Hydraulic roller or flat tappet?

S

Snorman

Boosted.
Joined
Jun 8, 2001
Looks like a very good chance I'll be doing a shortblock sooner, rather than later.
If so, I'll be using a nice set of ported irons and intake that I've been afraid to bolt-on for fear of damaging the stock bottom end (irony, huh?).
I'm thinking a 212 cam. The builder is recommending that I go to a hydraulic roller. He's a well known guy in Jersey...I tend to put faith in his suggestions.
Benefits?
Negatives (aside from cost)?
Thanks!
S.
 
I'm also re building much sooner than I had planned. Reason is my cam shafts kept wiping #3 exhaust - if I had done the roller first time...
 
LOTS of guys are running fast with the flat tappet, but I do hear about plenty of wiped lobes.
With a relatively small cam, is it worth it?
Also, would I definitely need to switch to a roller rocker?
S.
 
Definitely Roller Rockers regardless of the cam you use. I'd run a billet roller cam. Worth the $. Friction ain't yo friend.
 
I am switching to the comp roller and the only negative I see is that the small metal shaft that retains the lifter roller wheel just adds another possible failure mode to the engine over life. It is in a constant cyclical load, and who knows where on the S-N failure diagrahm the loading is for that small shaft?
I am going to switch out the roller lifters about every 20k?? just to make sure I don't ever fail any roller wheel shafts.
Everything else is pure benefit! No more lobe wipping or friction.
 
One thing I haven't seen mentioned:: Is there any issue running a billet cam with the stock cam sensor gear? Usually on a SBC you have to run a bronze gear otherwise the cam will eat the dist gear. And what about the non billet rollers in the same respect?

Just wondering...hadn't seen it discussed.
 
Originally posted by Snorman
LOTS of guys are running fast with the flat tappet, but I do hear about plenty of wiped lobes.
With a relatively small cam, is it worth it?
Also, would I definitely need to switch to a roller rocker?
S.
Click to expand...

Many folks are running roller cams w/ the stock style shaft rockers, however I would advise that you use HD shafts. All your valve stem heights will need to be on the money. Adj rockers would be nice but not a must.

Boostkillstres.....I did see a post about the gear failure, I'll see if I can dig it up.
 
adjustable roller rockers are nice but I would worry about longevity if you are mainly street. The roller cams have much higher spring pressures and I am going with the stock rocker step up for durability and reliability.
roller rockers are great for race applications, can't be beat.
 
I don't see where a roller rocker would have less durability or longevity than the primitive-style stock rockers. Ford (and other OEMs) used cheap, stamped steel rockers in the 5.0 motors. In '93, they went to a Crane 1.7 roller on the pushrod Cobras.
A RR would have less friction and most that I've seen are pretty beefy. I've got Scorpion 1.6 shaft mounts on the GT's AFR's.
I think it's going to come down to a $$$ issue. Speaking with Dan on Friday, he feels that what I have on the car now, with the heads and intake sitting in my garage, his shortblock with a 212 roller, on good gas, ~25psi and a good tune is worth 10.5-10.7's.
Speed is never cheap, it's just less expensive in some cases. ;)
S.
 
Maybe you are right about the rollers rockers, I do remember Ford putting those rollers in the 5.0 Cobra and Thunderbird. I have a Mopar friend that keeps telling me stories about aluminum rockers breaking under fatigue. I wish someone made a steel roller rocker set up for Buick. Every set up I have seen has been aluminum, but they do look pretty beefy so maybe there is not much to worry about. They are pricey.
 
Save your money and go flat tappet. It works just as good as the roller cams just make sure you break in the cam correctly.:cool:
 
Originally posted by BUICKTR
Save your money and go flat tappet. It works just as good as the roller cams just make sure you break in the cam correctly.:cool:
Click to expand...

It works just as good? First time I have heard that about a roller cam. Have you swapped out a flat for a roller or vice versa?

I know going from about 205/210 to 224/224 did not do much for me with no other changes. But I am seriously considering a roller due to 2 wiped cams. Break in was exactly as recommended by the manufacturer which is about just what I have read about cam break in for 30 years. I do not believe in coincidence and I have read of lots of cams wiping #3e, in the TR engine; caused by lifter misalignment, and corrected by compensation in the grind is needed. Every lobe and lifter looked great both times, except for #3e.
 
Blown&Injected

I never had a lope wipe on me. We always check the lope taper direction on each lope on the cams that I have used. I have found a couple of cams with the wrong lope tapper direction that I had to sent back to get corrected(get a new cam) before I installed in car. And yes the problem lies in the #3e. The taper on the cam is sometimes wrong. I still prefer a flat tappet over a roller in the 109 block. If going S1 or S2 then for sure you would want a nice hyd Roller or solid Roller.:)
 
If stinkin' AOL will stay connected maybe I'll get this through


It would be great to save the big $$$, especially if there is not much difference. What ever I have read about cheap rollers, it seems like it will cost over $1,000, to be up and running with a roller.

How does one go about checking the taper and what should the taper look like (what makes it different) on the #3e? - I have heard it called a reverse cut taper and I have some notion about what that may look like, I am not sure - never looked at a new cam all that hard - looked after pulling it.

After two wiped #3e I am scared of another flat tap hyd.

Thanks
 
A roller will cost, but that's where the only disadvantage lies. Hands down, the roller is much better then a flat tappet. You can run fast with either ( I loved my Lunati 210/205 flat ), but a roller will give you a larger window at a given lift and that translates into torque. The valve will open sooner and close later via the design of roller lobe and the roller lifters ability to follow that profile. You also won't have to bother with cam break in or wiping lobes. Brian
 
What Fuelie600 said, plus the roller eliminates a major source of friction, and thus heat. Friction is not our friend- except for brakes, of course!
 
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