carb turbo no computer...

2

231_natural

New Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
I've been watching montess thread and others on the matter of converting n/a to turbo and am very interested. I have an 83 canadian built 3.8 in my cutlass with no computer from the factory. I have a edel intake and carb that I will be installing in the next couple of weeks. I was wondering if it would be less complicated or more complicated to install a blow thru turbo setup on 3.8 without the computer?
I have a wtb add for a r/h side exhaust manifold in the parts wanted section. What other components can I use that are factory carb turbo components? I will be watching the other threads on this topic closely. thanks.
 
I was wondering if it would be less complicated or more complicated to install a blow thru turbo setup on 3.8 without the computer?

Less complicated for sure.

What other components can I use that are factory carb turbo components? I will be watching the other threads on this topic closely. thanks. '

Not carbed stuff but 86-'87 entire exhaust system and turbo would be ideal and cheap.
 
Blow thru is the way to go.

Honestly,

I wil admit that im SUPER F'n biased to the drawthru, only because im obsessed with making people cry with inferior $hit. makes me feel good. :D

But blow thru isnt really cheaper than a factory draw thru setup per say, but will make 3 times the power is you pay attention to what your doing. It all boils down to one key element.

INTERCOOLER!

As we all know, that charge coming out of the turbo is cookin' and is doing the same thing to the inside of your engine, Going blowthru allows you to use a factory 86/87 intercooler. or bigger, if the power demand is out there.

so for what you need? heres a list.

86/87 exhaust manifolds and exhaust. down pipe is of your choice. THDP is worth the money

86/87 turbo.... or others depending on desired power level.

86/87 intercooler..... or others depending on desired power level

86/87 cam, or comparable grind. or others depending on desired power level

edelbrock intake. the wieand is OK, but not that great on the bottom end. **UNLESS** you have the old skool one like Adam.

demon or holley blow thru carb. 550 to 650 CFM. mods can be done on a regular one if you have the mechanical kno-how.

electric fuel pump. can be stock 86-87 in-tank unit, or aftermarket pump. just insure adequate fuel volume and or pressure suited to the level of performance desired.

boost referenced fuel regulator. as your blowing thru the carb, the fuel pressure will have to rise on a 1-1 or I like a 1.32-1 ratio with boost. this keeps metering accurate for various boost levels.

Timing control. there are many ways to do this, 79 style ESC box, work on knock alone, while a MSD boost timing master will retard spark in relation to rise in boost. both are excellent systems. I like to personally use BOTH at the same time! no more blown motors for me!

umm......... what else? i reckon thats basicly everything you need.

:biggrin:A.j.
 
Good write up A.J. I want to add two important things:
I will always recommend a wideband oxygen senor, The Air/fuel ratio is VERY important. I thought I was a great spark plug reader until I got my wideband I'll never go back now.
Carb hat or bonnet Is also VERY important, the shape, the volume, and inlet diameter make huge impacts on drivability and power, along with sealing it to the top of the carb.
 
That great, my next question was going to be what exactly do I need. So thanks....let the shopping begin. Just a little lost when talking about O2 sensors and ESC boxes. Does this apply to me as there is no computer with my engine. I think I read somewhere that the n/a block is good to about 400hp before you're running into real problems. I would be thrilled to have 250 or 300hp. Would I still need to have these computer components.
I have a r/h side exhaust manifold add in the WTB section, I think I will change it to the all the exhaut components. Can someone list the exact exhaust components I'll need off a 86/87 TR?
 
231_natural said:
I've been watching montess thread and others on the matter of converting n/a to turbo and am very interested. I have an 83 canadian built 3.8 in my cutlass with no computer from the factory. I have a edel intake and carb that I will be installing in the next couple of weeks. I was wondering if it would be less complicated or more complicated to install a blow thru turbo setup on 3.8 without the computer?
I have a wtb add for a r/h side exhaust manifold in the parts wanted section. What other components can I use that are factory carb turbo components? I will be watching the other threads on this topic closely. thanks.
Click to expand...

231_natural said:
That great, my next question was going to be what exactly do I need. So thanks....let the shopping begin. Just a little lost when talking about O2 sensors and ESC boxes. Does this apply to me as there is no computer with my engine. I think I read somewhere that the n/a block is good to about 400hp before you're running into real problems. I would be thrilled to have 250 or 300hp. Would I still need to have these computer components.
I have a r/h side exhaust manifold add in the WTB section, I think I will change it to the all the exhaut components. Can someone list the exact exhaust components I'll need off a 86/87 TR?
Click to expand...

The exhaust headers, crossover, turbo, downpipe, and intercooler set up will be required out of the 86-87 car. You could use an after market set of headers if you want to but the cheap ones have fitment issues so fab work will be required.

The ignition parts off of an eariler design will keep detonation from happening easier as well as the MSD BTM unit tied in. The wide band will tell you if the engine has leaned out which will cause detonation. No, you don't have to use them but if the engine starts into a detonation cycle you can destroy it very quickly. All of us have learned this the hard way and that's why we mention using them. To keep the engine alive

I'll defer to Adam and Aj on the carb selection because I don't do Holley but I may (shut up Aj:smile:) end up changing my mind. I'm a firm believer in the draw through set up and I prefer the factory carb but it does need modifying and tuning.
 
LMAO........ Charlie... your so funny.

Well I have seen a few quadrajets blown thru and it just isnt very successful. What makes a quad sooooo good in a regular application is what makes it soo poor for blowthru.

The hardest part, is getting them to seal. they usually leak really bad from all sorts of little places where the top to base meet and the gasket area is thin. The throttle bushings, werent designed to keep pressure in, more so Vaccum in.

So that the only time I see the holley as a viable replacement.

However, the part that is most important............. is the fact its SPREAD BORE. retain that and the drivability issues usually associated with a holley are significantly reduced. The only problem left to face is the fact its a Holley, and needs to be tuned on a regular basis... especially if you live where the weather changes quickly. As those upside down fuel seats are just stupid sensitive.

A.j.
 
WarWagon said:
Good write up A.J. I want to add two important things:
I will always recommend a wideband oxygen senor, The Air/fuel ratio is VERY important. I thought I was a great spark plug reader until I got my wideband I'll never go back now.
Carb hat or bonnet Is also VERY important, the shape, the volume, and inlet diameter make huge impacts on drivability and power, along with sealing it to the top of the carb.
Click to expand...


What type or brand of carb hat do you guys recommend? There is a bunch on ebay.
I think I will start by getting all the exhaust/piping/intercooler and bonnet components. Right now I have an edel carb and intake so I will keep that for now. I will worry about the cam and sensors down the road as well. I'm too impatient to get everything and install it all at once. If I can get the turbo on with all the exhaust, intercooler and piping and have it functioning then I will add the rest to finish it off.
How much money do you think I am looking at for these parts total to get it up and running?
 
For carb hat look for a Spectre hat with 4" inlet or EV hat " extreme velocity" 4" inlet. DON"T get a turbonetics hat.
It's my opinion but I'd save up for the wideband o2 controller and install it when you get your basic turbo system together. You WILL need it when you start tuning the carb and it could help SAVE your engine if the tuning goes sour.
Price depends on what you get new and used and free,, If you HUSTLE you might get it together for 1k or less.
 
You're welcome to tell us how much parts will cost. We're all cheap so if we tell you that a better price is out there then believe us, it is.:biggrin:
 
Intercooler $50.00
Intercooler Brackets $40.00
Intercooler Fan $30.00
Up Pipe $25.00
Headers w/crossover $150.00
Shipping to Canada $85.00

325.00 shipped. what do you guys think? Think of anything else?
 
It's a china turbo.
Everything in that kit is good encept the turbocharger, I'd give the waste gate and BOV a second lookover.
 
That's not the best parts for what you want to do. As far as the rest from Canada that's not to bad so you should be good if the headers don't need welding up because of cracking.
 
The China turbos are a real hit and miss....

I have been lucky on several using them right out of the box, but have had a few failures.

The best bet is to order one and then rebuild using premium components. When done like this, the results can be really good. as the internals are what are crap on the china units. So far my girlfriends impala wagon uses a china T70 and has held for almost 30K+ miles with only the occasional puff of smoke.

The Catch..... these turbos are not the best option for the beginner. They need somebody to be able to reconize the first signs of turbo failure or damage, as its still a gamble cause of inferior materials. go china!

:rolleyes:A.j.
 
I know what you mean A.j. I have seen two nice china turbo's operate and several bad ones get toasted and desinigrate.

Anyone know anything about: Comp Turbo
 
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