Frustrated New GN owner

BOP4ever said:
.....I remember driving a 87 TRans AM GTA stock about 10 years ago and it felt faster than my GN does... it would at least spin the tires if you nailed it from a stop.... I just can't figure it out right now it runs so well and smooth just lacks grunt no missing or hiccups no ping or odd noises trans seems to shift firm mpg is right ! It's almost quick but feels like a economy car with a automatic... sort of like my Wifes sisters Civic...smooth .......
Click to expand...

That is reasonable.......

What you may not realize... is the V8 makes much more low end grunt than the v6 does when it isn't boosting.... after all .... it is only 3.8L .... and very low compression..... with crappy heads..... You have to brake build boost before you leave the line to get the turbo spooled up to make the torque move all that mass. The 87 GN is heavier than the GTA....

I'd put a stock '87 GN up next to a stock '87 GTA anyday if the guy driving the GN knew how to drive it.

You think the guys running fast with these cars... just put it in gear and nail it to get thos times? Not hardly..... you want torque? you want ET? get some good tires.... and brake build boost before you launch.

Drive it like you stole it!
 
I guess racing from a roll is a very bad Idea then...
So bringing the car up on the brake to the point of spinning then releasing it when the light goes green is the only way to make these cars run well ?
 
BOP4ever said:
I guess racing from a roll is a very bad Idea then...
So bringing the car up on the brake to the point of spinning then releasing it when the light goes green is the only way to make these cars run well ?
Click to expand...

Racing from a roll still has the same "turbo lag" that you would experience from a stop..... some people put a different boost controller to speed up the spoolup. This tends minimize this. The RJC boost controller is probably the simplest one that can reduce spoolup time.

Yes bringing the car up on the brake to the point of tirespin will make these cars ET lots better than not doing it. That is why sticky tires make such a big difference.... you can build alot more boost w/o spinning.... and when you do release the brake..... things pick-up much quicker.

HTH
 
Are you sure the MAF is an origianl GM MAF? If it came from an auto parts store it is a reman and they are very common casues of poor performance. If your car runs as bad as you say it does it has a problem. What the problem is is hard to diagnos over the internet. My GN went 13.32 @ 100 on a pair of factory 215/65 tires with nothing but a chip and a K&N and exhaust. Your car is 20 years old and its hard to say what has happened to it in those 20 years. I had a blue T about 6 years ago that had the trans replaced at some point in its life and had a non BRF 200r4 with a non D-5 converter. It was a slug out of the hole because it had about a 1800 stall instead of the factory 2200 and it short shifted every gear because it was not BRF calibarted. A previous owner probably had a trans problem a trans shop swapped them in a new one---honest mistake for a non-enthusist to make. My point is that you have to get in there and figure out why it doesn't run right. If the valve springs are original regardless of mileage they need to be replaced. Is the trans correct? Its easy to check out. Does the wasteagate work correctly? Is the MAF a reman.? Have you done a compression test? Have you tried a vacuum gauge to ensure it is smooth and has proper vacuum? Have you test the fuel pressure at wide open throttle? Have you replaced the fuel filter? Have you checked the TPS at idle and WOT?
 
All good questions...
I think the MAF came from the Dealer ith that means anything....the guy warned me about other MAfs saying he was lucky to get another GM...
Rebuilt maybe so...

No blow by that I can tell, no oil leaks ,... I have a 2 inch thick binder and there is no mention of a trans replacement and it all looks original under the car.
It is shifting at about 5000 rpm btw.
Stall seem to be about 2200 from what I can see ...
I don't have hose long enough to check FP on the run....
I know I have lots of bases to cover thanks for pointed it out and I will get around to them... The engine has no blow by and the vacuum signal at idel is very smooth and on shut down the injectors are holding pressure so they are not leaking down....
The 90 plus degree heat is probably not helping either...
 
Lots of great advice here, but I'll go ahead and put in my .02.

I would browse Vortex Turbo Buick Performance and Turbo Regal Web Site for as much info as possible. Keller from gnttype has all the info you'll need on getting the most out of a stock Turbo Regal.

I noticed you've got a fairly low mile Buick, so I wouldn't start swapping turbo's, IC's, DP's, etc. just yet. My 87 was just recently reworked w/some of the aforementioned bolt ons. Before then, I had the following stock parts: inj's, IC w/dutt neck, turbo, headers and dp with homemade test pipe and still managed to run 14.2 @ 108mph in the qtr. Granted I had Futura street tires, a busted Auburn, and 0 psi launch which equated a best of 2.8 60'. It was a one-wheeled wonder til almost the 1000' mark.

Now, that is not on an unmolested block. Thats a junkyard 3.8 .030 over, Erson 208/208, stock heads ported to hell and back w/3 angle valve job, TRW forged pistons and stock timing gear/chain. I've got zero issues w/the stock timing chain setup. I wouldn't go to double roller unless you go to a hydraulic roller cam set up. Oh yeah, 20psi on stock turbo w/race gas and Thrasher chip. Stock mass air will be just fine as well. No need for the LT1/LS1 yet.

Just keep reading and asking. You have a nice TA, so I'm sure you're familiar with the basics: leaks-vacuum/exhaust, faulty wires/sensors, fuel/air, etc.

Good luck. OBTW, I had the honor of putting a huge smile on my dad's face in the GN; hopefully, you'll do the same SOON.
 
before alky, tt chip, valve springs, ect,ect,,,,,, SCAN MASTER;) ! You could literally be destroying your motor everytime you "punch it" or go WOT:eek: . You must watch for knock retard. Usually it(knock retard) feels like the motor isn't making power. The computer is pulling timing (because it's detecting knock,,,,,which is very bad)trying to protect itself. It can happen at stock boost levels( for many reasons). The problem won't clear itself up no matter how many times you go WOT. If you're lucky, you'll only blow a head gasket.:frown: HTH
Ross
 
Thinking about just ordering a knock detector thing audible type ....
I know what knock is like on my TA .... I can hear it if it is bad .... I understand and appreciate it I have only ran it all the way through once mostly its just on and off to feel it pull or not pull as the case has been. Its about 70 degrees out today... thinking about seeing if the cool air makes much difference....

The car will be most just cruised until next year when I hope ot have a little money to spend on it....I am trying to get a Idea on what I need to get to my goal.... Thanks for the conversation I love to talk cars and I am learning and listening..so thanks again guys !
 
audible is a good addition to a scanmaster but not a replacement. I couldn't hear detonation until around 8-9 degrees of knock retard. I'm just trying to help and can't stress the importance of a scan tool. It isn't fun spending money that isn't on a performance part you it's a "must have".
 
Well, if I were you, here's what I'd do - BEFORE cruising around til next year: Garage it; pull the heads and get 'em reworked; swap your cam and lifters with a mild street cam; and while all that is going on... Get a Scanmaster!

It sounds to me that you have an issue w/your car. If you are boosted to 15psi and do not feel it, then there is a problem. Valve springs, wiped lobe, or whatever - better to tend to it now than to rebuild an entire motor after a year's worth of cruising.
 
update !

74 degrees took it for a spin and after getting back... I looked under the back bumper and I saw it... a bulge ...yep the GN has started to grow a pair IMO.... Cooler air made a big difference !

I nailed it pulling out on the highway from another paved road and had to get out of it as it started sliding sideways when the boost came up... I nailed it at 45 and it put me firmly in the backrest compared to the 95 degree days ! The speedo was moving much faster...I am encouraged..

I had a turbo T-bird and it was the same way althogh even in cold weather it still was a ball-less wonder....just not as ball-less

I will get the ODB1 update for my scanner so I can check for retard.. That is all the scan master is isn't it ? A odb1 scanner the mounts permanent. Id rather set it up and leave the scanner at home unless I am going to the track.
 
BOP4ever said:
74 degrees took it for a spin and after getting back... I nailed it at 45 and it put me firmly in the backrest compared to the 95 degree days ! The speedo was moving much faster...I am encouraged..

I will get the ODB1 update for my scanner so I can check for retard.. That is all the scan master is isn't it ? A odb1 scanner the mounts permanent. Id rather set it up and leave the scanner at home unless I am going to the track.
Click to expand...

It shouldn't matter if its 95, 74, 55, or 105 degrees. If it is tuned properly and everything is working as it should, then the results she be similar. A scantool can consist of a few varieties including what you have and/or want to use. However, there are several TR specific scantools out there that will give you everything you NEED to know plus more, or, like the Scanmaster V2.1 you get the essentials for your car at the cheapest price. Check FULL THROTTLE SPEED - Store Front Page for a new unit or shop around for a used one and save 50-100 bucks. You get more of what you need to know w/this unit. Here are some displayed readings: KR, 02mv's, short and long term memory, IAC, MAF, Air temp, Coolant temp, RPM, MPH, MAL codes, Block learn, Manifold pressure, when you go from open to closed loop, Battery volt, TPS, etc. all in a small box with one button to cycle thru readings.
 
I get most of those reading in real time on my oBD2 cars with my autoxray4000 nad it scrolls easy enough... o2's,fuel trims,TP,Timing,Coolant Temp, MPH, among a few others... It cost 70 bucks for the OBD1 software and Cable.... I will research it and if I am missing something abou tthe scanmaster other than its a little box made for the buick cars...and mounts in the car.

I don't know, but it felt much stronger tonight with 20 degrees cooler inlet air.
Maybe it was wishful thinking LOL ... no it felt faster.
 
It is like everyone is telling you, Know what the car is doing and TIRES and BOOST and know how to drive this car, I have a friend that had a 100 percent stock 87 with a chip and full slicks, He run mid 12's all the time, I have a 87 stock block with some add ons and it isn't running that good but it run 11.18 at 120 in 94* heat but the next run was a 11.50 and then 11.20, Never out of the 11's but all over the place, I run it to see how it would run coming off the line at idle to run et, Cut great lights and run 12.70's, I went three rounds and got beat and a friend took it out and boosted it off the line and run a 11.23 with the tires spinning just a little but it just blew off the line with one wheel in the air, See where I am going
 
going back a little. You went 122 mph in a 77 TA with only exhaust, heads/intake, and a cam???:eek: Are we talking top end or quarter mile:p
Thats hauling.....
Ross
 
That was 1/4 mile in the TA...3950lbs with driver...
Edelbrock heads ( ported ) Holley intake, Hooker headers and a 236/244 @.050 Hyd cam . I have friends with slightly lighter cars and the same combos other than a much bigger solid roller running mid 10's in the high 120's .

It is brutal and sheared the ring gear twisted the drive shaft yoke crushed the ujoints a couple years back on slicks to I retired it from hard drag racing... It was pulling mid 1.5's in the 60 foot.
Totally different than this GN... Tons or power off idle instant reaction to throttle etc....
 
;) All I can say is wow!! What a difference in power I cranked the waste gate in 5 turns 20 psi now , O2s are at .750 no knock and man hold on . I can see why tires are needed. I mashed the gas from a stop started to spool up and hold on ripped the tires. love it.With M/Ts and maybe 5-10psi off the line this will run for sure . Now where is that Mustang. Te-44 ,alky,TT alky chip,and strechted cooler coming soon.
 
blackmonte said:
;) All I can say is wow!! What a difference in power I cranked the waste gate in 5 turns 20 psi now , O2s are at .750 no knock and man hold on . I can see why tires are needed. I mashed the gas from a stop started to spool up and hold on ripped the tires. love it.With M/Ts and maybe 5-10psi off the line this will run for sure . Now where is that Mustang. Te-44 ,alky,TT alky chip,and strechted cooler coming soon.
Click to expand...

You running 20 psi with pump gas? That seems real high (read dangerous as hell) for pump gas.

You get that 44+alky+chip+stretched i/c.... and you will be hunting alot more tire.

That combo is easy 11's on pump gas and alky..... but work your way up slowly.....tune... tune.. tune.

You will love it.
 
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