how to identify a stage vehicle

A

Andeww Thomasy

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
im trying to figure out what identifies a staged engine or vehicle i recently bought a 1987 t type mostly stock motor and some from what i understand pretty mild upgrades but in a few years i would like to pull the motor and replace it with maybe a fully built 3.8 or a stroker maybe TT or turbo v8 swap but before then im doing my research and trying to learn how to identify engines and what i need to know to build one or buy one causei believe im currently pushing the limits of my stock block
 
Andeww Thomasy said:
im trying to figure out what identifies a staged engine or vehicle i recently bought a 1987 t type mostly stock motor and some from what i understand pretty mild upgrades but in a few years i would like to pull the motor and replace it with maybe a fully built 3.8 or a stroker maybe TT or turbo v8 swap but before then im doing my research and trying to learn how to identify engines and what i need to know to build one or buy one causei believe im currently pushing the limits of my stock block
Click to expand...
What makes you think your pushing the limits of you stock block? You know, you can go pretty damned fast with a well built stocker.

But to answer your question, the biggest give away (at a glance) of a Stage motor in an engine compartment would be the 14 bolt heads. Some Stage motors (Stage-1's) don't have 14 bolt heads, but they have the extra meat in those areas to drill and tap for them. So most people do. If you look down between the header tubes, you will see the additional bolts/studs and nuts.

If you look under the block, you will see the turbo "6" cast into it. (I think this is all of them)

Many stage motors have oil pressure fed from external hoses direct to the block. Some feed to the front. Mine feeds to the back.

Internally, there are a lot of differences. But these things not only just vary from stock blocks, they also vary a lot from other Stage blocks.

All stage blocks have provisions for 4 bolt center mains caps. Some have provisions for all 4 mains to be 4 bolt. Some can be made to have 6 bolts.

There is more beef in a lot of areas.

Some are on center, some are off center.

The list goes on...............

Check this out below, tons of photos and part numbers.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/blocks/blockguide.html
 
NY Twin Turbo said:
What makes you think your pushing the limits of you stock block? You know, you can go pretty damned fast with a well built stocker.

But to answer your question, the biggest give away (at a glance) of a Stage motor in an engine compartment would be the 14 bolt heads. Some Stage motors (Stage-1's) don't have 14 bolt heads, but they have the extra meat in those areas to drill and tap for them. So most people do. If you look down between the header tubes, you will see the additional bolts/studs and nuts.

If you look under the block, you will see the turbo "6" cast into it. (I think this is all of them)

Many stage motors have oil pressure fed from external hoses direct to the block. Some feed to the front. Mine feeds to the back.

Internally, there are a lot of differences. But these things not only just vary from stock blocks, they also vary a lot from other Stage blocks.

All stage blocks have provisions for 4 bolt center mains caps. Some have provisions for all 4 mains to be 4 bolt. Some can be made to have 6 bolts.

There is more beef in a lot of areas.

Some are on center, some are off center.

The list goes on...............

Check this out below, tons of photos and part numbers.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/blocks/blockguide.html
Click to expand...

From what I understand the stock block is,only capable,of handling like 500 to 600 hp and I'm pushing somewhere in low 500 with stock internals for the most part...so I believe in pushing the limits but thank you for the info I would be fine with doing a build on a stock block with forged internals same turbo and just seeing what I can do my projections are a reliable 650-700hp car for daily driving conditions at some point anyways this is a developing plan
 
A stock block can be made as fast as you will ever need for a driver.

Street drivability is mostly lost with the other mods you will make to go fast. Of course, your tolerance for inconvenience and comfort is a factor in this. You will need to give up a whole selection of street friendly things no matter what block you use. The same car running mid 9's with a stock block or stage block will both need to have the same fit-out of supporting modifications. Neither engine will make the car feel more street friendly.
 
Last edited:
NY Twin Turbo said:
I stock block can be made as fast as you will ever need for a driver.

Street drivability is mostly lost with the other mods you will make to go fast. Of course, your tolerance for inconvenience and comfort is a factor in this. You will need to give up a whole selection of street friendly things no matter what block you use. The same car running mid 9's with a stock block or stage block will both need to have the same fit-out of supporting modifications. Neither engine will make the car feel more street friendly.
Click to expand...
Right now I'm already sacrificing a.c. and heat the trans is modified 200r4 and I imagine the rear end will need more modification but what would I really need to sacrifice that I'm not already giving up..I just want some more horsepower but reliability in the engine ...like not have to worry about the engine falling apart I understand when you push power you run the risk of breaking things so I want to build power and reliability
 
Andeww Thomasy said:
Right now I'm already sacrificing a.c. and heat the trans is modified 200r4 and I imagine the rear end will need more modification but what would I really need to sacrifice that I'm not already giving up..I just want some more horsepower but reliability in the engine ...like not have to worry about the engine falling apart I understand when you push power you run the risk of breaking things so I want to build power and reliability
Click to expand...
The heat and AC thing is not what I meant about giving up street comfort. You don't have give that stuff up.
I'm talking about the whole package. Too much to mention actually. But I know that every member here who has a 700 HP TR couldn't sell it to my Mom and have her think it's a street car. Again, it goes back to what I said earlier........ It all depends on what your definition is of street car is.

Now, back to the stage/stock block thing............

If your motor has stock internals, those components are your current limiting factor. Not your block. It's time for a good build. When you get to making a true 700+ HP and you feel it's still streetable.......then maybe start looking at a stage block. Besides, it will sharpen you knowledge and skills for the occasion. Most owners of stage builds will spend 3 times what they spend on a stock block build.

And you may not be even close to the 500 HP/ mid 10's your guessing about. Parts don't garantee time slips or HP. Tunning, supporting items and set-up, and total package may. And in my case, even a driver is needed.

It's kinda a process.
 
You can put all of the same parts in a 109 as a stage block. I bet I have less into my stage 2 as many have in their stroked 109s. A stage 2 block doesnt magically make more horsepower. It is just a container for the parts.
 
What are your ET goals? I've see 650 hp dyno sheets for cars the run 11s and 550 hp dyno sheets for cars that run 9.8.
 
forcefed3.8's said:
You can put all of the same parts in a 109 as a stage block. I bet I have less into my stage 2 as many have in their stroked 109s. A stage 2 block doesnt magically make more horsepower. It is just a container for the parts.
Click to expand...
Yes, but this isn't always the case (most times it isn't). And he doesn't even have the option of swapping internals from his stock block to a stage block. Because he has to buy both the block and internals.

But streetability will be the same. Yes, structurally you may have a great deal more reliability. But whats the difference if he doesn't use it as a driver anymore?
Keeping it drivable is more of a function of how savvy he is when making his modification decisions.
 
Drivability of my car is great. I suffer now, with manual brakes, manual steering, and a spool in the rearend, but I ran 8s with power everything, and an eaton posi. The car drove no different than when it ran 11s.
 
forcefed3.8's said:
Drivability of my car is great. I suffer now, with manual brakes, manual steering, and a spool in the rearend, but I ran 8s with power everything, and an eaton posi. The car drove no different than when it ran 11s.
Click to expand...
Yes, the manual steering, spool, manual brakes, along with the jungle-gym cage, parachute, 4-1/2" front tires, 5 point racing harnesses, loss of an automatic OD tranny, 3" strait through exhaust and mufflers............and I'm sure my Mom will still think it drives just like it did when it ran mid 11's !:LOL:

Hey, I'm not picking on you. I'm in the same boat! And I think I drive a street car too(y)
 
I ran 8s with no cage, front full size radial tires, the only thing removed was heat and ac, and it had a th400, which doesnt bother me. Other than those 2 things, it was the same car it was when running 11s. Thats the beauty of these cars, they are pretty mild. I liked this car the best with the old 8.9 combo. I like the cage for the safety factor, and it is nicely done and looks killer, but it has taken away from the car some.
 
forcefed3.8's said:
I ran 8s with no cage, front full size radial tires, the only thing removed was heat and ac, and it had a th400, which doesnt bother me. Other than those 2 things, it was the same car it was when running 11s. Thats the beauty of these cars, they are pretty mild. I liked this car the best with the old 8.9 combo. I like the cage for the safety factor, and it is nicely done and looks killer, but it has taken away from the car some.
Click to expand...
Yup, like I said earlier. It depends on how savvy one is when making his choices. (y)
 
I'm looking for something I can drive as a daily driver I want to keep the OD 200r4 cause I plan on driving a lot but occassionally go to the track and run good times ...I don't really know how to explain what I want cause I guess I'm not really understanding what yougues think streetability is? I want something that make monster power and drives daily as comfortably as I drive it now
 
The reason I asked about the stage blocks was because I read somewhere on this site that the stock blocks were only good for 500 to maybe 600 horsepower and I wanted something that would be reliable at the numbers I wanted and not run the risk of needing to be rebuilt or major components rebuilt every year
 
You never said what "really good times" is. What do you run right now? Bet a better torque converter would change your times for sure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Engine Harness Connector ID?
Replies
9
Views
808
Chuck Leeper
Chuck Leeper
R
What is needed to put a 153 (on center) engine into a TR?
Replies
13
Views
2K
Mr.Spool
M
O
I bought a 1987 Grand National !
Replies
3
Views
509
Late2TheGame
L
J
Found an 87 GN that has been sitting for 10+ years in storage..
Replies
10
Views
612
granitestategn
G
E
How to identify Drop Spindles
Replies
13
Views
2K
greeneyegi
G
Top