just bought my 1st GN. it has a fuel delivery prob and was hoping for help

[Scuffler]

hey all. i am super stoked that i have this car. i cut my finger off at work and am using my comp award for this.
it's an 84 with an 87 drive train.
some mods.
i dont know the exact sizes and such as i am still going through all the papers.
headers
aluminum radiator with duel fans
larger turbo
new harness
aftermarket exhaust
no converter
new motor mounts
87 intercooler
upgraded chip

all was fine. the owner put bigger injectors on it and now all it will do is turn over. what do you think my options are here? i dont understand what the problem would be. fuel pressure regulator?
thats really all i can think of.
if i put the other injectors back in should it fire up.
i laid my deposit down and i am picking it up in a couple days and i dont know which direction to go.
i appreciate any help.

when i grab it i am going to take it straight to the shop but i would like to have a direction to go
thank you

 

[ZNix]

hey all. i am super stoked that i have this car. i cut my finger off at work and am using my comp award for this.
it's an 84 with an 87 drive train.
some mods.
i dont know the exact sizes and such as i am still going through all the papers.
headers
aluminum radiator with duel fans
larger turbo
new harness
aftermarket exhaust
no converter
new motor mounts
87 intercooler
upgraded chip

all was fine. the owner put bigger injectors on it and now all it will do is turn over. what do you think my options are here? i dont understand what the problem would be. fuel pressure regulator?
thats really all i can think of.
if i put the other injectors back in should it fire up.
i laid my deposit down and i am picking it up in a couple days and i dont know which direction to go.
i appreciate any help.

when i grab it i am going to take it straight to the shop but i would like to have a direction to go
thank you

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If he put bigger injectors on the car without the matching chip, it could cause it not to start. It might be flooding the engine out with all the extra fuel being pushed into the combustion chamber. Make sure the computer chip is correct for the injectors! The orange wire could still be disconnected.. He may not have plugged it back in after swapping computer chips.. It could be a couple different things like grounds, etc.

Where are you located? Maybe someone can help you take a look at it.

 

[Scuffler]

im in northeast ohio. i was going to tow it to a performance shop and see whats up

 

[Scuffler]

ive been reading a bit. i dont know if there is anyone near me that handles gn's as a rule so i was going to lean on a performance shop.
also, he still has the old injectors and chip so i might just put those back on and sort it out later

 

[Joeld]

my first thought is as follows
these cars are very complicated and buying a transplant which i am sure adds complexity and a car that has modifactions that is not running adds a bunch more complexity

i would reconsider the car and maybe look for a matching numbers car that is running properly for your first dip into turbo buicks

my two cents

of course.the guys here will help any way they can

second, sorry about your finger i hope you heal quickly

third, cant help myself and i know this will go over like a lead baloon but may want to consider putting such money away for a rainy day

best wishes
joel

 

[TurboBuRick]

You will be hard pressed to find a speed shop that knows Turbo Buick's. Not that they don't exist but the average shop will be scratching their heads.

Like mentioned a transplant car can hold a slew of gremlins that can be impossible for someone in un familiar water to figure out. Not trying to discourage but do yourself a favor and find someone who specializes in these cars.

Start a thread asking for help in your area. You might find someone right around the corner.

Good Luck!

 

[Scuffler]

thanks guys. i had those same thoughts as well but i couldn't resist.
of course i have always wanted a numbers matching 87 but we all know what those cost. it is the car i have always wanted and when i came across this i felt like i had to take the gamble.
i'm not totally ignorant when it comes to cars but i absolutely am when it comes to these.
fact is, i'm 35, i have a family and i work(ed) hard and had no extra time/money for this.

along with losing 1 finger totally i split another down the middle longways. i have no feeling and no grip but the phantom pains are there. what i'm getting at is i don't know what my work potential is going to be after this and this is the only time i can forsee where i am going to have the money laying around.
i figured i would gamble on this and if i have to put a bit into it i will still be ahead of the game with money left.

sometimes you have to gamble and i am not one of those guys but as they say in risky business, sometimes you have to say wtf!

thanks for the well wishes about my finger

 

[trixdout]

First off check what turbo you got installed (it doesnt look stock), check what pound injectors he put in (the bigger ones), then check the chip (post up numbers that are on it, does it have a smiley face stocker on it. Those things can tell you if the chip is correct.

After you do that we can go further into why it dont start.

Sent from my iPhone using Turbo Buick

 

[Scuffler]

its not a stock turbo. he said a bigger one was installed long before this injector issue and things were fine.
i'm picking the car up tues and will put this info up as i am towing it to the shop that day.

i was thinking of just ordering an injector/chip combo from turbo tweak. that had a set with good prices. they ask for some of this info as well and i dont have it.

site says it takes about a week for the chip to come in.

do you think it would benefit me just to go get this info off the car, buy the kit and when i have it towed to the shop and have the injectors/chip installed and just be done?
i have no idea what size injectors he put in

 

[trixdout]

Before you take it to the shop I'd suggest searching the site for info as to why it won't start. You might just overspend or get dicked over by a shop. As mentioned before, there are very few shops that's are well rounded about our cars.

That's fine, I can see it isn't stock in the picture, I know that. But how big is it. You will need to know what turbo it is if you plan on buying the inj/chip combo anyways. Test your coilpak and ignition module. Check or voltage the pins that give signal to the crank and cam sensor. Chances are the sensors are fine but the signal is not there. You are better off listening to us than taking it to a shop.

Also how do you know it is a fuel delivery problem? Pull the spark plugs out of one side of the engine, all three, with the plug wires still attached, crank the car, do you see spark coming from the spark plugs. Oh and dont just hold them in the air, hold them to a ground on the car.
Sent from my iPhone using Turbo Buick

 

[Scuffler]

thanks again for your response. i just assumed it is a fuel delivery problem cause it ran fine untill he put in the injectors and chip.
i'm not going to take it to a shop. i went to my old neighbors house who's been doing mechanical and body work on damn near everything and i have seen him fix and fabricate some amazing things. he said i can have it towed to his house and he will dig into it. he is definately not a gn guru but he is a hell of a mechanic in all ways. also, at his house i can shadow him and learn about my car.

i told him the issue and what some of you have said. he is going to put the old injectors back in with the old chip and we are going to see what happens. i will tell him about the coilpack and ignition module as well as testing the voltage and such.
i'm not saying he is a pro tuner but im sure he can get me diagnosed to why this thing isnt starting and i can get on it.

i went to turbo tweak and checked out their injectors and chips as well as the sets. prices seem reasonable.

IF we put the old injectors back in with the old chip and it works, great. if it does not, providing the coil/module/voltage all check out, should i order a new set of injectors and the chip, or just the chip to match the injectors. of course the chip alone would be cheaper.

i'm not looking for the fastest car around. stock would have been great. this already has some mods so i'm sure it will suit me just fine. especially for what i got the car for.

i will get detailed info on type/size of turbo as well as chip. how do i know what size injectors are on it or what was on it though? do they say.

when i looked on the site i was going to get 42lb injectors. would that suffice?

i'm not even sure what size came stock on the car. ive been looking at specs for the 87 but is there anywhere i can look that will tell me what size stock injectors were. rear end gears ans all the little particular specs like that?

i just felt like it would have been a coincidence that the fuel pump, coil pack, etc failed right as the injectors were changed.

do you think i could get a super rough estimate on how many horses it is putting out if i give the vague mods? just curious and a ballpark would be great.

i don't know the particulars but what i know is
a/c disconnected, components removed and bypassed
bigger turbo 'not sure what size'....lets assume the next largest that came stock 'which i dont know what that is either'
headers 'don't know what kind'
no cat converter
aftermarket exhaust 'not sure what kind but i looked under it and the pipes look very large. 2 and 1/2 inches all the way back maybe
k/n filter
aluminum radiator

those mods should give me something right?

sorry for all the questions but i'm just trying to learn


thank you all

 

[Heg87t]

What MAF is on the car? Looks strange in the picture... definately not stock and may not be correct.

 

[dsapper]

The ecu is in the passenger kick panel, open it and see what chip is in there. If its a turbo tweak you can call eric and ask him what mods it was set up for, that will help alot. If he has the last injectors and chip that were in it I'd get them back and swap it to see if that helps. Then start with basics, is the fuel filter clogged? Is there spark? Is there fuel pressure? Is the cam sensor bad?

 

[Scuffler]

i dont know what mass airflow is on there. i just know it was running up untill the injector change.

i get starting with the basics but if any of those were bad or fuel pressure off i'm thinking that should have caused an issue before the injector swap... no?

 

[John Larkin]

I think you're on the right track to figure out what everything is on the car that is not stock. Part numbers, descriptions, etc. Get the car home and start documenting all the stuff that is not OEM. I know you posted a list. What do you mean by new harness? Engine harness? Injector harness? That might be the problem right there. Injectors are made by different manufacturers and have different ways of identification, colors, numbers, etc. Do your best to identify everything. I know you know but a baseline is really important.

 

[Scuffler]

larkin, the guy i bought it from said the wiring harness from the 84 to the 87 was different. when the 87 drivetrain was dropped in the harness was switched as well. i kinda went with my gut cause i didnt hear it run. for an 84 it looks damn clean. he said he drove it quite often. added motor mounts and did the exhaust. then once he did the swap it won't start, just turns over. when i asked him if the injectors matched the chip he said they were both pulled out of an 87 that ran but i cant be sure.
i see why people are saying check fuel pump, filter, etc but i just think if it ran till the injector swap then that must be the issue.

hopefully i will get a quick diag at the performance shop and then i will try and switch back to the old injectors and chip and if it still dont work i will order the 42lbs injectors and chip from the turbo tweak.

 

[groumoutis]

Look on top of the injectors and there should be a series of numbers. Type the numbers into google and you should get your answer on the current injectors. Should take you 5 minutes. The chip should take about the same amount of time. So in 10 minutes you will be miles ahead.

As stated before and I will agree don't take it to a shop. You can go thru the easy steps of checking spark and fuel. Let your neighbor look at it but order a scan tool (scanmaster) and find out what mods the car has and go from there. The scanmaster won't be able to help until the car is running but it will get the car giving back info for you to learn from and then it will help you getting it running right. All the knowledge on this board will amaze you. It is scary how much some of these guys know.

Oh the trunk lid emblem appears to be on the wrong side.

Go to the regional section of the board and you will be able to find that there are a bunch of guys in Ohio.

 

[longball]

take pictures of the turbo and injectors and post them - someone will know what they are. Include any numbers or letters in the pics.
Hope That Helps! Good Luck with the car and your fingers!

 

[John Larkin]

Until the car runs well, I wouldn't even consider further mods. This car has lots of mods already, I see the bleeder valve up front, external wastegate, aftermarket downpipe - someone has already been tweaking on it. Don't throw money at it; learn from our mistakes. And please hook up the a/c. Plenty of parts guys on the board that can hook you up with the missing parts affordably. It will be hot soon.

What kind of transmission does it have? That is an odd looking dipstick in the photo.

Last question: Does it say Turbo on the air conditioning box on the firewall?

 

[Scuffler]

I think you're on the right track to figure out what everything is on the car that is not stock. Part numbers, descriptions, etc. Get the car home and start documenting all the stuff that is not OEM. I know you posted a list. What do you mean by new harness? Engine harness? Injector harness? That might be the problem right there. Injectors are made by different manufacturers and have different ways of identification, colors, numbers, etc. Do your best to identify everything. I know you know but a baseline is really important.

hoping to go over today and grab some part numbers and such. he just said the wiring harness was changed. i didnt pay much attention to t hat cause he said it was like that when he got it and he was driving it. i am going to take more pics and get as much info as possible