FAST "esc" control

[Roland Black]

Part # 30-121010
Serial # 01122 1122
Dealer 007
Batch # BB0026
Firmware Rev. B2BHEI-A
option B2B WB
date of manuf. 020100

Back when I first got my Syclone running, I found an open ground in the wiring harness at pin D to the knock module, thanks to Jim's help @ PTE. I repaired that, and it still has never gone off. I'm now on another motor and have audible knock, but neither SP, or caspers gauges go off. I have replaced the new knock sensor with another, and have two in series now and still no reading.

I can get both of Caspers units to light/beep if I give a quick intermitent ground at lead C of the knock module, but SP doesn't show it. <a solid ground does absolutely nothing> I have checked with an ohm meter, and the wiring from the Knock sensor <C> to SP <H1> is good, but still no signal. I can beat the living hell outa the motor with a rubber mallet and no ESC signal at SP or Caspers gauges, yet with an ohn meter, I get small voltage readings from the knock sensors.

I am confused and frustrated to say the least. I have replaced the knock module also, and it makes no difference. I anxiously await any suggests you may have to offer. This unit does have the ESC feature, yes????? <it does appear under "all sensors when in SpeedPro, and it's on my record "dash""> And why does a quick pulse ground occasionally read on Caspers gauge, but not a long solid one?

Bottom line, knock sensor works, wiring from knock sensor to knock module is good, and wiring from knock module to FAST is good. There are positive/negative at the knock module also.

Thanks in advance,

 

[Craig Smith]

What happens if you ground pin H1? That's all it takes to trigger the ESC retard. But, if you have the ESC retard in the FAST set to zero, nothing will happen. Could this be it?

 

[Roland Black]

Settings are:
max ESC retard 17*
ESC attack rate 4.00
ESC decay rate 0.50

I'll pull the computer out tomorrow (been a long day and it's difficult to get at) and ground it directly at pin H1. I doubt this will do much as wire from knock module to pin H1 is good and no register of retard when grounded at knock module, but I suppose there could be a connecter problem perhaps.

Thanks Craig,

 

[Roland Black]

I stuck a small pin into H1 as suggested...... I booted up my PC, went online and brought up the "view all sensors". I grounded H1, and the Caspers audible and led gauges lit up, but there was NO indication on the ESC portion of FAST. I tried a quick flick ground and a solid ground...... no response from FAST, yet Caspers was doing it's thing.

Is this a quick fix where Harry @ PTE can e-mail me something that I load on a floppy and download, or must the unit be pulled and sent back....(groan)?

THANKS Craig for your assistance,

 

[Roland Black]

I spoke with Joe @ PTE, and he says it's a hardware problem and must go back to FAST.

Craig - Lance

1. can I send it directly to FAST and hopefully save some downtime? If so, mailing address please.

2. is there a loaner system where I could pay $50 and use another ECU while awaiting mine to be fixed?

3. is there an outrite trade for $100 that I could do....... I send you my box and $100 and you send me a permanent replacement? Then fix my old one at your leisure.

I just got truck running with new motor, passed emissions and am ready for some serious tuning........ summers half gone and needless to say I'd prefer not waiting. Thanks to all who have assisted with this problem.

 

[Craig Smith]

Roland, call (662) 224-3495 and they will get you taken care of. They will give some shipping instructions and a return authorization number. Turnaround time shouldn't be long at all.

I apologize for the inconvenience.

 

[Roland Black]

Thanks Craig;

I'll give a call.

 

[88GTAinRI]

Originally posted by Roland Black
I spoke with Joe @ PTE, and he says it's a hardware problem and must go back to FAST.

Craig - Lance

1. can I send it directly to FAST and hopefully save some downtime? If so, mailing address please.

2. is there a loaner system where I could pay $50 and use another ECU while awaiting mine to be fixed?

3. is there an outrite trade for $100 that I could do....... I send you my box and $100 and you send me a permanent replacement? Then fix my old one at your leisure.

I just got truck running with new motor, passed emissions and am ready for some serious tuning........ summers half gone and needless to say I'd prefer not waiting. Thanks to all who have assisted with this problem.

GOOD LUCK! Never mind a loaner, replace a faulty unit with a new one. If I bought a new $2,000 TV set, and it didn't work, you bet your a$$ I would want a replacement. Down time waiting for repairs sucks. And sending computer back more than once sucks even more. Ahhh, Murphy's law.

 

[Roland Black]

I must agree that I'm not thrilled with the idea of my truck being down, but at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel. I just hope it's not a train!

My unit is two years old, although actual usage time has been minimal during that period. Two motors and two trannys later, it's finally back on the road....... at least they are standing behind it and willing to do the repairs. It's almost like this truck is destined NOT to get to the track.

I still contend that FAST ought to think over the idea of loaners, even if there is a charge associated with it. That would take the urgency off of whoever is doing the repairs at FAST, minimize phone calls to FAST, and keep those in a bind with a smile on their face. It would be well worth $100 to me to rent a loaner and continue tuning my truck until my unit is repaired and returned. I'm not complaining (just whining ;-) but it's something I believe deserves consideration.

THANKS again Craig,

 

[Craig Smith]

Thanks for your understanding and your patience. The ECU will be fixed soon and you will be up and running.

Unfortunately, the bad apples have spoiled the bunch. We've tried the loaner deal before and the bottom line is that we took a beating. It's a thin line for us to walk. We don't want to make anyone angry, but trying the loaner program cost us thousands of dollars. Once someone either wrecked something you loan them or they don't want to give it back, the real fun starts. Guaranteed hard feelings at the end of that venture, and it happened way more often than we were willing to deal with.

 

[Roland Black]

Too bad that the few have to screw things up for the rest of us.

I spoke with Mike moments ago @ FAST and got the RA#. He says if not a major problem, turn around could be three days (insert lotsa teeth grin here) Durn, I may get that thing to the track yet this summer!!!

Guess I'll go take one last drive around the block before pulling the ECU.

Thanks again Craig for the support,

 

[Roland Black]

UPDATE

I just spoke with Mike @ FAST....... asked for status as I haven't heard anything since it arrived at their shop on 8-15-03. Mike says the unit tests fine, and there is NO problem.

Here's my current question.....
When I tested the unit locally, still in my truck, I put a ground onto H1 and the Casper gauges went off for their first time, but no ESC signal was noticed at FAST. I then pulled off the harness, and grounded it directly at FAST pin H1 while recording a run to insure that the problem wasn't in the connector, with still NO ESC signal recorded.

Why can the FAST folks get a signal and I can't? I even removed Casper's gauges and tried it again to insure that they weren't somehow causing problems (with the harness re-connected) and that did nothing either. I'm not bad mouthing anyone, I'm seeking suggestions............. why can someone else make it work and I can't??????

Just sign me as "confused near Seattle"

 

[Roland Black]

I just re-installed my FAST ECU, and retested pin H1 at the connector (I was hoping that it's vacation in MS may make a difference in how it worked for me). No such luck........ the ground lit up Caspers led and audible gauge, but no reading at FAST.

I have one harness connector left, so perhaps it's not making proper contact with the FAST ECU pin. I'll pull out the wire and re-connectorize it to see if that possibly makes a difference.

Craig:
Tony mentioned that you may have some further ideas for me?

 

[88GTAinRI]

Makes you wonder who is fixing these things huh? I purchased my FAST system in May. Installed it shortly there after and the IAC never worked since day1. I thought I f'd something up so I called my dealer and he was more than happy to set all the driveability settings and accompany me to the dyno. I towed the car to him and the IAC wouldn't respond for him either and the wide band wasn't working as well. Mailed the whole thing out, at our expense, for repairs. It came back rather quickly with a repair notice that a bad solder for something to do with the wide band. No mention of the IAC! We installed it and low and behold everything worked, for about 15 minutes, then the IAC started dropping counts and would not respond. Installed a known good unit and the IAC worked flawlessly. Off for repairs again, freight on us again. They tested it and said is was woking fine. We told them the unit needs to be running for a while then it starts f'ing up. They sent the unit to Arizona to some engine dyno shop and they duplicated the condition. Back for repairs where it was fitted with a new processor and IAC driver. Now it is finally on it's way "home". It arrived 8/22! 3 1/2 months after I had purchased it! Enclosed was a bill for $5.00 for the IAC driver! I am extremely pleased with the technology of this sytem, but something needs to be done about customer service and quality control. I lost the whole f'n summer. I am keeping my fingers crossed the weather will be nice into October and the control unit is FINALLY repaired.

 

[Craig Smith]

Roland,

I didn't handle this repair but I keep in constant communication with the guy who checked it and have been following it through. There were some pins in the connector that were bent. I'm not sure if anyone talked with you about this or not. It looked as if there was something between the harness and the connector when it was tightened down. Not sure if that was a problem or not but I am sure it didn't help matters any. But that ECU was tested VERY thoroughly, heated, frozen, bent, bounced around, and everything in between and the ESC input never failed.

88GTA, like Roland's ECU I didn't have a hand in it but have been following it. I guess one thing worth mentioning is that we never have, nor ever will, send anything to Arizona for testing. Your ECU went about 45 miles away from where your box was shipped as the engine normally used for this type of testing wasn't available. Not really a big deal here, but worth mentioning.

Something that is important to understand is that prior to removing parts off a circuit board, the problem needs to be duplicated. This is the reason that we had to go to the lengths we did in order to fix your ECU. It ran for many hours on the engine simulator and never created any problems. I spoke with Buddy at SRA transmissions about this before it was sent in and I had a pretty good idea of what the problem was, but it took a lot more effort than normal to get the problem to show up. That's the only way we can be confident that the problem is resolved.

Anyhow, the comment about wondering who's checking your stuff out stings a little since I am still involved in that very process. I understand if you are frustrated, but we do our very best to take care of problems if they arise. I don't know what happened with the first time you sent the ECU somewhere since I can't find any record of it, but we did what it took to fix your problem, and it's fixed. I would like to think that you might appreciate the fact that we were persistent enough to identify and fix a problem that simply didn't make itself apparent in any reasonable amount of time.

 

[88GTAinRI]

Yes, frustrated is the perfect word. I am, and have been, for quite some time. I understand the need to duplicate the condition in order to make repairs. The problem with the ECU happened everytime it was in my car after running for a while. A known good ECU worked flawlessly. I didn't think duplicating the condition would be difficult, and that is why I "stung" you. I'm sure my problem was probably rare, and I don't want to sound like an a-hole, but try wearing my shoes. I spent a good amount of money on something that is not 100%. I believe I should have just been given another ECU and O2. Maybe in the future the units should be tested before they are sold?

We nicknamed my ECU the "Devil box", I hope it has been completely exorcised!

 

[gnxtc2]

Craig

Before you guys send the ECMs out, they should be bench tested. I just installed a FAST ECM in my GN this past weekend, and the car wouldn't start. I had to call Precision for tech help, they were great, especially Joe and Jim. It was traced down to FAST ECM not receiving a MAP signal. On the dashboard screen it read 1 Kpa. Tried a different MAP and same reading. I had continuity from the MAP sensor green wire to pin A1 on the FAST ECM. Oh yea, it also had the 5v reference voltage with a ground.

My point is my time spent troubleshooting. If I installed something wrong fine, I'll eat the time but if didn't do anything wrong, I have a problem with that. I know it is not Precision's fault. I installed a brand new box and had to rip it out and send it back. I just sent it back on 08/25/2003 overnight to Precision to be tested.

Sorry for venting

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[Craig Smith]

This is getting way out of the scope of what this message board is about. I try and answer technical questions for people here, but I am not interested in getting slammed on the internet by someone who shows up here for apparently no other reason than to bad-mouth me, my co-workers, and what we do. I am sorry if you are unhappy about something but this isn't how you go about getting a resolution to a problem.

Some things are easy to fix, some aren't. Yours wasn't easy but we got it done. We try to do the best job we can. We make the vast majority of our customers happy but I suppose there's always going to be someone who isn't happy about something, no matter what you do.

I won't be responding to this particular subject any more. Roland, if you have any questions on your problem with the ESC input feel free to post them here and I will do everything I can for you. 88GTA, if you have any questions I'll be happy to help you too, but if you feel that you have to be rude and insulting then go find help somewhere else.

 

[Glen]

Man, alot of slamin' goin' on here. Someone take the knife aoutta FAST's back.
Something people have to realize, and this isn't just about your particular problem, but with cars in general, and that is, 'if it has tits or tires, it's gonna cause trouble'. Secondly, before ANY electronic f*&k up can be repaired one of two things need to happen.....
A. It has to stare you in the face, or
B. The problem has to be duplicated. And that happens with the cars you drive every day.
It goes like this...........
'I have a problem with my ...........,'
'Is it doing it now?'
'No'
'Can you leave it?'
'No'
'Then how do you expect me to fix it?'
'Cuz I told you what it's doing'
Well, my magic wand is in the shop for repairs.

Now, I got my unit, f&%k I don't remember, but it was years ago, back when the Dead Sea was only sick. When the motor got to running temp it would surge like a MF @ idle. Now,some of you guys are lucky, my dealer said "I don't know, I only do race stuff, call them." Needless to say, he was alot of f*&kin help. So.... I called the boys. More than once. Most the time I talked to Lance and he thought I was bs'in or something, I don't know, anyway, I concluded that the Intake Air Temp compensation wasn't right . If I set the sensor out by the windshield, it was better, put it where it belonged and it went to surging. This was determined by testing. Well, my ECU didn't have an adjustable IAT. I called Lance again and sent the unit back. By this time they had an update to make the IAT adjustable. The point....... proper diagnostics on my part zero'd in on the problem, I doubt that it would have been duplicated on a machine. After that little episode, I asked for a wire diagram. They hadn't made one available yet. I believe at that time Craig was doing it. Well, afew months later out of the blue Craig calls me and asks for my Fax# and sends me a copy. Now, I've dealt with alot of aftermarket companies, and by and large, they forget about you to the point of pissin' people off, and I'm talkin' BIG companys with their names everywhere. The second time I sent it back was my fault. I let all the smoke out, so it was an easy fix, but they also updated it and had it back in no time, for little pocket change.
If you wanna have fun..... get ahold of DFI's techs.

My point in all this....... sh*t happens, the impossible we can do today, miracles by appointment only

 

[Roland Black]

to steer the ship back onto course...........

I've been real busy and haven't had follow thru time as of yet. I do have a game plan tho....... not sure if it's a good one or not, but as they say "any port in a storm".

I will replace the wire connector at H1.
MY system is NOT getting that signal. That should at least give me continuity when I ground H1.

It dawned on me that even if FAST wasn't receiving the knock signal when I had audible knock, none of Caspers gauges were going off either. If the pin is the problem, Caspers gauges shoulda been screaming whether FAST saw it or not. I sent an e-mail to John Spina and explained my problem as best as I could. I asked if the stock SyTy knock sensor was perhaps the problem, even tho I now have TWO new ones installed in series. John's reply follows:

Try rapping the base of the knock sensor with a metallic object such as
a 3/8 in. extension, or long large screwdriver. This should set it off.
The sensor looks for a metallic sound more than a dull thud. It's OK to
use as long as the ESC module you added doesn't pull the knock sensor
signal too far down. Sometimes, we recommend a 10K resistor in series
with the new ESC signal wire (between the module and the sensor) to
reduce the pull from the module.
-John

Although I'm not really understanding the addition of a 10K resistor, and how that will help rather than hinder the situation, I will add one in the circuit and try it out. Hell, at this point if someone mentioned pissing on the passenger side carpet and slamming the door shut, I'd prolly give it a try.

I personally am frustrated...... but, there is a solution to this problem and one way or another I will find it. I truly DO appreciate the input, and FAST checking out the unit. Keep those cards and letters coming. If someone has an explanation (simple) of why adding the resistor mite help the signal to the ESC module, please share. Thanks all,