Hope someone reads this (long)

chadly

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
The knowledge on this site is second to none and I’ve seen a lot resolved issues go way with your help. I need some help and I now this will get long so sorry in advance.

2002 I brought the car out of storage and decided to do some upgrades. Tested the compression and it was good so I decided to go ahead with the upgrades. The car was completely stock other than an art carr shift kit and it ran great. Installed all parts in my signature and then drove the car mildly for a few weeks. When I started to get aggressive with the car I noticed that on top end of first gear it would run out of power. Top of first the car was pulling hard then the nose would drop, shift gears, then start to make power again. RPM and boost stay high through all of this. I then replaced valve springs but no change. Then I was told to try a new ignition module. I replaced that, but again no change. Then I tried a new heated 02 sensor. Again no change. I then went to a few transmission shops and took the owners for a drive. All shops concluded that it appeared that the 2nd gear band was worn, but would they would not no for sure without getting inside the transmission. I went with a guy known for turbo Buicks in Detroit area. Once the transmission was apart there was very little wear observed, but we went ahead and had a stronger transmission built. I got the car back and no change. I took the car back to him and he worked on it for a few days trying different set ups but he could not make the stall go away. He concluded the transmission was perfect and the car would never shift right with my stall. I picked the car up on a flat bed and moved to Iowa. Frustrated and out play money the car went into storage.

2007 Five years later I’m ready to play again. Brought the car home, dropped the fuel tank, installed new fuel, fuel filter, and fuel pump. I then put the stock torque converter, injectors, and chip in the car. No change in the car however I do notice that if I quickly go from the break to the gas the car falls on its face. I also notice that medium acceleration 8-10 psi of boost the car lays good rubber between first and second. WOT from first to second it falls on its face. I then put in new rear main seal and timing chain. While doing this I noticed the main ground that gets connected to the bottom of the turbo was never connected back up when I replaced the turbo five years ago. I was excited to find this, but after hooking it back up no change took place. I then put my new injectors, torque converter, and chip back in. I then adjusted the crank sensor, tps sensor, and cam sensor. I’ve now installed a scan master and found a chip that runs the car at all the normal levels (little rich all around). The other night I tried a new ECM but no change.

I’ve budget some money to make upgrades to the car this summer but I must fix this issue first.

Summary:
1) car stumbles/almost dies if you quickly go from the break to the gas and floor it ( I know it’s a little rich on fuel)
2) top of first gear at WOT car looses power, shifts gears, then starts to make power again
3) medium acceleration of 8-10 psi of boost the car shifts very hard leaving good rubber on the road

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
Chad
 
Sounds like you're going lean as you get into more boost, and the ECM pulls fuel and timing. Do the following:

gnttype.org spring cleaning
list all your mods, inc specifics on your chip
list your scanmaster #s
set your fuel pressure to 43 line off


Do you have a boost gauge other than the factory one, and what is the boost where is starts breaking up?
 
What RPM is your engine going flat? The stock cam is all done @ around 5,400. Your shift point might be set too high. Brian
 
Wow thanks for all the replies.

Took the car for a drive this morning and this is what I found.

I did the spring cleaning all except for the differential oil.
My fuel pressure is set at 43 with line off.
I do have another boost gage other than factory.
Chip is set for 14.7 boost, 22° timing (this chip is suppose to be the 1992 recall chip).
Scan numbers are:
02 804 and 0 retard 3rd gear WOT
BL 105 cruise, 128 under laod
ATS 64 cruise, 97 idle
IAC 56 cruise, 20 idle
AF 31 cruise, 05 idle
LB 93 cruise, 38 idle
INT 128 cruise, 112/122 idle
TPS .46 & 4.4 WOT engine off

I did replace the valve springs, and the ignition module, but I did not dot he coil pack.
The shifts are about 5100rpm.

Really appreciate all the replies. I’m willing to check about any thing. I really think the car is running too rich. It seems like it’s choked out if I get into the throttle too fast. Check gas mileage over a 200 mile trip and it was at20.4 but I was easy on it.

Thanks
Chad
 
Took the car for a drive this morning and this is what I found.

I did the spring cleaning all except for the differential oil.
My fuel pressure is set at 43 with line off.
I do have another boost gage other than factory.
Chip is set for 14.7 boost, 22° timing (this chip is suppose to be the 1992 recall chip).
Scan numbers are:
02 804 and 0 retard 3rd gear WOT
BL 105 cruise, 128 under laod
ATS 64 cruise, 97 idle
IAC 56 cruise, 20 idle
AF 31 cruise, 05 idle
LB 93 cruise, 38 idle
INT 128 cruise, 112/122 idle
TPS .46 & 4.4 WOT engine off

I did replace the valve springs, and the ignition module, but I did not dot he coil pack.
The shifts are about 5100rpm.

Really appreciate all the replies. I’m willing to check about any thing. I really think the car is running too rich. It seems like it’s choked out if I get into the throttle too fast. Check gas mileage over a 200 mile trip and it was at20.4 but I was easy on it.

Thanks
Chad

Chad, I believe your off idle and WOT issues are seperate. You don't mention whether your IAC idle counts are in gear or P/N. I would shoot for 10-15 in P/N, and 30-35 in gear. Raise your TPS WOT to over 4.50 but less than 4.80. Also, take your car for a ride and let me know @ what RPM your motor goes flat. Brian
 
I forgot to mention that you must set your IAC counts first, then readjust your TPS #'s.
 
You're sig has 009 injectors...if you're trying to run a stock chip with those injectors that may be your problem...you NEED to use a chip matched to your injectors...
 
Thanks guys.

I can’t get the IAC’s below 21. Does not matter which way I adjust the screw it only goes up. What do I need to do to get them down? Adjusting the TPS at this IAC I have it set at .46 and 4.58 at WOT. There seems to be a bit of difference between my stock tack (stock always reads a bit higher) and the scan master on the rpm’s. The scan master read as low as 4450 and as high as 4950 when the car goes flat.

Is it possible the transmission is not making enough pressure to shift firm on the WOT’s? Sure shift hard on medium throttle.

The chip is a seven position chip that is burned for the 009’s. The setting I’m using to get my numbers is supposedly the same as the stock chip (shift points, boost, and timing).

Thanks for all the help.
Chad
 
Forgot to mention the IAC’s at 21 were with the car in park.

I did try the tv cable and unfortunately does not make the problem go away.

Thanks
Chad
 
I had a similar tip in stumble that turned out to be a bad tps. you could set it all day long at .42-.46 but when I finally switched it out the problem was gone. just a thought.
 
Thanks guys.

I can’t get the IAC’s below 21. Does not matter which way I adjust the screw it only goes up. What do I need to do to get them down? Adjusting the TPS at this IAC I have it set at .46 and 4.58 at WOT. There seems to be a bit of difference between my stock tack (stock always reads a bit higher) and the scan master on the rpm’s. The scan master read as low as 4450 and as high as 4950 when the car goes flat.

Is it possible the transmission is not making enough pressure to shift firm on the WOT’s? Sure shift hard on medium throttle.

The chip is a seven position chip that is burned for the 009’s. The setting I’m using to get my numbers is supposedly the same as the stock chip (shift points, boost, and timing).

Thanks for all the help.
Chad

My opinion is that your camshaft is limiting your RPM's.

As for your IAC's, try shutting off the motor and then recheck on the restart. If nothing, remove the IAC motor, clean the air passages of carbon, and recheck. Your idle TPS count is a bit too high, get it down to .42-.44. Brian
 
bad cam?

Thanks again.

I will see what the price of new tps is. If not too much I will just buy one. If they are expensive I will see if I can swap with someone to see if that helps.

Brian are you saying my cam is just not capable of these rpm’s? Or are you thinking its bad/flat? :confused:

What is the lift on a stock cam? Is it accurate to put a dial indicator on the rocker arm and measure the height while still on the car? Has anyone measured cam height this way? Did it give accurate results?

Thanks Chad
 
Cam

Hi,
I think it is likely you have cam issues, and I will elaborate. My car was a dog on the top end, and like your situation, the problem didn't seem to want to go away. I finally got to the point that I couldn't stand it any more. The car was missing and bucking on normal acceleration.Ignition was not a factor. I pulled the motor, convinced that I had a blown head gasket. Right... After teardown,I took a long look at the camshaft. 3 lobes were badly worn, and a couple more were on the way out. I am convinced that this was my issue all along. Anyway, it was a good thing to find out what REALLY happened. Good luck with your issues!
 
Chip?

Have you tried a different Chip? I just got my car back together and I am in the process of tuning it. Anyway with a TT chip It ran great and pulled hard up to at least 100. So, since we can never leave well enough alone, I had a new Trasher chip for 009s that I thought I would try. It wasn't nearly as crisp, and when it shifted to 3rd the car fell on it's face. I messed some with the fueling but no difference. Put the TT chip back in and it pulls hard again.

I would try a different chip.

Dave
 
thanks, any more ideas?

I’ve tried a different chip for my current injectors but it made no difference. I also put the stock injectors in with the appropriate chip and again no difference.

Again, has anyone tested cam lift with cam and heads still in the car? Is there a way to test if your cam is showing signs of wear? I recently replaced the rear main seal and I did not see anything in the oil pick up screen.

Thanks
Chad
 
I'm not indicating that your cam is worm, although it is certainly a good possiblilty. What I meant, is that the stock cam is all done @ around 5,400 rpm, and simply is out of it's designed range.
 
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