Dash swap-out
- Thread starter FORREST
- Start date
jasjamz
THS Racer
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
Not sure on how to correct the mileage reading. I would say price will depend on the buyer. Most like the GNX style dash over the stockers. Do you plan on selling the car soon? You are however taking the car out of its original form and will need "modify" parts you can't see when the dash is installed. I want get one but have to think about it a little longer.
If its not original, it will hurt the value. If you change the odometer, it will REALLY hurt the value. Think about it, if you bought a car and someone swapped out the dash and the ODO read like 2k miles or something and then you asked what was the original mileage and they told you a number... would you beleive them?
If you are going to do it. Id keep your factory one around as proof of mileage.
Some are going to argue people can swap out dashs' with lower mileage ones anyway, but hopefully the carfax reports help with that.
I would leave her alone if you are considering it an investement of any kind.
GNs are going to be worth BIG money one day, just like the 60s muscle cars.
If you are going to do it. Id keep your factory one around as proof of mileage.
Some are going to argue people can swap out dashs' with lower mileage ones anyway, but hopefully the carfax reports help with that.
I would leave her alone if you are considering it an investement of any kind.
GNs are going to be worth BIG money one day, just like the 60s muscle cars.
Gary Wells
White turbo Buick trailer park trash
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2002
I think that the amount of financial loss due to such a conversion would be based on how original your car is now, how low the mileage, the current condition, & so forth. It's true that you would have to cut some material out from behind the dash panel, but not to the extent that the original dash could not be re-mounted. If you would like to be sticky about it, you might be able to find a speedometer calibration shop that could advance the Poston's dash to agree with the original dash. Otherwise you could keep the original dash, take pcitures of both dashes together reflecting the mileage of each at the same time, document and / or even maybe get help to draw up a document and get it notarized. I personally like the dash change, wish that I would have bought one before GNXDash closed, and I would never let a dash modification such as one that you are describing keep me from purchasing such a vehicle. Now if you are talking a museum quality, no mileage car that might change a little. I would never let the money that I expect to make tomorrow change or spoil the fun that I can have today. HTH
toofastforyou
2FAST4U
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
This is only my opinion...
-I agree with "Wells" when he says: "I would never let a dash modification such as one that you are describing keep me from purchasing such a vehicle."... Here's what I think: If it's an improvement welcomed by most GN enthusiasts I don't think that it will take away some value of the car...
- I disagree with "NothinYet" when he says: "If its not original, it will hurt the value. If you change the odometer, it will REALLY hurt the value."...and also "GNs are going to be worth BIG money one day, just like the 60s muscle cars."...Yeah sure...but by the time they will be worth ridiculously high amounts of money (like the prices you see on Barrett-Jackson...
) I'll be dead...so I don't care about the resale value!...:biggrin: I did not buy my GN to make money with it, but rather to SPEND money on it and go fast!:biggrin:
Claude
-I agree with "Wells" when he says: "I would never let a dash modification such as one that you are describing keep me from purchasing such a vehicle."... Here's what I think: If it's an improvement welcomed by most GN enthusiasts I don't think that it will take away some value of the car...
- I disagree with "NothinYet" when he says: "If its not original, it will hurt the value. If you change the odometer, it will REALLY hurt the value."...and also "GNs are going to be worth BIG money one day, just like the 60s muscle cars."...Yeah sure...but by the time they will be worth ridiculously high amounts of money (like the prices you see on Barrett-Jackson...
) I'll be dead...so I don't care about the resale value!...:biggrin: I did not buy my GN to make money with it, but rather to SPEND money on it and go fast!:biggrin: Claude
Project TNX
Active Member
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2006
Speaking for myself, I always look at a GNX Dash as a positive, and I'm cautious of any mileage on any odometer on our cars. You have to let the condition of the car be the true mileage and overall care factor.
-I agree with "Wells" when he says: "I would never let a dash modification such as one that you are describing keep me from purchasing such a vehicle."... Here's what I think: If it's an improvement welcomed by most GN enthusiasts I don't think that it will take away some value of the car...
- I disagree with "NothinYet" when he says: "If its not original, it will hurt the value. If you change the odometer, it will REALLY hurt the value."...and also "GNs are going to be worth BIG money one day, just like the 60s muscle cars."...Yeah sure...but by the time they will be worth ridiculously high amounts of money (like the prices you see on Barrett-Jackson...
Claude
That was my point... if he sees the car as an investment and is hanging on to it for awhile and then has plans on selling it, i say leave it alone.
If he is going to do what you do, and just make it fast and drive the hell out of it, then of course just swap out the dash.
I dont think he would be asking this question, however, if that wasnt his concern. Looks like he DOES view it as an investment.
And even if its not going to be worth $60K anytime soon, they are still going up in value... any car that actually goes UP in value as it gets older is an asset as long as it outweights the cost of keeping it that way.
As soon as the vehicle becomes a liability, meaning you are spending more on its upkeep than its apprecaition is bringing you... its not worth keeping unless just to have fun with.
My car is fun. Not original, not worth anything, NOT a GN! LOL!
I would have to say that if I did have a GN, I would keep it original and low mileage if I could and find something else to tinker with.
just my 2 cents.
Ohh and a GNX dash being an improvement is an OPINION, not fact...
im not saying which way I agree or dont.
Facts, not opinions, will help him make this decision.
Its a fact that original cars bring more money than not. (unless you dump more money than God into it.)
Its a fact that GNs are going up in value.
Thats my point.
toofastforyou
2FAST4U
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
"NothinYet", I was expressing my OPINION when I said that adding a GNX dash is an improvement. As for adding or taking away some value from the car all depends on the owner's idea of what he want to do with the car...Let's just say that it is a popular mod among GN owners.
I was not trying to knock down what you were saying previously...and like you, my car is for having fun. Most of the modifications on it were done tastefully because I did not want the car to lose too much value even though I do not see my GN as an investment but rather a money pit! :biggrin: I did have it appraised for insurance purposes a few times, but I'd still be confused on it's market value if I ever wanted to sell it...I've owned it since day one and spent tons of money into it over the years... Some of the things I've done to it are still there today, and some others were returned back to their original condition after a change of mind, or finding out that it was not the right way to go, but like you said, if GN's are going up in value, I guess mine's going up also!
thanks,
Claude
P.S: I'm not sure about original cars always brigning more money because by looking at the prices of some non-original cars sold at Barrett-Jackson, heavily modified race cars and some others that have been customized, or having being owned by someone "important" still sell for a LOT of money even if they're not original!...
I was not trying to knock down what you were saying previously...and like you, my car is for having fun. Most of the modifications on it were done tastefully because I did not want the car to lose too much value even though I do not see my GN as an investment but rather a money pit! :biggrin: I did have it appraised for insurance purposes a few times, but I'd still be confused on it's market value if I ever wanted to sell it...I've owned it since day one and spent tons of money into it over the years...
Some of the things I've done to it are still there today, and some others were returned back to their original condition after a change of mind, or finding out that it was not the right way to go, but like you said, if GN's are going up in value, I guess mine's going up also! thanks,
Claude
P.S: I'm not sure about original cars always brigning more money because by looking at the prices of some non-original cars sold at Barrett-Jackson, heavily modified race cars and some others that have been customized, or having being owned by someone "important" still sell for a LOT of money even if they're not original!...
Thanks
Hey Guys, Thanks for all your input. I think I"ll install the dash. About cutting up the dash Fat Nat said if I remove the plastic mounting pc. the dash should bolt up.This car has a car-fax on it and was bought off T.B. from nastynavy. the car gets about 500 miles a season. When I drive it I drive it like I stole it.And it run so well because of all the fine people and knowledge that was given to me. Thank You One and All
Hey Guys, Thanks for all your input. I think I"ll install the dash. About cutting up the dash Fat Nat said if I remove the plastic mounting pc. the dash should bolt up.This car has a car-fax on it and was bought off T.B. from nastynavy. the car gets about 500 miles a season. When I drive it I drive it like I stole it.And it run so well because of all the fine people and knowledge that was given to me. Thank You One and All
Jack Armstrong
Survivor
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2008
Maybe...some "might"...but let's take a closer, more accurate look.
Let's remember the IC GNs cost on average $18,500.00 in 1986/87 money.
That was 21/22 years ago. Now, adjust for inflation from then to today.
(We'll even pretend that keeping the GN 21/22 years cost you zero)
Compare that figure to what a mint-mint-mint 20K-mile GN brings today.
Anyone making any $$$ there?
You cannot extrapolate the rise in value from other segments of
the high-performance car market will ever occur in any similar
magnitude for GNs, & even less so for TRs. Why? A limited supply
of a commodity does not always mean a price increase in
situations where there is not a *significant* demand. Out of
the total population of car-guys, motorheads, & hot-rodders...
what percentage are Buick enthusiasts, & or TR-enthusiasts?
GNXs went for 30-40K over their MSRP in 1987 & 1988.
Adjust that figure for 2 decades of inflation. Only 547 GNXs...how
many of even those rare units have been "a fortunate investment"?
I appreciate these great cars as much as anyone,
but the American market realities are what they are.
Far better to measure their "value" in your smiles-per-miles. :smile:
Gary Wells
White turbo Buick trailer park trash
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2002
FORREST:
You might want to consider researching how well illuminated the dash is at nighttime prior to installation. As much as I would like to have a GNX replica dash in my 22.5K original mile car, I have heard from more than a single source that most of the GNX replica dash conversions did not illuminate well. I have heard this from several peeps that have the AVS of AVX conversion and have witnessed this firsthand on that brand. Not to discourage you from the mod, but maybe there are brighter bulbs available or some other means of stepping up the illumination and / or brightness?
Even though these cars are most valueable today in pure original form, that does not mean that it will always be that way. If you look at the market for the last few years regarding this very same subject, that ideaology is shifting and I don't think that it will always be that way for Turbo-T's in general. For example, look at the value difference between a nicely modded "socially acceptable" Model A and a bone stock Model A. Not to badmouth anybody's ride, but a bone stock Model A, regardless of how well it has been restored or the extent of it's pristineness, it's value won't hold a candle to a nicley modded late 40's to early 60's style Model A.
I am currently looking for another nicely modded '87 Turbo-T, and I will pay as much or maybe slightly more for one that has been modded with what I want and to the extent that I want.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/south-western-area/232006-i-am-still-looking-wtb.html
Most of the "I want it stock" theory came from, (1) purists, (most of these people are not really into the turboBuick streetscene, show, and / or race culture but just think that they know what's kool), (2) buyers that want to downgrade your price so that they may gain financially in the deal, and (3) buyers that feel that if you modded it, then you beat on it, and they fear a lemon.
Bone stock is kool until you get your buns handed to you at a light, and then that is the end of that philosophy. HTH
Post pictures of that dash when done please?
You might want to consider researching how well illuminated the dash is at nighttime prior to installation. As much as I would like to have a GNX replica dash in my 22.5K original mile car, I have heard from more than a single source that most of the GNX replica dash conversions did not illuminate well. I have heard this from several peeps that have the AVS of AVX conversion and have witnessed this firsthand on that brand. Not to discourage you from the mod, but maybe there are brighter bulbs available or some other means of stepping up the illumination and / or brightness?
Even though these cars are most valueable today in pure original form, that does not mean that it will always be that way. If you look at the market for the last few years regarding this very same subject, that ideaology is shifting and I don't think that it will always be that way for Turbo-T's in general. For example, look at the value difference between a nicely modded "socially acceptable" Model A and a bone stock Model A. Not to badmouth anybody's ride, but a bone stock Model A, regardless of how well it has been restored or the extent of it's pristineness, it's value won't hold a candle to a nicley modded late 40's to early 60's style Model A.
I am currently looking for another nicely modded '87 Turbo-T, and I will pay as much or maybe slightly more for one that has been modded with what I want and to the extent that I want.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/south-western-area/232006-i-am-still-looking-wtb.html
Most of the "I want it stock" theory came from, (1) purists, (most of these people are not really into the turboBuick streetscene, show, and / or race culture but just think that they know what's kool), (2) buyers that want to downgrade your price so that they may gain financially in the deal, and (3) buyers that feel that if you modded it, then you beat on it, and they fear a lemon.
Bone stock is kool until you get your buns handed to you at a light, and then that is the end of that philosophy. HTH
Post pictures of that dash when done please?
"All Original" is overated to me. I searched and found an all original 75000 mile GN (owned by a Buick dealer). Although I got it for a good market price, it's the multiple thousands I have spent on upgrades after one night at the dragstrip, that have changed my mind. Like Wells said getting left at the light sucks! I will be looking for another Turbo Regal this spring and you can bet I will let someone else "wisely" spend their hard earned money on the majority of the upgrades.
If I was swapping to GNX dash from an original, I would change the GNX mileage to match the original dash. If you don't, carfax could flag your car immediate as mileage turn back or a TMU. I would document the change by taking a picture of both clusters next to each other with the same mileage.
"NothinYet", I was expressing my OPINION when I said that adding a GNX dash is an improvement. As for adding or taking away some value from the car all depends on the owner's idea of what he want to do with the car...Let's just say that it is a popular mod among GN owners.
I was not trying to knock down what you were saying previously...and like you, my car is for having fun. Most of the modifications on it were done tastefully because I did not want the car to lose too much value even though I do not see my GN as an investment but rather a money pit! :biggrin: I did have it appraised for insurance purposes a few times, but I'd still be confused on it's market value if I ever wanted to sell it...I've owned it since day one and spent tons of money into it over the years...
thanks,
Claude
P.S: I'm not sure about original cars always brigning more money because by looking at the prices of some non-original cars sold at Barrett-Jackson, heavily modified race cars and some others that have been customized, or having being owned by someone "important" still sell for a LOT of money even if they're not original!...
Look at my post above yours... I specifically mentioned orginals bringing more money (unless they have more money than God into them) hence.... a race car. And of course, alot of those race cars are owned by famous race car drivers and are a peice of racing history... that is another reason why they bring such good money.
I dont think we have too many famous people in here, I was speaking for the average joe...
And I agree with your first paragraph, your IS going up in value even though it isnt original... just dont expect to get the same money as the guy with 40K original miles in original mint condition is all I am saying...
toofastforyou
2FAST4U
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
"NothinYet", I guess you're right about some people that are willing to pay a lot more for a car that has belonged to someone "famous" in the past...fine for them, but not me. I'm speaking for MYSELF here when I say that I wouldn't pay a cent more for that...WHO CARES about who owned the car before??...But that's only my OWN personal opinion...I see myself more like an "enjoyer" of my GN, than a car collector who is going to store the car and resell it in the future without even having had all the pleasure that comes with owning a GN !...
I guess..."to each his own"...
Claude :smile:
I guess..."to each his own"...
Claude :smile:
Im right there with you Claude... I like to enjoy my cars, not throw them in a museum. And I also agree about famous people. WHO gives a crud. They are just people... I dont care if a celebrity, famous race car driver, or a kid living in Utah owned it.
"NothinYet", I guess you're right about some people that are willing to pay a lot more for a car that has belonged to someone "famous" in the past...fine for them, but not me. I'm speaking for MYSELF here when I say that I wouldn't pay a cent more for that...WHO CARES about who owned the car before??...But that's only my OWN personal opinion...I see myself more like an "enjoyer" of my GN, than a car collector who is going to store the car and resell it in the future without even having had all the pleasure that comes with owning a GN !...
I guess..."to each his own"...
Claude :smile:
Well for what it’s worth here is my experience. I have a GN on hand with no more than 40K miles. Around 15K miles, they changed the dash to GNX style dash, which was set at 0 miles. When I ran the car fax, it shows that the mileage may have been tampered with. My thinking is that; the car may have gone to the Emissions test with 15K miles initially and showed back up few years later with the GNX dash and less miles on the clock the few years earlier. Therefore, the inconsistency in the mileage showed up on the car fax. The good new is that; we don’t have to test our cars (pre 1995) for emissions any more in IL. So it will not show up on car fax.
I think if you hang on the old cluster and show the future buyer that I changed the dash at so and so miles and now I have so and so miles on the GNX dash combine both cluster miles for the total of X number of miles. If you are not going to sell the car then who gives a $&%t.
Just my $.02
Prasad
I think if you hang on the old cluster and show the future buyer that I changed the dash at so and so miles and now I have so and so miles on the GNX dash combine both cluster miles for the total of X number of miles. If you are not going to sell the car then who gives a $&%t.
Just my $.02
Prasad
If you documented when you did it, it would not scare me away from buying the car. The upgraded dash would definately be a plus IMHO.
My wifes car show Carfax problems due to a smog guy putting in the wrong mileage. We owned the car at the time and I could probably dig up that errored smog test.
It does not mean anything to me as the car is staying with us. If I sold it, I would not reduce the price one cent because of the Carfax report.
My wifes car show Carfax problems due to a smog guy putting in the wrong mileage. We owned the car at the time and I could probably dig up that errored smog test.
It does not mean anything to me as the car is staying with us. If I sold it, I would not reduce the price one cent because of the Carfax report.
I dont remember if it was a state law or federal but when the odometer was going to be replaced a sticker of date and milage was to be placed on the drivers doorlatch area by the other factory stickers. This is good to do if you want to document and project honesty.
But as far a value goes every mile you put on hurts value.
IMO not knowing what water temp or oil pressure you are running until its too late isnt good for the value either.
ALSO:The stock dash/odometer is easily tampered with, so if you take the odometer as gospel instead of the overall condition of the vehicle you get what you deserve.....
But as far a value goes every mile you put on hurts value.
IMO not knowing what water temp or oil pressure you are running until its too late isnt good for the value either.
ALSO:The stock dash/odometer is easily tampered with, so if you take the odometer as gospel instead of the overall condition of the vehicle you get what you deserve.....
