Best parts for this combo?

calais1965

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Hello!

I have been building my car for strip, i have ordered tons of parts and few are missing...
Body have been modified with lot of weight savings fiberglass bumpers, hood lid, aluminium drums, ac and door safety bars removed etc.
I have hotchkiss tubular arms in front and ssm control arms rear with airbags.
Fuel system is Jaz tank, 1/2" feed lines with aeromotive a1000 pump+controller.

Transmission is extreme automatics stage2+transbrake, converter vigilante 3200 lockup.

Motor is:

109 block
+30 Je Pistons
h-beam rods
steel crank
GN1 aluminium heads
70 tb
Kb-headers
alky
pt-70
3" down pipe
Big front mount cooler
billet caps & girdle
New bearings & oil pump
roll master Timing set
Tial wastegate.
sfi harmonic balancer.
Maf translator pro
Modded ecm

I think i will use 120 lbs injectors and buy spohn roll gage...


Question is:
Should i go with E85?`
What would be best cam for this setup?
How fast and how much hp this combo will work???


Thanks!

JP
 
1)If you go E85 you're going to need a bigger pump.

2) I would use the GEN 2 vs. the Trans plus, unless you're set on speed density. I don't know speed density, so I stuck with the Gen2.

3)Get a wideband like the LC1. FullThrottle sells them I believe. You can also get your cam from them. Reason being is that you can plug your wideband into the Gen2/Trans pro and the WB will auto-correct for whatever AFR you set. Really nice feature

4)Look into a fuel pressure transducer from Alky Control (Razor is his name here aka Julio) to monitor the fuel pressure. I will be running 30+psi myself, so knowing the fuel pressure is critical to know if you're running out of fuel, tuning adjustments, and general information regarding your fuel system.

5)What fuel pressure regulator are you going to use?

6)What type of fuel rail? If you go Champion, get them anodized. I believe Tom can get them done for you, or there is a place near me that charged me 65$ to get them done. Look at my thread in this section "First methanol street car using stock ecm" and you can see how close they match the AN fittings. You need them anodized because the ethanol will eventually corrode the aluminum. IMO-I'd just have Tom do it if you buy them from Champion (if they offer it). Otherwise I can drive down and do it for you. No charge. I'll send you a receipt and just pay me the cost of what I paid in gas (I'll even log how many miles I drive :p )

7)What about your fuel lines? Jegs pro flo 200 lines are rated to withstand e85 and methanol. I'd go -8 all the way and Y into a dual -6 feed into each rail (assuming you are using independent rails). If you use stock rails then I believe somewhere here (I think turbofabricator) modifies stock rails to have dual-feed. The pro flo 200 lines are real inexpensive, and I used jegs fittings as well.


If you do go E85, grab a 25 micron SS filter from Kinsler. They're the only ones who make it (not interferring with vendors here) and the element is huge, so the flow will not be hindered. They also specialize in spring/alky cars, so they have whatever you'll need to make the fuel system work.

I chose E85/ Methanol because its cheaper, and much more room to screwup(with alky) than gas. plus $3/gallon ain't too shabby.

I have a 6262, stock bottom end, with suspension work done and I'm aiming for 10s. I think you could go much faster with a few good pieces and some suspension work.
 
Do you think that a1000 pump is too small to feed engine with re85?
Is motor easyer to tune up with e85?

I am hoping that i find good camshaft for this combo...
 
Do you think that a1000 pump is too small to feed engine with re85?
Is motor easyer to tune up with e85?

I am hoping that i find good camshaft for this combo...

Yes. Aeromotives numbers are sometimes..."liberal" with their advertised flow rates..

E85 will spool up quicker, and its like running 105-110 octane (depending on where you live).

Cam could probably be a 212/212, maybe even more than that. I don't know much about cam sizing in relation to turbo/flow rates. It really depends on where you wanna shift at as well. If you're going to spin it to 5100 pick a smaller cam. Spinning to 6k will take a larger cam, etc.
 
This! Nice post Marley :)


1)If you go E85 you're going to need a bigger pump.

2) I would use the GEN 2 vs. the Trans plus, unless you're set on speed density. I don't know speed density, so I stuck with the Gen2.

3)Get a wideband like the LC1. FullThrottle sells them I believe. You can also get your cam from them. Reason being is that you can plug your wideband into the Gen2/Trans pro and the WB will auto-correct for whatever AFR you set. Really nice feature

4)Look into a fuel pressure transducer from Alky Control (Razor is his name here aka Julio) to monitor the fuel pressure. I will be running 30+psi myself, so knowing the fuel pressure is critical to know if you're running out of fuel, tuning adjustments, and general information regarding your fuel system.

5)What fuel pressure regulator are you going to use?

6)What type of fuel rail? If you go Champion, get them anodized. I believe Tom can get them done for you, or there is a place near me that charged me 65$ to get them done. Look at my thread in this section "First methanol street car using stock ecm" and you can see how close they match the AN fittings. You need them anodized because the ethanol will eventually corrode the aluminum. IMO-I'd just have Tom do it if you buy them from Champion (if they offer it). Otherwise I can drive down and do it for you. No charge. I'll send you a receipt and just pay me the cost of what I paid in gas (I'll even log how many miles I drive :p )

7)What about your fuel lines? Jegs pro flo 200 lines are rated to withstand e85 and methanol. I'd go -8 all the way and Y into a dual -6 feed into each rail (assuming you are using independent rails). If you use stock rails then I believe somewhere here (I think turbofabricator) modifies stock rails to have dual-feed. The pro flo 200 lines are real inexpensive, and I used jegs fittings as well.


If you do go E85, grab a 25 micron SS filter from Kinsler. They're the only ones who make it (not interferring with vendors here) and the element is huge, so the flow will not be hindered. They also specialize in spring/alky cars, so they have whatever you'll need to make the fuel system work.

I chose E85/ Methanol because its cheaper, and much more room to screwup(with alky) than gas. plus $3/gallon ain't too shabby.

I have a 6262, stock bottom end, with suspension work done and I'm aiming for 10s. I think you could go much faster with a few good pieces and some suspension work.
 
Hello!

Sorry, for mistake i have gen 2 translator.
Fuellines will be chemical resistanse polyethene pipe, fuel rails are my own made from aluminium bar.
Pressure regulator comes from aeromotive.
I also have lc-1.
 
Hello!

Sorry, for mistake i have gen 2 translator.
Fuellines will be chemical resistanse polyethene pipe, fuel rails are my own made from aluminium bar.
Pressure regulator comes from aeromotive.
I also have lc-1.

you're going to need to get the fuel rail anodized. Otherwise it will corrode.

What configuration is the rail going to be? (stock style 1-piece, or separate 2-piece?)

Also- I'd grab 120lbers when you get your injectors. Whether you go E85 or not, the 120s will allow for lots of expansion.

Here is a breakdown of fuel pumps that I've found from asking around:

Aeromotive: you might want to expect 10-30% less flow than advertised. Will work with E85

Magnafuel: their big pumps will only run for 30-45 minutes. Smaller ones will last longer, but if you run E85 you need to drain the system after each use.

Fuel lab: They have built-in controllers, which is cool. However there seems to be a few issues here and there that people have. I'm skeptical of their pump output numbers.

Walbro: dual in-tanks will work, and save you a lot of money. Checkout racetronix for a double-pumper setup

Weldon: will flow more than you'll ever need. Also cost more, but have a lifetime warranty. You also get a flow sheet of your own pump to know exactly what it puts out.

Holley: has a cool new inline pump that will flow a good amount. Pretty affordable

SX: good pumps from what I hear. dual pumps will flow enough for you

Waterman: cable-driven pump that will output more than youll even use. Its the tits. However its probably not needed in your case.


IMO: I researched this stuff for weeks on end (seriously, I bet magnafuel and fuellab guys know me by name now..) and I ended up going with a Weldon 2345A. Its expensive, but where I got it from pulled all the pumps off the shelf and gave me the one that flows the most (mine flows 15gph more than a regular 2345a) and explained how to wire the pump so that a controller is not needed. (saves you 300$) there.

So if you figure getting enough fuel in pumps alone is going to be between 500-800$, and if you get dual pumps, youll need 2 controllers, which is 300$ each, so thats between 1100-1400$. So going with the Weldon was the easy choice.

However I am running methanol, so I need 2x's more fuel than gas, so I need something that big. A lot of guys here (checkout Kevin B) are going crazy fast with a simple double-pumper!!

Also- make sure to look at the flow numbers of the pump at the psi that it will be seeing.. so if you have 45psi base pressure, and you're running 25psi, look at what the pump puts out at 70psi, because thats where it will be at pressure wise. Personally I used 80psi as the basepoint as restrictions happen and there will always be some sort of pressure buildup in a fuel system..nothing is perfect. So Although I'm running 30psi (total of 75psi) I judged everything off of 80psi to make sure I'll be safe.

But this is just how I did this. There are a lot more knowledgeable people on this board than myself. Call around to the different companies and listen to what each one says...you'll soon see who is trying to sell you on parts and who is trying to help.
 
Thanks for answer, its helpfull.

I will use two seperate rails like champion and anodise it, there will not be any corroding parts in fuel system.
Now i am pissed because i bought a1000+controller+tach driver+filter and they are not enought for my motor.
suutintukki.jpg
This is the stuff i use for fuel rails...
 
Thanks for answer, its helpfull.

I will use two seperate rails like champion and anodise it, there will not be any corroding parts in fuel system.
Now i am pissed because i bought a1000+controller+tach driver+filter and they are not enought for my motor.
View attachment 147339
This is the stuff i use for fuel rails...

damn... see if you can sell it all.

I'd go weldon and use a kinsler 25micron SS filter before you Y into the rails, and a 40micron before the pump. You could also grab a funnel-filter (look in my thread for a pic) where it filters the fuel as you put it into the tank (60 micron SS)
 
Thanks for answer, its helpfull.

I will use two seperate rails like champion and anodise it, there will not be any corroding parts in fuel system.
Now i am pissed because i bought a1000+controller+tach driver+filter and they are not enought for my motor.
View attachment 147339
This is the stuff i use for fuel rails...

You know I was thinking and I bet you could just sell your A1000 and get a Pro Series pump. It flows about 800lb/hr @psi (this is assuming 20% loss from advertised flow) which is still a ton of fuel! Then you could keep your controller and all the other stuff as well.

Make sure to use some thick 10ga wire from the alt to the pump and put an inline MAXI/sloblow fuse in it. Run that to a relay, then the relay to the pump's power. All 10ga. Run the relay and pump's ground to the battery (10ga) and you could use 14ga for the ignition to the relay, and put an inline toggle switch in it so you control when its on or off.

That way there is no issues with current draw. I believe Jegs has 25ft of 10ga for 13$?

I think that could save you money instead of selling everything. I dunno. Talk to a few more people and get their opinions. Just remember to add in 30% (roughly) more fuel when figuring what pump you'll need.

And most companies will not warranty a pump if it goes bad from E85, however they will say it works with it. Kinda how people use the walbro pumps, even though they aren't rated to work with E85. People use em, but since they aren't explicitly stated (unless I'm missing something) to work with E85, I do not think they're covered. Only reason I'm mentioning this is because a few of the companies I called said that their pumps would work with E85, but if the corrosion ruined the pump, they won't warranty it.
 
Thanks, for answer.
I am relocating battery to trunk, so wiring will not be long.
I think i will try to sell pump forward.
Other idea is to use two pumps to feed engine?

JP
 
Thanks, for answer.
I am relocating battery to trunk, so wiring will not be long.
I think i will try to sell pump forward.
Other idea is to use two pumps to feed engine?

JP

Lemme preface this with I have not been doing this years like many other knowledgeable people here. However I just went through the whole process you are going through myself.

Here is the pros and cons of 1 vs. 2 pumps:

1 Pump
Pros
*Less wiring
*If pump fails motor simply shuts off and doesn't go lean
*less plumbing (not hugely significant)
*easier to mount in tight spaces (pending the pump
*Amp draw on the system will be less than 2 pumps (Figure 1 pump drawing 18amp vs. 2 drawing 15amp)
*Only need 1 speed controller (if even needed)
*1 large pump is typically less than 2 smaller pumps when all is said and done (fittings, etc)
*If pump is capable of handling higher voltage and you upgrade later on, voltage boosters (Kenne Bell, etc) will typically allow for a significant enough amount of flow gain to negate the need for a new pump.
==For example lets take my fuel pump the Weldon 2345a. At 14v it is supposed to flow 200gph@ 80psi, and at 16.5v it flows 240gph! These work all the way to 18v too! So if my math is correct, for each additional volt above 14v you gain 16gph. So 2.5v X 16gph (per volt)=40gph gain. So if you ran it to 18v with a volt booster, you could hit 264gph (assuming all is perfect.) The cool thing is, Weldon pumps come with flow sheets and the date they were flowed, so you see proof what it flows, and some flow more than others!! 200gph is just the baseline requirement. My pump flowed 255gph@ 16.5v, so each volt above 14 added 22gph, an extra 15gph over normal!!! So if I were to hit 18v, I would see 288gph!!

**My point with all that was to show that if you get a properly sized pump right now, and upgrade later, depending on what pump you get, you can still have plenty of room for expansion!

Cons
*Pump is very large will typically need a controller (otherwise will overheat pump)
*If your pump fails when you're out driving, you're stranded (although that could happen with a million things)
*Could heat up the fuel quicker if running a small gallon fuel cell and potentially lead to vapor-lock

*I'm sure I'm forgetting quite a bit*
Expensive initial investment

2 Pumps
Pros
*Will flow enough for what you need and then some (pending pump, and 1 pump can also do this as well)
*You could run a check valve inline after 1 pump and when cruising on the street, only use 1 pump. This would save from heating the fuel, as well as not wasting amp draw from 2 pumps (not that it will be significant anyway, but hey, maybe you have a stereo or something?)
*If you wanted to go to the track, just have a toggle switch and turn the 2nd pump on and you're good to go

Cons
*Need of 2 controllers if running both pumps all the time (If you only 1 run all the time, and do the checkvalve method, you would only need 1 controller because the 2nd pump would only be on at WOT runs)
*If you run the checkvalve method with toggle switch and forget to turn the 2nd pump on, you blow your engine
*If one pump fails your engine goes lean and melts pistons
*Cost is the same, if not more than 1 pump when you add in controllers, etc
*If you ever did a volt-booster to the dual pumps, you would need 2 volt boosters (or the expensive dual ones, which are about the same as 2 individual ones)
*More things to go wrong (wiring, plumbing, etc)


I personally priced almost every option out that I could think of. It was either 2 pumps that would barely suffice (Aero Pro Series) that were warrantied for E85, and I would need 2 controllers and eventually 2 volt boosters, or 1 big pump that I would never run out of fuel.

In the end it was simple dollars-and-cents, and I actually came out with (arguably) the best and biggest electronic inline pump there is! Not only that, but it cost me less, I didn't need a volt booster, or a speed controller, and it will work to 18v if I ever need to expand it.


So just think about it and call around to different fuel pump companies. hahah I have all their numbers if you need em :D

I think doing dual inline pumps with a checkvalve and a toggle switch to turn on-off the 2nd pump would work. Price it all out (include fittings and feed line, because most take -10 or -12 and it gets pricey fast. A nice radius fitting can be 15$ for 1 fitting!)

I don't know if any of this helps, but this is kinda what I went through in my head when looking at all this stuff.

Lemme know if you have any questions. There are also a ton of people in this section with great knowledge! Checkout my build thread in this section and maybe that'll show you where I'm coming from with my fuel pump choice.
 
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