Are any of these upgrades worth it?

[87GN&98VET]

I'm thinking about a turbo / injector upgrade for my 87 GN but not sure if it's worth it. The car has 14k miles on it and sees the track once per year if at all. I've got the usual bolt on upgrades right now (see my signature) and keeping the stock appearing theme, I was thinking about adding the following mods:
- TE-44 or TA-49 turbo
- Mease 3" DP
- Stock location stretch intercooler

In GMHTP this month, it looks like the TE-44 only neted ~15hp on pump gas. I'd hate to put in a few grand worth of parts to only see a few hp on the street. I also figured that running 100 octane would cost about an extra $500/year, probably not worth it if I'm only going full throttle occationally. Since I'm running 17-18 psi on the stock turbo w/ pump gas now, is a 44 or 49 going to do anything for me at the same boost level since their sweet spot is in the mid 20 psi range? Any advantages to upgrading just the DP without the turbo / injector / intercooler upgrades?

 

[salvageV6]

Alky, then injectors, then the turbo, then the downpipe, then the.....

You will get into the sweetspot of the 44 on the street with the alky.

 

[Red Regal T]

Just a $150 diy alky kit will knock at least .5 off your current combination. Save money and your low mileage engine and do the diy alky kit.

 

[UNGN]

Originally posted by 87GN&98VET
In GMHTP this month, it looks like the TE-44 only neted ~15hp on pump gas.

This is exactly what I found years ago. On pump gas with a stock motor, you'd be hard pressed to see even a .1 second difference between a TE44/TA49 and a stocker. You will see improvement at 20-21 psi though. With alchohol injection, 20 psi should be easy obtain without knock, if you want to go that route.

A TH style downpipe (THDP/ATR/Mease) will also offer minimal gains on a street car vs. a ported elbow. Probably less than the 15 HP the turbo will give (I only saw .05/1.5 mph improvement running high 11's).

If you are currently running a cat, there is your biggest bang for the buck.

On the street, the Intercooler will provide the best performance of the three. At the track, where the car can be cooled down, the difference isn't as great.

 

[turbonatr]

While you may not see big gains in PEAK hp on pump gas with the 44/49 and 3" DP, you WILL see a noticable increase in MIDRANGE power and response due to increase efficiency and breathing ability. If not the turbo, go with a good 3" DP for quicker spooling and midrange power. The midrange is where it's at in a street car.

 

[CHARGED]

Agree with SalvageV6, + get rid of the cat if its still on there.
I don't think GMHTP mag ever gets the max out of there build ups, I and most people on here went faster then that with stock setups plus they said it had a slipping tranny.
A TE44or49 will give you much better top end, where the stock turbo just goes flat. It will all be worth it as long as u have the money to waste(spend)

 

[Red Regal T]

Originally posted by CHARGED
It will all be worth it as long as u have the money to waste(spend)

Exactly my point about diy alky. What would you rather spend, $150 or over $2000 for a te44, set of injectors, THDP, and a new intercooler........?

 

[UNGN]

Originally posted by turbonatr
While you may not see big gains in PEAK hp on pump gas with the 44/49 and 3" DP, you WILL see a noticable increase in MIDRANGE power and response due to increase efficiency and breathing ability. If not the turbo, go with a good 3" DP for quicker spooling and midrange power. The midrange is where it's at in a street car.

I actually found almost the complete opposite. Both the TA49 and the THDP increase peak HP above 4500. In the mid range barely anything (at pump gas boost levels for the turbo, even with race gas for the downpipe).

As for quicker spooling with a 3" DP I don't know how that would be quantified. I ran nearly identical back to back 1/8th mile times with a 3" THDP and 2.5"/Ported elbow. Any Free flowing exhaust will promote quicker spooling.

A good 2.5" dual system, no cat, a ported elbow and a 2.5" mandrel bent downpipe is a pretty good combo to 12.00. Switch to a better DP if going faster.

 

[turbonatr]

Not all cars are the same. Back when my T was stock, the TA49 definately picked up street performance at pump gas boost levels. Sure it picked up on the top, too, but the majority of his time is spent on the street so that is what I was addressing. 1/8 and 1/4 miles e.t.s don't always show improved spool-up performance. Again, we are talking about a driver here not a racer. Spool-up performance is better measured in 20 to 50mph and 50 to 80mph times. Even in the 1/8, you are leaving the starting line at a dead stop but with the car up against the converter loaded up with boost. It's harder to measure spool-up performace in this manner.

Again, each car is different.

 

[turbocody]

i got a mark jackson 17 row I/C on my mostly stock TR and it helped about a tenth or 2 and it's got the Dutt neck to help out with the flow.but i would suggest getting a 49 or 44 first and then get the I/C.

turbocody,
87 T

 

[TT/Ameasap]

Spend about $400 and build a DIY alky system, used set of 42.5 lb injectors w/ chip and KR gauge.

That would be good for the street.

 

[JeffG]

I know I'm going to get slammed by someone for this...but here goes:

alky injection ($200is)
Dutt neck mod on stock intercooler ($70-120)
port the stock elbow (free)
add a 9" 2700-3000 L/U converter!! (650ish)

I know the stock converter works just fine with a stock turbo. I know many have gone plenty fast with a D5 but I have had no other single mod make the car more fun to drive then the converter. Alky is a close second.
Part throttle response is hugely improved (torque multiplication probably) with the smaller converter. There may be other mods at his level that may make the car turn a quicker 1/4mile, but I would argue that there are none that will make it a funner car the drive. (Hmmmm, funner is not a word is it )

My .02

 

[87GN&98VET]

Thanks for all your replies. Very interesting responses. The alky injection appears to be the way to go to get more boost without going to race gas. From all the responses it seems that alky will give me an upgrade, with the turbo / injector / IC / DP upgrade only complementing the alky by running even higher boost due to the increased efficiency / cooler charge.

It seems that all hot rodders are religious about power adders. Right now I'm contemplating upgrades to my Corvette - do I go with head / cam, turbos, superchargers, or nitrous. I've always been against nitrous. Don't know if it's the Fast & Furious rice burner image or my own dumb ignorance. But I've always prefered a method that was available anywhere, anytime without needing to make sure my bottle was full. But now I'm thinking about this alky injection and I'm beginning to question my own religion. How's alky any different than nitrous.....

For the record, I'm already running cat-less and the stocker spools quick enough to scare the crap out of me when I get a psi or two of overboost.

 

[RUQWKNF27]

Where?????

Where can you get this $$$$$150.00 DIY alky kit????? The only one that I have seen is the SMC Kit which goes for around $380.00 or am I just reading this wrong!!!!! I guess DIY may mean DoITYourself guess I am just DUMB!! If this is so is there a site for it????/

 

[Red Regal T]

Originally posted by stevemon
Here's the reason I chose Alky;
With Alky you just drive the car and the steam effect of injecting it cleans your pistons and cylinder heads.
With NOS you clean your pistons & cylinder heads yourself when you take them out after blowing the headgaskets.

Actually, alky is not much like NOS for the above reasons. Apples and oranges. You could just inject water if you want to. Is water a power adder? Alky is more like running racegas all the time, but without the expense or having to replace an 02 sensor everytime you do. Another advantage is the cost of the system.....under $200. There are no downsides to alcohol injection. Anybody who has a turbobuick and doesn't take the advantage of running alky on the street, is just hardheaded. Check out Steve Monroe's DIY website.......

http://home.att.net/~stevemon/AlcoholInjMod.html

 

[TurboJim]

Walbro 340 pump w/hotwire $150
Adjustable reg $100
Set of used 009's or 50's $150-200
Chip $50-100
Cold air kit $100-150

Should put you deep in the 13's or even high 12's with race gas with good tires (even if you borrowed them from someone for a pass or 2.)

Add alky to the mix and you could be on semi-kill at all times.

These cars are easy to make fast. Just do the basics first. Go to gnttype.org and read Ken Moshers recipie in the tech section. No, not all cars act the same, but at least its a great guideline and pretty realistic with each step.