Heads and Cam Q's
- Thread starter Tow Man
- Start date
BoostKillsStres
TIRE-FRYER VIA HAIR-DRYER
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
From all the sigs and combos I've studied at your and my level heads and a small cam should give you around .5 and 5 mph depending tuning. They're basically my next step also but I'm waiting to see how the new TA heads are gonna perform because of the massive preproduction flow numbers that have been quoted. I'm very interested to see how 100+cfm intake runner increase will do on our small engines.
From what I've seen right around mid 11's the stock heads and cam become a limiting factor.... Sure some have gone low 11's and there are even those that have gone high 10's with the stock longblock, however, the norm is usually right about where you are at (high to mid 11 second range at best).... So yes IMO a nice set of ported iron heads like the Champions and a good flat tappet or hyd. roller cam would definitely help, but there are some other things to consider.... The biggest question is how fast do you want to go? If you want high 10's and you plan on going with a set of ported heads and a cam I would go a little bigger with the injectors like 55's and you of course would have to send your ECM out to be modded for larger injectors.... Also, I think your slicks are a bit on the small side if you want to go faster than mid 11's so I'd get some 28 X 10.5's, but again a lot of this depends on how fast you want to go as well as how much you have to spend!
HTH
HTH
at this point, heads and a bigger turbo would make the biggest difference
you can improve your cam at the same time, but not much to be gained by just a cam....the idea with the cam is to raise your power band a bit and get some more rpm.....don't really want to do that unless you do the heads
I would guess you can get that combo into the mid 11's with some higher boost and maybe into the 11.30's (we are talking 28-30 lbs...)
with just a set of good heads, you'll be low 11's at 25 lbs or less...add a bigger turbo and a cam, and you'll see 10's
you can improve your cam at the same time, but not much to be gained by just a cam....the idea with the cam is to raise your power band a bit and get some more rpm.....don't really want to do that unless you do the heads
I would guess you can get that combo into the mid 11's with some higher boost and maybe into the 11.30's (we are talking 28-30 lbs...)
with just a set of good heads, you'll be low 11's at 25 lbs or less...add a bigger turbo and a cam, and you'll see 10's
Thanks to all for your advise.
I'm running 25 PSI boost now. I know I can probably tune out another tenth or two with the current combo.
What I'd like to do, is run low 11's (teens/twentys) without running on the ragged edge if you know what I mean. 30 psi is in the scary zone
I plan on changing to 28" tires soon.
The performance advantages of aluminum heads are great. Aluminum heads on a iron block worries me a little on the street though. The different rates of expansion and contraction between the two metals seem to be very hard on head gaskets.
I have read many treads on the Champion Aluminum, and it seems to be a toss up. Half the folks prefer the GN1's, and half the irons
Anyone running aluminum on the street with good long term results? I don't want to start another iron vs alum war. I'd like to hear from people that have long term, first hand experience with alum in a street / strip car.
Thanks again
I'm running 25 PSI boost now. I know I can probably tune out another tenth or two with the current combo.
What I'd like to do, is run low 11's (teens/twentys) without running on the ragged edge if you know what I mean. 30 psi is in the scary zone
I plan on changing to 28" tires soon.
The performance advantages of aluminum heads are great. Aluminum heads on a iron block worries me a little on the street though. The different rates of expansion and contraction between the two metals seem to be very hard on head gaskets.
I have read many treads on the Champion Aluminum, and it seems to be a toss up. Half the folks prefer the GN1's, and half the irons
Anyone running aluminum on the street with good long term results? I don't want to start another iron vs alum war. I'd like to hear from people that have long term, first hand experience with alum in a street / strip car.
Thanks again
Tow Man,
I was in the the same situtation as you, I ran 113 on BFGDR's last year. Wanted to do heads and cam and it came down to a $400 difference on the price from my vendor between the Champion alum and iron. Did alot of research and mine changing back and forth. Decided to go with the alum's and Cometic head gaskets. The car will be back running this week and I'll know more soon. Feel real good about my decision though.
I was in the the same situtation as you, I ran 113 on BFGDR's last year. Wanted to do heads and cam and it came down to a $400 difference on the price from my vendor between the Champion alum and iron. Did alot of research and mine changing back and forth. Decided to go with the alum's and Cometic head gaskets. The car will be back running this week and I'll know more soon. Feel real good about my decision though.
Originally posted by Not Avg 6
Tow Man,
I was in the the same situtation as you, I ran 113 on BFGDR's last year. Wanted to do heads and cam and it came down to a $400 difference on the price from my vendor between the Champion alum and iron. Did alot of research and mine changing back and forth. Decided to go with the alum's and Cometic head gaskets. The car will be back running this week and I'll know more soon. Feel real good about my decision though.
Hey, good luck with the new combo!
I would really like to know how you like it once everything is buttoned up and running.
My only concern with aluminum on iron is leakage and reliability. Not that my car is a daily driver, but I like to be able to jump in it and go anywhere without too many worries.
Let us know how you make out! Thanks
Originally posted by Tow Man
My only concern with aluminum on iron is leakage and reliability. Not that my car is a daily driver, but I like to be able to jump in it and go anywhere without too many worries.
No flames here TowMan, just time to vent.
I agree in some part that there is less to worry about with iron heads. Aluminum heads are one of the best upgrades you can do to a engine. You know we are not talking about the Cosworth Vega crap of the 70s, where melt downs were common.
Almost all new engines have aluminum heads. My 1997 Mailbu has aluminum heads on an iron block. We always hear that GM did most things right when they built our cars. What makes anyone think that they are not now, with all if the aluminum headed engines running around with 200,000 miles on them. Hell even the trucks come with them now!!
Many friends of mine have aluminum heads on iron SBC engines. There are no problems if you use the right head gaskets and verify that your deck is straight.
Driveability issues, I don't see where this is going to be a problem. Just the fact that the heads are aluminum make the engine respond better in general and to mods.
I have no idea where all of these bad aluminum head stories come from. Back in the 70's and 80's I could see it, but now the tooling and production quality of these heads are much better. How many sets of Edlebrock aluminum heads are out there on daily drivers.
I doubt we see any more aluminum head failures than cam failures, etc where common mistakes can be made.
These Buick engines respond very well with the aluminum heads. I will eventually go with aluminum as well. Right now I have ported irons which perform quite well.
Off the BOX now....
Aluminum Heads...
My concern for aluminum heads would be the higher potential for blown head gaskets. Yes, Chevys and Fords use aluminum heads, but both of those engines have a better head bolt set-up than the Buicks. Since aluminum is not as stiff as cast iron, the heads will flex a little more, and it would seem that there would be at least a slightly higher risk of blown gaskets, all other things being equal. Of course, when you put on new heads, you would use new bolts, and going from stock bolts to ARP will give more clamping force, and cut down on leaky gaskets, so maybe it all balances out. And maybe the head designers put a little more aluminum in the right places, so the heads turn out to be as stiff as the iron ones. On the other hand, the higher head conduction of aluminum might make detonation less likely, and that advantage may make up for the stiffness difference. I don't really know, but it is a question mark relative to the aluminum heads.
My concern for aluminum heads would be the higher potential for blown head gaskets. Yes, Chevys and Fords use aluminum heads, but both of those engines have a better head bolt set-up than the Buicks. Since aluminum is not as stiff as cast iron, the heads will flex a little more, and it would seem that there would be at least a slightly higher risk of blown gaskets, all other things being equal. Of course, when you put on new heads, you would use new bolts, and going from stock bolts to ARP will give more clamping force, and cut down on leaky gaskets, so maybe it all balances out. And maybe the head designers put a little more aluminum in the right places, so the heads turn out to be as stiff as the iron ones. On the other hand, the higher head conduction of aluminum might make detonation less likely, and that advantage may make up for the stiffness difference. I don't really know, but it is a question mark relative to the aluminum heads.
Intercooler
New Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Standard run of the mill cars not pushing 30 PSI of boost or high cylinder pressures with 8 head bolts I would expect no less. Most guys trying to approach the amount of boost required to run low 10's or 9's seem to have better luck with irons not lifting the heads due to rigidity. The aluminums have more give and will lift under less boost from what I have seen on here. The result is head gasket problems. Since the new 2nd generation GN-1's seem to have fixed the cracking problem that isn't much of an issue. I don't know about the guide problem as it hasn't cropped up much lately either.Originally posted by bsdlinux
Aluminum heads are one of the best upgrades you can do to a engine. You know we are not talking about the Cosworth Vega crap of the 70s, where melt downs were common.
Almost all new engines have aluminum heads. My 1997 Mailbu has aluminum heads on an iron block. We always hear that GM did most things right when they built our cars. What makes anyone think that they are not now, with all if the aluminum headed engines running around with 200,000 miles on them. Hell even the trucks come with them now!!
Many friends of mine have aluminum heads on iron SBC engines. There are no problems if you use the right head gaskets and verify that your deck is straight.
Driveability issues, I don't see where this is going to be a problem. Just the fact that the heads are aluminum make the engine respond better in general and to mods.
I have no idea where all of these bad aluminum head stories come from. Back in the 70's and 80's I could see it, but now the tooling and production quality of these heads are much better. How many sets of Edlebrock aluminum heads are out there on daily drivers.
I doubt we see any more aluminum head failures than cam failures, etc where common mistakes can be made.
These Buick engines respond very well with the aluminum heads. I will eventually go with aluminum as well. Right now I have ported irons which perform quite well.
Off the BOX now....
On a side note, how often do we hear of cracked irons, valve guide problems, leaks, etc...? I can't recall one.
The aluminums have their advantages no doubt but for 90% of us a "proven" set of worked irons is just great for a street car.
I got the car running with the new combo!
This head and cam package is the BIGGEST seat of the pants improve that I've ever done to my GN. Street mode (15-17psi w/93 octane) feels like race mode (25psi w/112oct) with the stock long block from last year's combo. It's very impressive.
This head and cam package is the BIGGEST seat of the pants improve that I've ever done to my GN. Street mode (15-17psi w/93 octane) feels like race mode (25psi w/112oct) with the stock long block from last year's combo. It's very impressive.
Originally posted by Not Avg 6
I got the car running with the new combo!
This head and cam package is the BIGGEST seat of the pants improve that I've ever done to my GN. Street mode (15-17psi w/93 octane) feels like race mode (25psi w/112oct) with the stock long block from last year's combo. It's very impressive.
COOL!
Now get that thing to the track! What cam did you go with?bsdlinux, no flame taken. I do not doubt the performance potential of aluminum! They are however not without problems. I know technology has come a long way since the 80's, but that's not enough evidence for me! There are a few things that casting technology has not solved. (1) Aluminum doesn't take well to overheating! I'm sure most of us are smart enough not to let it run at elevated temps, but overheating is a part of life sooner or later in a street driven vehicle. (2) Aluminum and Iron do not expand and contract at the same rates. This causes a "walk" between the surfaces and destroys gaskets. (3) Forget about steel shim gaskets with aluminum heads. The reaction between metals will corrode the gaskets in short order!
I am asking for real world results from those that are running the GN1's on the street. I want to hear about how many seasons trouble free? How many miles trouble free? and so on.
I can't except an answer that just states "well , technology is better now"
Performance is important, but so is reliability. I want to acheive the best possible combination of both without sacrificing much of either. I'm not looking to start another head comparison war. Just real world experiences with the GN1's. That's all I'm asking.
Thank you sir. Look forward to your input. Good luck with the install! Hope it goes smooth
My e-mail is nightowl340@yahoo.com if you prefer.
