Coolants

ChavoLC2

New Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Normally I run distilled H20 and water wetter during the summer works good. Was reading up on a non pressure NPG-non aqueos propylene glycol coolant product. Was wondering if any of you use Evans Cooling NPG coolant versus good ol' EGW-ethlyene glycol water? Sounds like this coolant has many benefits thaat would be advantageous to forced induction. Then again why change the regular coolant system if does it's job.. The old saying "if works- why fix it"???. Guess you have to drain every trace/drop of H20 and EGW-Coolant from engine., heater core etc .etc ..because they are contaminants....may not be worth all the trouble if there isn't much difference and it's 32 a gallon...Copied the following off their site.






Introduction

Like all competition engine builders, Jack Evans spent years working to find a way to run race cars faster without damaging levels of detonation, pre-ignition knock, and internal engine damage. His conclusion was that water in the cooling system was the cause of existing problems and a substitute coolant needed to be developed to allow engine development to move forward.

Through rigorous testing on dynamometers, at race tracks and in climate controlled OEM laboratory environments, Evans developed and quantitatively proved a new cooling technology by eliminating the use of water. The new coolant, EVANS Non-Aqueous Propylene Glycol (NPG), has an efficiency considerably superior to conventional coolants and has a boiling/vaporization point considerably higher than conventional water-based coolants. The end result is greater thermal efficiency and fuel mileage while at the same time reducing detonation, pre-ignition emissions and wear. Better yet, EVANS NPG Coolant is essentially non-toxic, non-corrosive, and operates with zero pressure.

After ten years of development and testing with vehicle manufacturers, over-the-road truck fleets, and some pretty hard hitting race teams, EVANS NPG Coolant and coordinated cooling systems components are a reality. The best news is that EVANS NPG Coolant and all of the associated components are available from the leader in the development of automotive cooling systems, designed individually for YOUR race car or high performance vehicles.

Gain Power From Your Cooling System


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Run Faster, Run Better? How Do You Do It?

Race engines have the capacity of operating at much higher efficiencies and power production levels than used at today's limits, but there has been no practical way to accomplish this without causing localized coolant boiling and the resultant destructive detonation. When this happens, the coolant loses it's ability to absorb heat from that particular area of the combustion chamber, developing high temperature spikes. The result is detonation or component structural metal failure.

Evans Cooling Systems, Inc. Breakthrough:

Evans NPG Coolant and related components are designed with the ability to reduce hot spots while raising the coolant boiling point and decreasing the volume of vapor generated when compared to typical ethylene glycol / water (EGW) mixtures. Race car testing has shown that even if forced to operate at up to 300° F, detonation control and previously forbidden combustion pressures and temperatures are no longer the danger they were to thermal engine efficiency and durability.

Traditional Systems Shortcomings

Within all cooling systems is the normal occurring phenomenon called Nucleate Boiling:

What Is Nucleate Boiling?

Nucleate boiling is the boiling that takes place when liquid coolant comes in direct contact with the hot metal of the engine block or cylinder heads which has reached or exceeded the boiling point of the coolant.

Under these conditions, the liquid turns to a vapor as it boils at the hot metal surface, and will then finally break away to be replaced by additional liquid coolant. Very large amounts of heat are absorbed into this layer of liquid coolant from the metal surfaces of the engine, yet those surface temperatures in a controlled nucleate condition never rise much beyond the boiling point of the coolant, and thermal control is maintained. Nucleate boiling is reduced or eliminated when the coolant itself becomes continuously displaced from the metal surface by a layer of vapor called a "film blanketing" (surface) layer. When blanketing occurs, the metal surface becomes insulated from the surrounding liquid coolant, and an ever - increasing localized high temperature spike develops.


Engine Thermal Cutaway

(A) The loss of Nucleate Boiling, the common problem with conventional water based coolants.

The loss of Nucleate Boiling causing a vapor blanket to be formed as the metal temperature has exceeded the thermal capacity of a water-based coolant. A hot spot develops because the vapor blanket keeps the coolant from contacting the hot spot and increased detonation results. The very high surface tension of the water-generated steam promotes the formation of the vapor blanket and eventually destructive levels of pre-ignition ("knock") occur. Sustained Nucleate Boiling reveals continuous heat transfer through the uninterrupted liquid-to-metal contact of the NPG Coolant.

(B) Demonstrates high engine load sustained "Nucleate Boiling", free of surface vapor blanketing, attainable only with Evans NPG Cooling.

Sustained Nucleate Boiling reveals continuous heat transfer. The relatively low surface tension of NPG Coolant aids in the breaking away of vapor and the movement of coolant across the hot spots, controlling surface vapor and surface coolant replenishment. The result, lower metal temperatures at the hot spot in each cylinder.


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Evans NPG Cooling Maintains Nucleate Boiling Conditions

Testing history and experience tell us that conventional coolant systems always experience a loss of nucleate boiling which then originates and increases the condition of surface film vapor blanketing whenever an engine is in a high load or temperature operation. It is no surprise that auto makers as well as after market manufacturers have been combating this problem with multitudes of accessories, additives and applying performance limitations on engine design. By contrast, the Evans NPG Cooling Technology has eliminated the problem!

Evans NPG Coolant; The No Water Coolant Breakthrough

Evans NPG Coolant is inhibited 100% propylene glycol. Evans NPG Coolant can maintain a substantially vapor free liquid to metal contact (nucleate vapor only) at all coolant temperatures and engine loads. Additionally, the small amount of vapor generated during nucleate boiling is easily swept off the metal surface and then completely condensed within the coolant jackets of the cylinder heads thereby never passing on to the radiator.

The Evans NPG Cooling System is Non - Pressurized

That's right, the Evans NPG System eliminates the pressure cap - the cooling system works with no system pressure. Evans NPG Coolant's incredible atmospheric thermal capacity eliminates any need of a pressure assist to bolster its capabilities. This advanced coolant and cooling system also yield corrosion-less cooling by the total elimination of water and the unique, long life corrosion inhibiting formula.

Why No Water?

Because anything else with a low boiling point in the system, such as water, causes the loss of nucleate boiling. In fact, water is a contaminant to the proper working of the new system and is eliminated by the Evans Technology which continuously moves it out of the cooling system.

Increases the Longevity Of Your Cooling System!

Beyond the distinct safety advantages of a non - pressurized cooling system, Evans NPG Cooling Systems will vastly reduce your car maintenance costs. Evans NPG Coolant virtually eliminates all three major forces (high pressure, water and air) that are detrimental to conventional ethylene glycol and water pressurized cooling systems and their longevity. Now it is possible for your high performance cooling system components to last up to 100,000 miles.

Note: Evans NPG™ Cooling Systems have been successfully installed in thousands of vehicles worldwide. Several test vehicles have used the coolant for over 500,000 miles without a major component replacement, changing coolant or having additive levels fall outside of manufacturing tolerances. The additives do not deplete and the radiator core tubes do not clog.

A True "Bolt - On" System

You can attain all of the benefits of the Evans NPG Cooling System with ease. Quite simply, Evans NPG Cooling Systems require no major mechanical changes, just a parts exchange. You may need the specialized NPG™ coolant pump, NPG™ radiator with a non - pressurized radiator cap as well as the new Evans NPG™ Coolant. (See our Catalog page for details.) With a few tools and our easy to follow, step - by - step, instructions, you can easily and safely convert your vehicle to the Evans NPG™ Cooling Systems in a couple of hours.
 
Save your money and use water with RMI-25.

IIRC this Evans stuff was being used in heavy equipment and over the road diesels long before Evans started hyping it as snake oil.
 
In the current issue of GM High Tech, they added Evans to an 87 GN and picked up 23 HP and 38 lb ft of torque. Is this possible?
 
In the current issue of GM High Tech, they added Evans to an 87 GN and picked up 23 HP and 38 lb ft of torque. Is this possible?

That was only one factor in the article. They also did several other things (de-carboned the engine, cleaned the intercooler, etc...)

Rob
 
With the Evans stuff, what happens if you break down on the road somewhere with a coolant leak?? Can't add water and if you don't have a bottle of their coolant with you I guess you are screwed.

I run distilled with RMI year round even here in the cold winter of New England. Course the GN sits in a heated garage all winter.:biggrin: Guess I am I am in trouble if we have a long term power outage.:smile:

Just wondering, will RMI cause a problem with bearings like normal antifreeze if you blow a head gasket.:confused:
 
With the Evans stuff, what happens if you break down on the road somewhere with a coolant leak?? Can't add water and if you don't have a bottle of their coolant with you I guess you are screwed.

I was thinking the same thing. Would have to carry an extra gallon in the trunk, I guess.
 
There's a whole lot of science/technology/explanation with regards to knock, and how it happens, in that GMHTP(April 2009) article. Good tips on a new product for getting the carbon deposits out of our engines too. It's well worth the reading, whether you ever use the Evans products or not.
 
Interestin but Eric is right. It's not new, just the hype. It does work but how much will it cost is the real question.
 
That was only one factor in the article. They also did several other things (de-carboned the engine, cleaned the intercooler, etc...)

Rob
I called the folks at Run-Rite to see what their de-carbon stuff costs. They charge $80 but told me to check with Sears as they do the process, using the Run-Rite ingredients. Sears charges $80 which is a three step process. Clean engine of carbon, add something to oil, and also to gas tank to clean injectors.

Interestin but Eric is right. It's not new, just the hype. It does work but how much will it cost is the real question.
It appears, as per the article, that they only used the Evans NPG+. They did not replace the water pump or radiator. Prices are on the Evans website. I think it was $27/gallon.
 
Motorvac does the same carbon removal but it's more expensive. I've used it at work and couldn't believe how well it worked. A 6.0 with a clogged injector (which is VERY common) and it was unclogged and the intake was cleaned as well. Not cheep but it DOES work.
 
Run silica free toyota anti freeze. W/o the silica, if you blow a HG or coolant gets into the oil, you will not ruin your bearings because the toyota anti freeze lacks the abrasive element silica.

As far as this other stuff goes, run meth. "problem" solved.
 
With the Evans stuff, what happens if you break down on the road somewhere with a coolant leak?? Can't add water and if you don't have a bottle of their coolant with you I guess you are screwed.

I run distilled with RMI year round even here in the cold winter of New England. Course the GN sits in a heated garage all winter.:biggrin: Guess I am I am in trouble if we have a long term power outage.:smile:

Just wondering, will RMI cause a problem with bearings like normal antifreeze if you blow a head gasket.:confused:

Thats the great part of RMI 25 Does Not hurt the bearings! I blew a HG & they still looked perfect.
 
I called the folks at Run-Rite to see what their de-carbon stuff costs. They charge $80 but told me to check with Sears as they do the process, using the Run-Rite ingredients. Sears charges $80 which is a three step process. Clean engine of carbon, add something to oil, and also to gas tank to clean injectors.


It appears, as per the article, that they only used the Evans NPG+. They did not replace the water pump or radiator. Prices are on the Evans website. I think it was $27/gallon.

And don't forget that the prep fluid (to absorb any H20 in the cooling system after draining the block and radiator) is about $30 a gallon. We used about 2 gallons. Prep fluid can be reused if you boil in on your grill to get rid of the absorbed water - just filter it and re-use.

And by the way, the GN used for the article was one of mine. I just had to show up with the car and did some work for few hours. ;)

Since the car is stock in all aspects (the valve cover breathers, ds & ps, were added during the article once the intercooler was cleaned) there is no need to change either the H2O pump or the radiator. Both are original to the car and work fine. A smaller diameter billet H2O pump pulley was provided to me but not used. Again, stock engine so no need for it. If it was a track-only car with 500+ HP, I'd reconsider using billet pulleys.
 
Just one question- when the engine gets de-carboned, where does the carbon go? Can it go into the turbo and cause problems? Ok, another question- how did you get them to use your car?
 
Hi Rick,

The run-rite product will dissolve the carbon deposits which are then burned up during the normal combustion process.

here is a link to the run-rite product page with some specific on the product and related video on its use...

Run-Rite.com : PRODUCTS: Run-Rite Professional Fuel System Cleaner

No problems to the turbine wheel or the catalytic converter (yes the car has one, put a NOS one on it 1993 when I cleaned up the car). The only trace you might see of the carbon is in the exhaust pipe - a little black soot lining the inside of the pipe. But I think every pipe on any car will turn your finger black if you swipe the inside.

Ida Automotive is a performance/street rod shop very close to Raceway Park, Englishtown, NJ. They are the metro NY factory Ford authorized shop to do the supercharger addition to the Ford GT. They will also fabricate and build any street rod you want - '41 Willys, '34 Ford, etc. Discovery channel is filming at their shop the fabrication of a Tucker (sheet metal by hand) that will have a powertrain of today's technology. That project itself will take about a year.

Bob and Robbie Ida get tech requests for the use of their facility from various magazines. The Ida's are friends of mine. When the shop got the tech request for an unmodified turbo Buick (GN a +) that had some miles on the clock (since we're looking to remove intake valve deposits and combustion chamber deposits as part of the article), I was asked if I would consider bringing this one to their shop for the GMHTP article. I spoke with the GMHTP writer and set things up from there.

Two small points to note that did not make it into the article are that the coilpak and ignition module was also tested with Casper's C3I Ignition Simulator (pic only shows me with a meter on one of the coil towers) and that my stock injectors were tested/flowed/cleaned by Richard Clark just before we did this tech article. Bob Ida also verified the injectors.

So in pic #2 when the caption says "...set everything to factory specifications..." that was verifying the TPS, IAC, BLM, INT, etc. to make sure there was nothing out of adjustment before we started. :biggrin:
 
Anthony- So now I need a refractrometer...or whatever they called it. I googled it and it is rather expensive. I will contact the local water survey office here and see if I can use theirs. They test water for free so I'm sure they would have one. Thanks for your reply.
 
inexpensive source for a refractometer...

Rick,
If you haven't been able to track one down yet, this may help. harborfreight dot com has one for $47 - part # 90716

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

When needed, I've purchased stuff like this from them as I can't see spending $$$$ for the same thing from an industrial tool company or a laboratory science supply company when it will only be used on occasion.

For example, the fiber optic camera used to inspect cylinders via the spark plug hole and without having to remove the heads was only a few hundred bucks compared to about a thousand for an industrial grade one. A non-contact laser thermometer (for surface temps) was also a good buy.

thought this might help you out.

-Anthony
 
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