Is this Grand National worth buying?

[odell4o8]

gn

here in central indiana, i will pay 3500.00 for a stock gn. that you can drive, i have a 9 sec turbo regal and a bone stock 87 gn that is for sale 162000 miles good int, new paint runs great, i wouldnt take less than 6500.00 for it, i have been trying to buy two gn from the orginal owner, a 86 and a 87 one has a rod knocking. the other one will run, both rusty, int, ruff, t tops leak, even the wheels are really rusty, the old man bought them new he wants 8000.00 for the pair, i offered him 4000.00 for the pair, he got red. to say the least he still has them too, if you leave a turbo car totall stock gn that is, they will run almost for ever, a stock one will get great gas millage, just a old man that likes fast cars,...

 

[GNVAIR]

Listen to the advice. With that kind of mileage you can expect to be replacing most of the engine gaskets (especially the front and rear main seal and oil pan) the timing chain and gears, the valve springs. Definitely put money away for a proper rebuild on the trans. The rear axle pinion seals are notorious on the GM cars to leak.....not a big issue. To check for a posi, look at the RPO sticker on the underside of the trunk lid. RPO G80
To tell if its a real GN can be tricky. You are looking for RPO WE2
The only other way to document a real GN is with a build sheet (which can be found in 1 of the doors right under the door panel) or with an original window sticker. Carfax will say its a T model if you run a vin check.
The power steering leak could be from the reservoir as they can crack or the rubber lines can deteriorate and leak.
Check the driver side header between cylinders 3 and 5 for the common crack. Other things would be to check the oil cooler hoses. I am thinking what else. Oh yeah! The stock plastic mass air meters are made of glass (figuratively speaking) and go bad as well. Get someone to hook up a scan tool and check to see how everything looks. The rough running could be a matter of a tune up or at worse, a bad O2 which isnt uncommon.
The gas gauge could be either a bad connection at the cluster (unlikely) or a bad sender (which I have experienced on my own car). The sender and pump are one unit and can cost $175-up.
It doesnt sound bad for $4000, but these cars do require periodic maintenance to keep them running up to snuff. Hth.

 

[Mustang1969]

GNVAIR:

Driver's side header has been fixed. I'll have to check for the G80 and WE2. We did do a VIN test on CarFax and it did come up as a Grand National. I already told my Dad that we're going this weekend (within walking distance) to finish the compression test. The gas gauge "works" but it moves around a lot, so I think it's the sender. I'll have to look into that. The car only runs rough in Park, so maybe its the timing chain. I know that it runs at the same RPM in Park as it does drive at a stop. The only difference is the gear selection. I'll see if I can get some pics of the car this weekend to post them. See what you guys think. I really like the car, but then again I really like the car my Dad and I found in a field car has never let me down and never will.

Thanks for all your help. Keep posting!

DAVE

 

[Mustang1969]

Okay, Ill let you in on a little secret...
These cars arent as easy to work on as most others.... why?
The technology is very unique in many areas..
Crank sensor, cam sensors, coil pack, they are very different electrically from other cars. How do I know? My car was a carb'd 307 and I transplanted the GN drivetrain. What a electrical nightmare. A lot of GM dealers wont even touch it.. even if they do I assure you they will screw something up with it. (i KNow Ive been there)
Other thing.. the tranny. These cars are notorious for tranny problems. The average joe cannot build trannys for these cars I can tell you that from my really bad experiences.. 3 toasted trannies from local dealers and reputable builders. Tranny problems of any kind are a headache unless you have someone who knows what they are doing with it.
For 4000, add on top of that the cost of what you may have to have done... including a tranny build? Something is very wrong from the sounds of that trans.
These cars can be reliable.. but only when they are in good running conditon to begin with, and if you keep a watchful eye on things.
Dont buy on impulse. You will regret that. Keep looking around.. the for sale section here for example. Also try www.gnttype.org in the classifieds also. Dont jump on the 1st one because its there.
With that said, good luck.

You haven't owned a 1969 Mustang, have you? My car is definitely not a walk in the park, especially since I'm performing a complete restoration on it and hope to drop in a Single or Twin Turbo 302 or take the easy route and get a 460 or 514 crate from Ford Racing Performance Parts. I've been working on the car for six years and I have aquired a lot of information about working on cars due to having to work on my car. From tearing out the power steering assembly twice, to a front end rebuild, rebuilding the brakes, finding and fixing leaks, restoring and maintaining the interior, having to perform MANY MANY MANY electrical tasks, etc. I know that I have a Ford and the topic is a Buick, but I feel I'm more than qualified for such a task.

 

[salvageV6]

Since you like to work on cars and don't seem to get frustrated by them in the learning process it's a perfect 3.5K-4K car for you.

Sounds like you are prepared for a new learning curve.

 

[GNVAIR]

Some of the other guys with agree here OR you can check for yourself at http://www.gnttype.org/general/vin.html
The VIN will in no way tell you if the car is a real GN. What it will tell you is that you have a turbo car by the "7" in the 8 th position of the VIN.

 

[Dan Thompson]

One thing you didn't mention was if the dirvers side header was cracked. This happens between 3 and 5 on almost all the cars.

Rear seal leaks on all of them with the 'rope' type seal. Replace it with the poly type.

If you get this car, first thing you should do is read the below website and get a ScanMaster II from RamChargers.

http://www.gnttype.org/maint/basics.html

PS this site will help you check the car out -

http://www.gnttype.org/general/buyguide.html

HTH

 

[Mustang1969]

Some of the other guys with agree here OR you can check for yourself at http://www.gnttype.org/general/vin.html
The VIN will in no way tell you if the car is a real GN. What it will tell you is that you have a turbo car by the "7" in the 8 th position of the VIN.

I'll be able to check out the car tomorrow, so I'll get the VIN when I'm there. Depending on whether or not if the owner is there, I'll be able to see the option codes.

One thing you didn't mention was if the dirvers side header was cracked. This happens between 3 and 5 on almost all the cars.

I mentioned that it had been fixed a few posts back. So that isn't a problem here. Thanks for the info about the scanning tools. I've been looking through GNTTYPE a lot. I printed out the buyer guide a week ago the first time we took the car for a test drive.

I'll have to contact MY mechanic to see how much the seals will cost to replace. He's good with cars and makes house calls too. I'll keep you guys updated.

Keep posting! Thanks you guys!

 

[Dan Thompson]

Just to give you a heads up on the rear seal. I go to a well known GN shop and they replaced the rear seal and it was maybe $100 labor. I think all they did was drop the pan and rear
main cap.

 

[Mustang1969]

Does anyone know of any GN shops in the San Diego or Riverside County Area? I'm currently in the Murrieta/Temecula area.

 

[Dan Thompson]

Lou's Automotive in Lake Forest is an excellent shop. He is the only one that works on my car except me.

He has done the timing chain, water pump, and rear seal.

BTW, the cranck bolt is torqued to 210 ft pounds. I don't have any air impact wrenches so this is why he did the timing chain.

Should be replaced around the 100k mark.

*-----------------
Lou's Automotive
26911 Vista Terrace, Lake Forest, CA 92630
1 (949) 770 5956
1 (949) 770 6956 FAX

lou@turbolou.com
http://www.turbolou.com

Turbo V6 performance products, tuning, DFI and MOTEC setup

 

[kwik6]

GN

So tell us what happened Mustang1969. Just wondering. Still got the bug? .....Carter

 

[spooky]

my .02

my name is jason and im fairly new this forum.
- i sold my 87 GN in 96 to buy a house (growing pain at the time) my wife in her loving wisdom told me in september to go ahead and go get another (i had to sell my restored 70 lemans in return) so i did and looked and looked. i drove from the pan handle of fl. to miami. on a weekend (12 hr each way) pictures were exchanged and the car looked good, from the angles. anyway went to philly for christmas (ive been relocated) and bought a GN for 3k. i guess the morale of this story is be a little patient. im very happy but be careful these cars can be very technicaly intense, and oh by the way cash talks he wanted more but i flashed 3k in his face and he took. right now car is "as is" needs interior parts other than that the car rips. you can usually buy these cars with mods already in place.

 

[8UWITH6]

I agree on being patient. I searched for probably over a year to find the GN, and about 6 months to find the Ttype.

As for prices, I paid around 5K for my Ttype, with 100,6XX miles on it, no rust, few dings, presentable paint, decent interior, and pretty much dead stock engine and solid drivetrain. I drove it about 19K miles the first year, drove it to Bowling Green and back, etc with little to no problems. (This was after a few little sensors, basic maintenance, and lots of tuning). Last July at 119K miles, I pulled the motor (because I was bored honestly) and did a "freshening". Timing chain and gear, valve springs, welded the drivers side header, all new gaskets, seals, etc and of course cleaned everything up nice and pretty...............as of now, 2 yrs after purchase (Memorial Day 2001), its doing just fine with 136K miles on the clock. Doesnt smoke, doesnt leak, etc. I love it, you put a little lovin into the car, itll last you forever. And when things break, fix em. Hell, I actually kinda like when something breaks or gets out of whack with it, gives me something to do, and something more to learn about!

If your willing to put up with a few headaches here and there, I say go for it.....I think that car would be a good buy around 3500-3800, but verify the problems before you proceed. Check for rust under the doors and such. I dont care that its a GN vs a Ttype or Turbo T, they are all in the same ballpark to me price wise. Do what YOU feel is right. Hell, you could probably take that car for 3500, clean the hell out of it, and do some tuning and basic maintenance and sell it for more than you bought it. Which reminds me, when you went to look at the car, was it cleaned up? If not, you may want to think about how the car has been maintained. My Ttype was filthy and discusting when I looked at it, hell I have pictures of it on my website. If the guy would have at least cleaned the car up some when I went to look at it, he may have gotten a little more for the car. Good luck with your search, sorry for rambling on................

 

[EFFNQWKWE4]

RPO, RPO, RPO, RPO!!!! Go to gnttype.org and get a list of the RPO codes and check them against your trunk sticker. If the car has no trunk sticker, I wouldn't buy it. Be patient with your search for a car. I looked and looked, constantly tracking prices and checking the classifieds on about 5 different sites, then after about a year and a half, found my WE4 for $5k. SOOOOO worth the wait. Good Luck and keep us posted!!