as much car as you can afford to start with. Just because someone has a legit Turbo Regal rolling chassis that's a smoking deal, doesn't mean you can bring it back to glory with minimal money spent. These cars are not cheap to restore, nor hot rod / mess around with. You will also learn that it takes money to get one of these cars up to speed with today's modern muscle cars. Back in the beginning, we held an edge over the competition because it was relatively cheap to get them into the 12's with minimal mods. Today's competition will laugh at you, if the car is not a solid 11 second car. Especially if you need to address a lot of maintenance issues. That's just the reality of the situation. You want to find a car that has been well maintained and one that the owner knows all about how important zinc phosphorus additive is for the oil, such as ZDDPlus. If you are looking at a car and you ask the owner if they use a zinc phosphorus additive in the oil at every oil change and they look at you with the deer in the headlights look, run away Forrest, run away! It's a proven fact that without it, the cam, the lifters, as well as the turbos' bearings are on their way out or are starting to show signs of failure without running the additive. This is also why it's so important to have a knowledgeable owner check out any potential car. Some of us can tell the signs just by hearing one run. Everything from a failing cam/lifter, leaking header/headers, bad belt tensioner, etc etc. Mr. Richard Clark brought this product to market specifically for our cars back in 2005 and he goes over all the info on his website. Very informative info that every owner should know by heart.
https://zddplus.com/how-it-works/
These cars are VERY temper-mental and not for someone that has little patience. They will drive you literally crazy if you have no modern fuel injection experience or wrench turning ability. You must have a good grasp on the importance of tuning a forced inducted fuel injected application, as the original 30+ year old ECM technology is slow and very unforgiving if the tune is not right. You can't treat one of these cars like a typical SBC SBF BBC or BBF as they are completely different in all aspects of their nature. Some people get into these cars thinking they can just pour a can of octane booster in the tank, crank up the boost and go racing without thoroughly going over the car first. That may have been true back in the early 90's, but not today. Going over the car first, is what we like to call Spring Cleaning. You will see this referred to in numerous posts on this site. There are literally hundreds of posts on this site that outline all of the steps needed before you "mash the gas". Heck, I've even made a bunch of them in the past myself. Here's one that's still relevant today.
https://turbobuick.com/threads/info-for-new-turbo-regal-owners.380856/
In closing, we're all here to help and we want to see you enjoy this new adventure. (New Turbo Buick ownership) We want you to have as much fun as we do with our own. These cars are seriously, an addiction. Once you own one, you will own another. I myself have been messing with them since "87 and am currently on my 4th one. It's an addiction that you'll never loose. You've come to the #1 site on the web for priceless information that a lot of people have willingly shared over the years. You will find a serious knowledge base from the long time owners who are still on this site. Also, you will start to see really good deals on "84-"85 Hot Air Turbo Buicks, but IMHO, the platform is much more challenging to hot rod if it's kept stock. Most who have them and successfully hot rod them, have converted them to either the "86-"87 intercooled platform all together, or as a bare minimum upgrade the ECM and ignition system to "86-"87 configurations. Don't get me wrong, there are some dedicated Hot Air guys on this site. But it is a lot more challenging to hot rod one of them, vs the "86-"87 models.
Welcome aboard and keep us posted on your hunt.
-Patrick-
P.S. Don't forget about the upcoming Buick GS Nationals event held annually at Beech Bend Raceway in Bowling Green KY on October 24th - 27th. This is the absolute best place to get a real feel for what these cars are about. It's also a great place to go shopping for one. Here's the link about the event.
http://www.gsnationals.com/race_and_show.htm
This might get a little long winded but please bare with me.
Here's the low down. Turbo Regal values and prices are currently VERY HIGH. These cars ("86-"87) models are currently the hottest sought after car GM made in the late "80's. You will see the asking prices for GN's in particular, reflect this as those in the know, know this to be a fact. You will also start to see more and more "Barn find / put aways" showing up with insane prices for low mileage GN's. Low mileage to me, means under 50k miles and a 9 on a 1-10 scale. About 15 years ago, you could find low mileage GN's for a realistic deal, but those days are long gone. IE: 20 - 60k mile GN's were in the $17k - $13k range. As of today, these same cars are priced in the $19k - $25k range, with that $25k number being the magic number everyone seems to be after. That 79 mile GN (74 according to the Fox News article and Ebay ad) is priced very high for a GN. You will start to see other Stealerships playing the same game. IE: find a very low mileage GN from the original owner, buy it for a realistic price and attempt to resell it for an insane amount. Grand Nationals typically hold higher retail prices than T-Types, Turbo T's, T Limited and WE-4's, mainly because of the initial marketing press when they were new. Because of the press, Grand National became a house hold name in hot rodding. And typically everyone that drag races, knows what a GN is. On the contrary, very few know what a Turbo T, T-Type,T Limited or WE-4 is. Thankfully over the past few years, prices for similar conditioned T's have been on the rise.
Realistically, if you are searching for a low miles "86-"87 GN, expect to pay $20-$25k in today's market. And don't rule out an "86 T-Type or the various "87 Turbo T models. They all have the same drive train, just different colors and interiors. The SPID trunk label RPO code you should be looking for, is LC2. That is the RPO code for the 3.8 SFI Intercooled Turbo V6 used in all "86 - "87 Turbo Buicks. Two more important ones when looking at a GN are WE2 (RPO code for the Grand National package) and G80. (RPO code for posi-traction) But don't let a non G80 car turn you off, as most of the time, a previous owner installs a posi-traction unit in it. You might see a GN clone that has WE4 on the label. If so and the VIN#'s match, it is the WE4 model that someone swapped interiors, added the spoiler, wheels and GN badges too. There is a lot of info on what the WE4's are and they are legit, low production models that only came in black. So watch out for those. The more research you do, the easier it will be to spot a GN clone from the real deal. What TacticalGN said is 110% "looking out for you" truth. You need someone to look at a potential car who's been around them for a long time. This is to protect you from buying a "rode hard and put up broke" example. No matter what flavor you go with, you absolutely do not want to buy a basket case or previously raced hard car. Spend as much as you can afford, but if this is something that you are looking to pass down, I highly recommend you spend a decent amount on a pristine example so you don't have to dump another $20K into it to make it presentable. You will also find that the lower priced cars, typically require a lot more maintenance or appearance work than first thought. Thankfully we have Classic Industries and OPGI stepping up their games for repo parts. But we also have a very good core group of supporting vendors on this site that carry what you need. I would highly recommend you pick up some of Dennis Kirban's books. (Kirban Performance Products owner) Namely the Kirban's Guide to 1986 - 1987 Turbo Regals and his two books called Tips, Trivia and Sources. Very valuable info when getting into these cars. It's also a very good idea to pick up the Service and Body manuals. These can still be found on Ebay or from some of the vendors, as well as downloaded from the net for free.
https://www.kirbanperformance.com/products/11/BOOKS,+DVDs,+LITERATURE,+POSTERS.html
If you are looking for a car that you can both work on, tinker with in the garage as a father son project, still buy as much car as you can afford to start with. Just because someone has a legit Turbo Regal rolling chassis that's a smoking deal, doesn't mean you can bring it back to glory with minimal money spent. These cars are not cheap to restore, nor hot rod / mess around with. You will also learn that it takes money to get one of these cars up to speed with today's modern muscle cars. Back in the beginning, we held an edge over the competition because it was relatively cheap to get them into the 12's with minimal mods. Today's competition will laugh at you, if the car is not a solid 11 second car. Especially if you need to address a lot of maintenance issues. That's just the reality of the situation. You want to find a car that has been well maintained and one that the owner knows all about how important zinc phosphorus additive is for the oil, such as ZDDPlus. If you are looking at a car and you ask the owner if they use a zinc phosphorus additive in the oil at every oil change and they look at you with the deer in the headlights look, run away Forrest, run away! It's a proven fact that without it, the cam, the lifters, as well as the turbos' bearings are on their way out or are starting to show signs of failure without running the additive. This is also why it's so important to have a knowledgeable owner check out any potential car. Some of us can tell the signs just by hearing one run. Everything from a failing cam/lifter, leaking header/headers, bad belt tensioner, etc etc. Mr. Richard Clark brought this product to market specifically for our cars back in 2005 and he goes over all the info on his website. Very informative info that every owner should know by heart.
https://zddplus.com/how-it-works/
These cars are VERY temper-mental and not for someone that has little patience. They will drive you literally crazy if you have no modern fuel injection experience or wrench turning ability. You must have a good grasp on the importance of tuning a forced inducted fuel injected application, as the original 30+ year old ECM technology is slow and very unforgiving if the tune is not right. You can't treat one of these cars like a typical SBC SBF BBC or BBF as they are completely different in all aspects of their nature. Some people get into these cars thinking they can just pour a can of octane booster in the tank, crank up the boost and go racing without thoroughly going over the car first. That may have been true back in the early 90's, but not today. Going over the car first, is what we like to call Spring Cleaning. You will see this referred to in numerous posts on this site. There are literally hundreds of posts on this site that outline all of the steps needed before you "mash the gas". Heck, I've even made a bunch of them in the past myself. Here's one that's still relevant today.
https://turbobuick.com/threads/info-for-new-turbo-regal-owners.380856/
In closing, we're all here to help and we want to see you enjoy this new adventure. (New Turbo Buick ownership) We want you to have as much fun as we do with our own. These cars are seriously, an addiction. Once you own one, you will own another. I myself have been messing with them since "87 and am currently on my 4th one. It's an addiction that you'll never loose. You've come to the #1 site on the web for priceless information that a lot of people have willingly shared over the years. You will find a serious knowledge base from the long time owners who are still on this site. Also, you will start to see really good deals on "84-"85 Hot Air Turbo Buicks, but IMHO, the platform is much more challenging to hot rod if it's kept stock. Most who have them and successfully hot rod them, have converted them to either the "86-"87 intercooled platform all together, or as a bare minimum upgrade the ECM and ignition system to "86-"87 configurations. Don't get me wrong, there are some dedicated Hot Air guys on this site. But it is a lot more challenging to hot rod one of them, vs the "86-"87 models.
Welcome aboard and keep us posted on your hunt.
-Patrick-
P.S. Don't forget about the upcoming Buick GS Nationals event held annually at Beech Bend Raceway in Bowling Green KY on October 24th - 27th. This is the absolute best place to get a real feel for what these cars are about. It's also a great place to go shopping for one. Here's the link about the event.
http://www.gsnationals.com/race_and_show.htm
