FAST - ESC testing

R

Roland Black

New Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2001
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My ESC system on my modded Syclone does not work. I have beat the living hell outa the upper intake with a rubber mallet, and then the alternator housing with a steel hammer. I CANNOT get the damn thing to show any ESC retard. I have a large sledge hammer, but really hate to further "dent" the powdercoating.

I spoke with Jim @ PTE today and got info regarding all leads and voltage requirements. I found a ground lead that was open to the ESC module and repaired that. NO difference. I tested the stock SyTy knock sensor as per the Sy supplement, and it tests ok (shows voltage if ya beat on the motor while in the 2v ac mode, with the connector undone). All leads to the knock sensor, ESC module and to the ECM are now good. I also borrowed another known good ESC module from a local TB friend, and still no difference while whipping the **** outa it.

Harry (PTE) wasn't in, but Jim mentioned that Joe thought that there is a place in FAST where you tell it you have a knock sensor. The only thing I have found is the ESC parameters which are filled in. Is there some secret hiding place that I haven't found?

Short of ramming this MF'r into a telephone pole while recording a run, anyone have any other ideas? Thanks in advance,
 
Put that hammer down! :)

You can test the ESC input on the FAST ECU by touching pin H1 to ground. If your harness has the ESC input wire in it, just touch it to ground to activate it. When looking at the laptop, you should see the maximum allowed amount of timing retard being applied.

This test should help narrow down the source of the problem.
 
Hammer? who me?

Thanks Craig,

I will do as you suggest and ground the H1 pin. I'm going to do that at the ESC module, pin C as it's easier to get at.........
well, as soon as I recharge the battery. In my frustration last night I left the passenger door and glove box open :D

Is there something that I could test (assuming that this works) from the knock sensor back? I'm still unsure what type of signal that the knock sensor sends to the ESC module, that then gets forwarded to the ECM.

I truly appreciate the reply, THANK YOU! I'll let you know of my results in a couple hours.
 
Hey
Roland
I was trying to get my knock sensor to work by beating on it and didnt see nothing on my laptop. Dennis was never seeing any knock in his car and we wanted to know if it was working.So i beat on his and nothing and we beat on mine and nothing.I do see knock on mine and know its working but could not get it to show anything with a tap on the sensor or anywhere on the engine.I think it only suppost to show knock if it detects the right freq that it thinks is a knock and screens out anything thats not.
That is one nice looking engine compartment in your truck and you should post a picture of it so we can all see what nice work you have done:eek: Man your truck is NICE NICE:) :D ;)It makes my car look like the rebuilt beater it really is:eek:
 
I'm baaaaaaaaakkkkk

hey Craig;

I grounded the C lead at the ESC module, and I DO get my 17* retard that is programmed into FAST on the screen. YEAH!

I have checked all wiring, to knock sensor, and those at the ESC module. All are now good. I checked the stock Syclone knock sensor itself via removing the connector, inserting ohm meter set to 2 Vac and beat on the motor. I did see a small voltage while "smacking" it.

Perhaps finding/fixing the open ground at the ESC wiring harness is my culprit????? My overall concern is that new motor is up to 18 psi on 92 octane and not showing ANY signs of knock. I'm aware I'm NOT that great of a tuner, hence my concern.

Have you got a simple way to check now from the knock sensor to the ECM? Or from the ESC module to the sensor....... ANY further suggestions are gladly welcomed. Thank you.

Gene;

You may be right in that I'm doing nothing but working up a sweat. I just want to insure I don't "toast" a motor cuz something is wrong and I didn't check for it. Thanks for compliments on motor. Uhhhhhhh, I don't know "how" to post pics, besides........ I doubt that the TB crowd wants to see a cluttered Syclone motor.
 
Thank you for the offer Brian, but Gene has just shown me how and given me space for pics...... check it out.
http://www.netsnapshot.com/pcw/pickalbum?geno
look under Roland

Gene;

Thanks for the Stage II tour last nite, I'm still drooling! Also for showing me how and where to post some pics! I appreciate it!


NOW........... anyone with ideas as to how to further continue testing that ESC system? Thanks,:D
 
No problem Roland:)
It was nice to see you and show off my parts.I cant find my Hogans sheet metal intake you didnt take it did you:) :) LOL
Your welcome to come over anytime and bring back that intake it wont fit on your truck:D :D :) LOL
 
Well if you have a good sensor, good wiring and a good ecu then the ESC module would have to be bad. Assuming there is any fault at all here of course. It may all be working fine :) There are alot of variables in the testing here. I had a digital scope hooked up to the ESC module output on my Buick once, trying to catch what it does as I tapped in various spots on the engine. It took some pretty substantial "tapping" to get it to trip at all, and when it did the signaling event captured on the scope was only a few ms in duration :)

PS when you look for the retard during testing are you using the logging while tapping, looking for a spike on the knock variable? You might miss it otherwise.

TurboTR
 
when you look for the retard during testing are you using the logging while tapping, looking for a spike on the knock variable? You might miss it otherwise.

Hey Turbo TR;
As I'm doing this alone, yes I do log it then go back and look. TB locals have explained that they have "beat up" their motors manually also with NO success. I did find an open ground lead in the wiring harness to the ESC module, which I repaired. I beginning to believe that "all is now well, and that the signal outa the knock sensor isn't correct for true engine knock, so the ESC module doesn't send on a ground to the ECM". Maybe...... perhaps..... Thanks for the input.

Gene;
Uhhhhhhhh, did I "accidently" walk outa 'ur place with that Hogan's manifold under my jacket? I found a couple "race prepped" aluminium heads, some Jesel roller rockers, and a dry sump pump, ........... but no manifold. I'll continue lookin tho :p
 
PS a rubber mallet on the intake plenum almost certainly will NOT do it. It needs to go more like "TING", not "thump" :) I think the ESC needs to "hear" substantial sound energy in the 6000-8000 Hz range to trigger. I used a long 1/2" drive extension and kinda tapped it somewhere against the intake or head "lengthwise" to use the weight of the extension. It took awhile to get the tapping to work. I had a knock beeper hooked up, one that would beep anytime the ESC sent a signal to the ecu. I could eventually tap and get a beep.

TurboTR
 
. I had a knock beeper hooked up, one that would beep anytime the ESC sent a signal to the ecu. I could eventually tap and get a beep.

<----------- I have a visual and audible coming from Caspers. I have also tried a hammer on the alternator and the bracket without much success. The rubber mallet has been used with HIGH effort, and it was enough to get the knock sensor to put out a reading. However, I believe you are correct in that it just "isn't" what the system wants to see. I did find the open wiring harness ground, so perhaps I should put it back together and try it out..........

Thanks again,
 
I hope you dont mind me posting some pic of you truck Roland:)
That is one busy engine compartment and CLEAN;) Rolland is the type of guy that thinks what he has is not that nice :eek: When his truck really has it going on:cool: It makes my old tank look like what it is....junk:) Nice job on the detail Roland:eek:
http://www.netSnapShot.com/users/2412/images/PCTHu8CoBQIAAEkoaeg_2412_121.pjpeg



http://www.netSnapShot.com/users/2412/images/PCTG0MCoBQIAAA6G5pw_2412_118.pjpeg



http://www.netSnapShot.com/users/2412/images/PCTFqsCoBQIAAAdSpwg_2412_115.pjpeg





http://www.netSnapShot.com/users/2412/images/PCTFEsCoBQIAAAdkHfg_2412_113.pjpeg




http://www.netSnapShot.com/users/2412/images/PCTEocCoBQIAAAraTuw_2412_112.pjpeg
 
Dammit Todd is that what you do to my engines, you hook up beepers and wizzy's and scopes and then beat it till it makes a noise. I'm going to pretend I didn't read this :p :p
Dale
 
Shoot that's nothing, the new engine is gonna be "hooked on dope" too hehe.

That's just how we used to torture the stock engine ;-)

PS some knock beepers might also filter the input so that one small spike of activity might go "un-beeped" :)

TurboTR
 
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