E-70 OK to start tuning?

BIGONTS

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Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Got my fuel system in and want to start tuning startup, drivability and up to maybe 10lbs of boost max for now. I guess the winter blend is the only thing available here out south of Chicago. Highest I can get was E-70 out of 3 stations?? If I do get it running right on this, is my tune gonna need to change when I do eventually get E-85? Obviously for 10+lbs of boost it will. Is the higher octane rating gonna effect the lower rpm and boost drivability? Volume change? Thanks
 
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Yes, it does effect the tune.
I dont know how the classic fast works, but watch a log and adjust tune a little from there. If anything, your going to run more on the rich side from the E70. It has more gasoline in it vs E85.
 
Never mind. Just found a gas station near me that tested E-86-87ish. Thornton's on 91st and Cicero for anyone local. They seem to go thru a lot and have a E85 pump at each pump.

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E70 can handle way more than 10 psi ... Depending on where you got the E70 from it could potentially support more boost than E85 .. you can easily run that to 20 psi depending on tuner
 
I have been running the crappy E60 I get here in Houston at 24 psi and 18 degrees of timing and it seems to do ok. I may advance timing if I can ever get actual E85.
 
E70 can handle way more than 10 psi ... Depending on where you got the E70 from it could potentially support more boost than E85 .. you can easily run that to 20 psi depending on tuner
Obviously you've experimented with ethanol fuels extensively... I'm trying to learn as much as I can. In what situation or scenario could more boost be run with e70 over e85? Thanks
 
Obviously you've experimented with ethanol fuels extensively... I'm trying to learn as much as I can. In what situation or scenario could more boost be run with e70 over e85? Thanks


I had to experiment as I was involved in a EPA study of E85... and this is why I say that most don't understand the fuel itself because if they did they wouldn't post some information that just isn't true..

I look on here at some of the information that guys get ... and I feel bad for the newbies ... they have a big enough issue just trying to learn what makes a turbo buick tick .. throw bad information in and its a recipe for shear confusion and $ spent in wrong a places with lack luster results. .. now back to your question ...

What is E70 ?? EXACTLY .. what does E70 mean ?
What is E85 ?? What does E85 mean ?
 
I will play because I consider myself a newbie and am interested in learning more than I currently know.

My understanding is E70 would be a blend of 70% ethanol and 30% other (probably mostly gasoline, but surely some other components in trace amounts)
E85 would be 85% ethanol and 15% other.

I too am interested in how to get a lower concentration of ethanol to withstand more boost than a higher concentration (without severely backing down timing).
 
I will play because I consider myself a newbie and am interested in learning more than I currently know.

My understanding is E70 would be a blend of 70% ethanol and 30% other (probably mostly gasoline, but surely some other components in trace amounts)
E85 would be 85% ethanol and 15% other.

I too am interested in how to get a lower concentration of ethanol to withstand more boost than a higher concentration (without severely backing down timing).


correct its a ratio .. but nobody is dicatating what the ratio is of !! HINT HINT !

Also think about what benefits ethanol has and why it reduces detonation even though the octane may not be as high.
 
Well unless you have $42 to buy a copy of D5798 from ASTM, you can't readily find out what the rest of the specs for E85 must be. ASTM says E85 can be anywhere from 51-83% ethanol. Presumably it would be gasoline, but who knows - it could be any of a myriad of hydrocarbons. From what I can tell, the only thing specified is that it must be a hydrocarbon. Since you were involved in an EPA study, could you help us out?

As far as ehtanol's benefits over gasoline, it is the fact that it reduces detonation. The reason that it reduces that detonation is that 1) the ethanol molecule contains an oxygen atom that aids in the burning process, and b) more of it is required to burn, which increases the heat absorption as the fuel vaporizes for burning.

I agree with you that E70 should be able to handle way more than 10psi boost. I'm wondering how you come to the conclusion that E70 can handle more boost than E85. I guess the quality of the gasoline in the mixture would be the deciding factor given all other aspects would be constant (same motor, ambient temp, humidity, etc.)? But if this is the case, how can you determine the quality of the "rest of the E85" without doing some sort of "non-feasible" chemical analysis on a sample every time you fill up?
 
I'll throw another wrench into this discussion. I don't have E85 in my State. However, there is a shop that brings in E100 from Brazil. Brazilian E100 is made from sugarcane as opposed to corn which most of you are familiar with. I've been told Ethanol made from sugarcane produces a better fuel compared to corn. I don't have anything to back that statement up other than I know that I can run at least 25lbs of boost using just 30% of that sugarcane juice mixed with the crappy 92 we have...

So is there any truth to sugarcane making better Ethanol than corn?
 
Well unless you have $42 to buy a copy of D5798 from ASTM, you can't readily find out what the rest of the specs for E85 must be. ASTM says E85 can be anywhere from 51-83% ethanol. Presumably it would be gasoline, but who knows - it could be any of a myriad of hydrocarbons. From what I can tell, the only thing specified is that it must be a hydrocarbon. Since you were involved in an EPA study, could you help us out?

As far as ehtanol's benefits over gasoline, it is the fact that it reduces detonation. The reason that it reduces that detonation is that 1) the ethanol molecule contains an oxygen atom that aids in the burning process, and b) more of it is required to burn, which increases the heat absorption as the fuel vaporizes for burning.

I agree with you that E70 should be able to handle way more than 10psi boost. I'm wondering how you come to the conclusion that E70 can handle more boost than E85. I guess the quality of the gasoline in the mixture would be the deciding factor given all other aspects would be constant (same motor, ambient temp, humidity, etc.)? But if this is the case, how can you determine the quality of the "rest of the E85" without doing some sort of "non-feasible" chemical analysis on a sample every time you fill up?


don't over think this

its a ratio .. SIMPLE .. 85 to 15 .. E85 is just that 85% ethanol 15% gasoline

Nobody is telling you what that 15 % has to be

You asked how E70 can tolerate more boost .. I gave you the answer ... its not the 70% that your getting the additional from that is irrelevant.. gaining 15 % ethanol wont make barely any difference.
and you dont need anything else to figure this out ... you just have to think out of the box

IF I had 10 gallons of E70 that has 7 gallons of ethanol and 3 gallons of C16 in it ...... can that hold more boost than 10 gallons of E85 that has 8.5 gallons of ethanol and 1.5 gallons of 85 octane gasoline ??

Simple answer .. you can run WAY WAY more boost on E70 vs E85 in that scenario.
 
I doubt anybody's gonna find E70 / C16/30 at a pump anywhere. I thought you had some magic tuning recipe.


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What I heard from someone who actually delivers gasoline to gas stations that there isn't any real E85 or E70. It's actually mixed on site of the gas station depending what is called for, summer or winter blend, or whatever the gas station and deliver guys decides or is in the mood for. So pretty much the truck has 100% ethanol in one tank and mixes it, depending on the request, with the gas in another tank. No mystery here. Maybe what type of gas is mixed in 87, 89, 91 or 93?? LMK if someone heard otherwise.
 
What I heard from someone who actually delivers gasoline to gas stations that there isn't any real E85 or E70. It's actually mixed on site of the gas station depending what is called for, summer or winter blend, or whatever the gas station and deliver guys decides or is in the mood for. So pretty much the truck has 100% ethanol in one tank and mixes it, depending on the request, with the gas in another tank. No mystery here. Maybe what type of gas is mixed in 87, 89, 91 or 93?? LMK if someone heard otherwise.
Interesting. Wish I knew someone who owned a gas station.


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