Creating a pro-touring GN

8

87GN&98VET

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
I currently have Eibachs (1" drop) and Bilsteins on all four corners, but I'm planning on adding 4 wheel disks, so I want to lower the car another inch to get the right look. I have two options:
1. Use B-body Bell Tech 2" drop spindles with OE height springs with a higher spring rate. Has anyone ever used B-body drop spindles? If so, what wheel offset is needed?
2. Cut 1" out of my Eibachs and use with OE B-body spindles. Will this require too much shimming to get a 0 camber?

My wheels are 17x8 ROH Snypers with 4.5" of backspacing. I appreciate any advise you could lend....
 
It seams like some people had problems with the drop spindles, which is either due to the positive camber curve of the G-body spindles or a low spring rate. I figured that going to a B-body drop spindle and OE height springs with a higher spring rate would cure the bottom out problems. But I figured 2" drop with springs alone would require too much shimming, which would ultimately reduce handling and steering performance. Also, all the spring manufactures I could find (Eibach, Hotchkis, Suspension Techniques, etc) all only advertise 1" drop springs - no 2" drop. Where is everyone getting these 2" drop springs? There was an article in GM High Tech Performance a while back on a GN (w/ 17" Torque Thrust Wheels) and it said he used 2.5" drop springs in the front (car looked more like a 2" drop) and 2" drop springs in the rear (car looked more like a 1.5" drop) from Suspension Techniques - but their website only advertises 1" drop. There was also an article in Popular Hot Rodding a while back that talked about dropping the car and installing a Bear brake system, but again they said they only used springs and the car looked like it was dropped at least 2". What gives?
 
turbo & high tech performance

You migh want to check out the latest issue (october) of turbo & high tech performance. There is an article on their project GN. They install B-body spindles, tubular a-arms from hotchkis and brakes from baer.

Chris
 
No sh*t? I thought they had gotten rid of their GN since I haven't seen it in a while. I'll go out and pick it up. Thanks.
 
The white car did get stolen, they bought a GN and are working on it now.


Rick Elam
1987 White Turbo-T
 
Rick,

I saw your car in GM High Tech Performance - very nice ride. What did you do to get your stance? Drop spindles? Drop springs? I have the mag right here and it says you used Eibachs, but your car looks much lower than mine. I've got the Eibach Pro kit. If you do have springs that dropped it 2", did you have a problem shimming it to get 0 camber? Did you stick with G-body spindles or go with B-body spindles? I love it when magazines do articles on our cars but sometimes they do not go into enough detail.

Also, what are your thoughts on the brake booster? I'm thinking of converting to vacuum when I convert to 4-wheel disks.

By the way, I went to Borders to get the October issue of Turbo but they already pulled it and replaced it with the November issue.
 
Hello,

Thanks for the kind words about the car, I understand the confusion especially since the suspension was never really detailed in the article.

To be honest with you the reason it was not detailed is because at the time of the writing of the article it was quite crude to be honest. It is true that the car did have eibach springs, but they were cut significantly to get the car to sit the way I wanted it for the shoot. Due to the way the car was shot, and the angle of the pictures it is hard to tell, but to be honest right now the car sits at 2.5" lower than stock.

The car retained the factory spindle, as I did not want to do the "tall" B-spindle upgrade due to the amount of bumpsteer that it causes. Since that spindle is a cast design it does not offer the option of modifying the steering arm.

The car is currently apart (completly redoing it) and I am just starting to get to the suspension. I have a lot of ideas, basically I am designing a SLA front suspension (I plan on trying some different tall spindle designs) along with a custom upper and lower control arm. I am also leaning at coilovers up front (and I plan on lowering the car another 1/2 to 1").

As for the rear it is still up in the air, but it will feature a wider tire than before. :)

As for the booster, I like it and have had no problems with the vacuum set up. It is definatly a good alternative to the people having problems with the powermaster units.

Hope that helps!
Thanks
Rick Elam
 
Originally posted by WHITE T


The car retained the factory spindle, as I did not want to do the "tall" B-spindle upgrade due to the amount of bumpsteer that it causes.

Click to expand...

While that is an alledged down side, it far outweighs the bass ackwards chamber curve of the oem set up.

IMO, you're going a lil over the top with redesigning the front end geometry unless you talking about a roll cage to tie all the elements of the frame together. While the front cross member is half way stiff, everything around it is limp noodle time.

Steering arm, and idle arm rehash would cure the bump steer, cough, problem, cough.
I have the 12 brakes up front, and with stiff springs the bump street problem is hardly an issue. And while slightly noticeable with soft springs, with the soft springs, the worse characteristic is the serious nose dive, during heavy braking.

Your results my differ.
Not to be attempted without adult supervision.
Off Highway use,
no lottering....
 
Thanks for clearifying that for me Rick. Good luck with the rebuild and the new suspension, sounds like a hell of a project. Hopefully we'll see it show up in another magazine when she's all done. Since you work for Baer, what wheel offset do you need for your pro kit? I have 17x8 ROH Snypers with 4.5" of backspacing.

Also thanks to 1QuikV6 for the article. I'm going to call Eibach about their Sportline kit. I wonder why they don't advertise it online????

I'll probably end up going with shorter springs (if they do indeed exist) or cut my current Eibachs, B-spindles, bump steer kit, and (hopefully) Baers all around if I have any money left.....

Thanks again...
 
Hey Bruce,


IMO, you're going a lil over the top with redesigning the front end geometry unless you talking about a roll cage to tie all the elements of the frame together. While the front cross member is half way stiff, everything around it is limp noodle time.

Yes, I agree and this will be done. I am going to try some elaborate stuff, that is why I did not get into too much detail. I want to see if it can be done before I get too caried away! :)


Steering arm, and idle arm rehash would cure the bump steer, cough, problem, cough.

:)


Thanks!
Rick Elam
 
Hey 87GN&98VET


Thanks for the words of encouragement! :) I think this time I am going off the deep end! :) I do have some plans for the car when it is "finally" finished, and it will appear in various "things" :)

As for the Pro system, it is hard to go by backspacing because many times we worry about spoke taper (basically the spoke cutting inward and hitting the caliper). The best way to verify this is to download a template off of our website http://www.baer.com. You can also contact Jeff at Group A, he can verify clearance.

Good luck with your project, if you need anything let me know!

Thanks!
Rick Elam
 
This is an interesting thread as I am in the middle of putting my front suspension together. I am going a little different route as well although I'm using the B-body spindles. I saw a web site from someone who fixed the bump steer by using some rod ends to lower the steering attachment point.

I got control arms, cross-shafts, and ball joints from Stock Car Products, made to my specs, for $177 total. They have steel bushings that're greasable; fine by me since the T-type's going to be mostly a race car. I could get nylon bushings in there pretty easily as well. These are not a total bolt on though as the cross-shafts are on 6" centers and come with weld-in brackets. I like this as I'll be able to raise the pivot point of the uppers and reduce camber change as well as set the caster.

I need to read a suspension article or two so I can get an intelligent idea on where to relocate them, however.. :)
 
Thanks for the reference.

KendallF, Baer offers a Baer Tracker bump steer adjustable tie rod set for $149.00.
 
Originally posted by 87GN&98VET
Thanks for the reference.

KendallF, Baer offers a Baer Tracker bump steer adjustable tie rod set for $149.00.
Click to expand...

That's more than I paid for the whole front suspension... :D I will see what it feels like when I get it together, I guess.
 
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