I think Cars Illustrated (defunct magazine) had the best review ever. They cracked off a mid 13 & took the car street racing. It was the greatest car magazine ever & they were notorious for beating the test cars & getting great times.
All stock.....bad times...
- Thread starter davef
- Start date
http://books.google.com/books?id=o6...s illustrated magazine grand national&f=false
I was curious so I did a google search and found this information about the Cars Illustrated review mentioned above but I could not find find the original review. It says they ran 13.85 @ 99.2
Since recently becoming a first time GN owner myself, and with the help of the wealth of information here I'm learning that basic mods, fine tuning and attention to detail go a long way. I prefer to consider alot of the basics "upgrades" rather than modifications, especially the fuel system. I did a lot of reading here before buying anything. After 6 months my car is just now becoming a reliable car. It seemed that every time I put about 200 miles on it something else would break so I've learned to expect it and just wonder What's next? Most recently the spring popped out of the governor in the transmission. I enjoy working on it just as much as driving it... most of the time. Haven't had a chance to take it to the track yet. I wish I'd had a chance to get more of a stock baseline and a time slip to file away.
I was curious so I did a google search and found this information about the Cars Illustrated review mentioned above but I could not find find the original review. It says they ran 13.85 @ 99.2
Since recently becoming a first time GN owner myself, and with the help of the wealth of information here I'm learning that basic mods, fine tuning and attention to detail go a long way. I prefer to consider alot of the basics "upgrades" rather than modifications, especially the fuel system. I did a lot of reading here before buying anything. After 6 months my car is just now becoming a reliable car. It seemed that every time I put about 200 miles on it something else would break so I've learned to expect it and just wonder What's next? Most recently the spring popped out of the governor in the transmission. I enjoy working on it just as much as driving it... most of the time. Haven't had a chance to take it to the track yet. I wish I'd had a chance to get more of a stock baseline and a time slip to file away.
richy rich
Richy Rich
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2003
Im with ya 100% there!I still have many of Tony Defoe's write ups!Even spoke with him on the phone recently!
They always made cars run real well-Like his 87 Mustang LX that cracked the 13's!It wasn't the cars it was good drivers in good air,and they wernt scared
to remove the sway bars,jack etc and pull the filters!
BTW 14.80 for a stock GN 25 years later-really isn't too bad-I recall a brand new one at the track back in 87 running 15.'s-and it had no mufflers?lol.
a tune up and some practice,good air,probably pick up .5 sec.
Only problem with leaving these cars stock is soo many people think they are rocket ships-12's off the showroom floor!Meanwhile any good running
Mini van or Diesel truck with a chip is a serious Threat!!LOL
Davef:
I, too, am a noob to these cars.
If you already have a new / modern chip, you're headed in the right direction. Depending on what kind it is (please let us know), you may be able to adjust fueling and spark on it. This would require a ScanMaster (about $200 new, possibly a little cheaper used on the board here).
Free mods are the best mods. Several were previously mentioned - re-routing the coolant hoses going to the throttle body, gutting the cat.
Inexpensive mods are next best. The 160* thermostat, K&N filter, maybe a set of drag radials (my 235 BFG DR's work well and were about $370 drive out at Discount Tire). The DR's don't last long even if you don't spin them much. Get a hotwire kit for the fuel pump - I think those run about $100 or so. I was lucky - mine already had one.
Depending on your chip and it's adjustability with a ScanMaster, I would bet this would knock off a second from your ET, even with just a fair tune.
A few dollars for the t-stat, $50 for the K&N, $370 for the DR's, $100 for the hotwire, $200 for the SM = $725. In dollars per ET reduction, this might be the single most economical power-related expenditure you encounter during your TB experience, except maybe alky injection. However, all of these are necessary and good insurance items to take with you throughout the life of the car.
I, too, am a noob to these cars.
If you already have a new / modern chip, you're headed in the right direction. Depending on what kind it is (please let us know), you may be able to adjust fueling and spark on it. This would require a ScanMaster (about $200 new, possibly a little cheaper used on the board here).
Free mods are the best mods. Several were previously mentioned - re-routing the coolant hoses going to the throttle body, gutting the cat.
Inexpensive mods are next best. The 160* thermostat, K&N filter, maybe a set of drag radials (my 235 BFG DR's work well and were about $370 drive out at Discount Tire). The DR's don't last long even if you don't spin them much. Get a hotwire kit for the fuel pump - I think those run about $100 or so. I was lucky - mine already had one.
Depending on your chip and it's adjustability with a ScanMaster, I would bet this would knock off a second from your ET, even with just a fair tune.
A few dollars for the t-stat, $50 for the K&N, $370 for the DR's, $100 for the hotwire, $200 for the SM = $725. In dollars per ET reduction, this might be the single most economical power-related expenditure you encounter during your TB experience, except maybe alky injection. However, all of these are necessary and good insurance items to take with you throughout the life of the car.
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
An 86 GN I had was bone stock when I got it. It ran mid 14's @94-5 mph. Tired valve springs, stock everything. I did a spring cleaning, new valve springs, k&n cone filter, gutted the cat, put a race chip in and some race gas, bolted on some slicks and cranked the boost up and it ran 12.88 @108 with a 1.8ish 60', the car was a peg leg so no matter how hard I launched it was the same.
In factory trim these cars were fast for their day, not so much now. The beauty is how easy it is to make some serious power out of them.
If I were starting out with a stock TR again, I would do Alky, a small turbo (TA-49), pump with hotwire, injectors, gut the cat and run it as is. It would be a quick car and not cost a ton
I've really been debating on dialing back my car due to the lack of tracks here in CA. The problem is with the bigger cam and head work and converter the smaller turbo may not work...
In factory trim these cars were fast for their day, not so much now. The beauty is how easy it is to make some serious power out of them.
If I were starting out with a stock TR again, I would do Alky, a small turbo (TA-49), pump with hotwire, injectors, gut the cat and run it as is. It would be a quick car and not cost a ton
I've really been debating on dialing back my car due to the lack of tracks here in CA. The problem is with the bigger cam and head work and converter the smaller turbo may not work...
86turboSix
Mr. BuzzCut
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2011
An 86 GN I had was bone stock when I got it. It ran mid 14's @94-5 mph. Tired valve springs, stock everything. I did a spring cleaning, new valve springs, k&n cone filter, gutted the cat, put a race chip in and some race gas, bolted on some slicks and cranked the boost up and it ran 12.88 @108 with a 1.8ish 60', the car was a peg leg so no matter how hard I launched it was the same.
In factory trim these cars were fast for their day, not so much now. The beauty is how easy it is to make some serious power out of them.
If I were starting out with a stock TR again, I would do Alky, a small turbo (TA-49), pump with hotwire, injectors, gut the cat and run it as is. It would be a quick car and not cost a ton
I've really been debating on dialing back my car due to the lack of tracks here in CA. The problem is with the bigger cam and head work and converter the smaller turbo may not work...
You sir, have just laid out the framework for what I want to do with my DD '86 and confidence I needed to go with a TA-49 over a rebuilt stock turbo.
That is all.
turboc87gn
Darkside in Detroit
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2008
Do what i do keep it stockish and do the fun and reliability upgrades first...In the meantime set a reasonable goal and accumuulate the parts as you can....Once you get all the parts theeen change one thing at a time...Research is free!!! try to spend ur $ once buy good parts not acme shortcut junk... Dont mod till you know what you are doing and have the cash to do it right....I bought my car with 106,ooo miles for $8000 from a friend it had a k&n cone and no cat thats it.. I mixed in some 110 octane took it to the track and ran a string of 14.50s 2.1 and 2.3 60fts , then iced the intercooler, removed a headlight, did a good burnout,and wheel hopped my way to a 14.22 with a 1.9 60 ft on street tires....youll be suprised how many races esp street fun you can win stock on a holeshot...Youll win some youll lose some resist the temptation to raise the boost till you are ready...
I always mixed in race gas and left the boost alone(make sure you gut or remove the cat if you do this) i didnt and still dont have a chip installed....I got a new one from turbo tweak for my new e85 combo sitting in the box.....Ive had a lot of fun over the years and minimal issues ....mine were 90% old crusty parts wearing out.....
My car had a 3 year down spell but only cause my powermaster went bad and just had a kid and didnt have an extra 600$ for another one....I then discovered the hydroboost upgrade that was waay better and cheaper esp if you DIY.....Unfortunately i discovered my 23 year old brakes and frontend were in horrible shape so rebuilt front end and SSBC brake upgrade...Also added hurst line loc... Then i added 17" wheels and M/T dragradials...I bought an aluminum maf and up pipe made my own cold air setup with 3" exhaust tubing to a 4" k&n down by the fender behind the bumper ...This made a huge difference in loudness of the turbo its loud and clear and awesome!!!!!! I just recently added my gauges and scanmaster, and impala ss alternator...
I had my stock turbo fall apart,the nut came off the impeller and got lost,the turbine wheel and shaft went down the dp and got stuck in a muffler somwhere, I added another turbo(too big) cause it was a good deal... and a 3"dp with a borla race muffler welded on the end..i drove it that way open dp all last summer ...I found my lost nut it was wedged in the maf and came loose and ground the impeller off of my new used turbo and filled my intercooler with metal shavings It was my own fault tho and it was the end of the summer so i cleaned out the intercooler luckily it didnt make its way up the up pipe into the motor....so im buying another turbo in a week or so and adding a few more items for this year..
Whichever route you take be smart about it and have fun with your car!!!! Good luck!!!
I always mixed in race gas and left the boost alone(make sure you gut or remove the cat if you do this) i didnt and still dont have a chip installed....I got a new one from turbo tweak for my new e85 combo sitting in the box.....Ive had a lot of fun over the years and minimal issues ....mine were 90% old crusty parts wearing out.....
My car had a 3 year down spell but only cause my powermaster went bad and just had a kid and didnt have an extra 600$ for another one....I then discovered the hydroboost upgrade that was waay better and cheaper esp if you DIY.....Unfortunately i discovered my 23 year old brakes and frontend were in horrible shape
so rebuilt front end and SSBC brake upgrade...Also added hurst line loc... Then i added 17" wheels and M/T dragradials...I bought an aluminum maf and up pipe made my own cold air setup with 3" exhaust tubing to a 4" k&n down by the fender behind the bumper ...This made a huge difference in loudness of the turbo its loud and clear and awesome!!!!!! I just recently added my gauges and scanmaster, and impala ss alternator...I had my stock turbo fall apart,the nut came off the impeller and got lost,the turbine wheel and shaft went down the dp and got stuck in a muffler somwhere, I added another turbo(too big) cause it was a good deal... and a 3"dp with a borla race muffler welded on the end..i drove it that way open dp all last summer ...I found my lost nut it was wedged in the maf and came loose and ground the impeller off of my new used turbo and filled my intercooler with metal shavings
It was my own fault tho and it was the end of the summer so i cleaned out the intercooler luckily it didnt make its way up the up pipe into the motor....so im buying another turbo in a week or so and adding a few more items for this year..Whichever route you take be smart about it and have fun with your car!!!! Good luck!!!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
As a disclaimer I would also say make sure to do a shift kit in the transmission and you may want a little looser converter (like the old redstripe restalled stock converter).
If your stock turbo is still in good shape I would do everything else first. You might put the alky on, crank up the stock turbo and be happy.
The car in my signature used to have the TA-49/Blue Top Injectors/Red Stripe converter combo on it and it was fun to drive. We drove it from So-Cal to the GS Nats in Kentucky and back with that combo, it did great.
HelloBozos
A Bozo in Buick
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2011
Some GN's/T-type's came Without Posi., Make sure both your wheels burn an not just one,The reason for many upper 14 sec stock GN's
TurboTnZ06
Go on red!
- Joined
- May 7, 2002
Both my T and GN when stock I ran 14.2 - 14.4 as their best at at 97 mph. I end up running 13.3 through the stock airbox on pump gas in my GN with a hotwired Reds XP pump, TT, chip, FP reg, and injectors and slicks. 13.0 with no air filter at 104 on pump gas 3700# otherwise stock GN. One time I cranked the boost to 25, added timing, 110 octane and did a 10psi launch off the parking brake and got a 1.67 ft 60 foot on the stock GN, I let out of the run cuz I got skeered when the boost was higher than I expected. Better safe than sorry since I was first inducted in the 'drove-over-the-crankshaft' club in April 2001.
richy rich
Richy Rich
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2003
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
I think it was about 2600 rpm. We had one in the car in my signature when it had a TA-49, it was a good combo. There are better converters out there but back then for the price you couldn't beat it.
Hands down my car was the most fun way back in 1999 when I first got it with 16,800 miles on it. All stock except adj wastergate, bluetop inj, hotwire and pump, and a TH downpipe, and a chip. Car was quick and relaible and fun. I wanted more and was stupid and had some local buick idiots put on a set of champ heads, a cam, bigger turbo, etc. and oh while they were in there they thought they would do me the favor of freshening up the bottom end. The bottom end wiped out twice had to go to another builder and now the damn thing still smokes at idle, already took the heads back off and had the guides done again, still smokes....valve guide seals won't stay down maybe thats it??? who knows absolutely maddening, also did a trans to handle the new power from a guy on this board. It slips when full throttle unless my cable is tightened all to hell, the fun now just never stops, oh yeah with a wife and kid the money is never there to just throw at it, oh yeah somewhere along there I did a maf pro which is actually a good system unless some a-hole on here sells you a modded for low imp inj ecm that is bad, lots of fun figuring that out too. Want to hang out with me Bryan we got a lot in common lol
alaskaturbo
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2004
Hi to all members,
I have enjoyed reading the members input. Some really hard luck expensive stories. Myself I am very lucky to have a son that works on my car and is very good at tuning the cars we are talking about. He owns at the present time 4-5 Grand Nationals that are from stock to bad ass. I say 4-5 as he buys and sells then quite rapidly and hard to keep up with him and his cars. Some my son has is much faster than the 87 we4 that I am going to talk about. When I got the opportunity to buy a We4 87 model I did so. It had 21,000 miles on it. All that had been done to it was a shift kit. We did changes to it one at a time with long periods of time in between. Never got radical crazy with it as I wanted to have it dependable and it is. First off we went with the TA49 and it has worked very very well for me. New exhaust (2.5 inch ) and down pipe. Oh when we did the TA49 we did new injectors also. New fuel pump. The car when I bought it had a very nice front bumper with fresh air intake. Later on we added an Alky system and a good chip. Plus a larger neck into the intercooler. I will keep this short and probably overlooked a few things but what I am saying is we never got crazy with it. I drove it 400 miles to a drag strip at Palmer Alaska and back as it is the closest one to our home. The car ran from 12.3 to 11.95 at 110 and some a little more than 110. I know there are faster Buicks out there and that is fine. I like mine where it is presently at and does not give me problems. We have never had this engine apart and it presently has 31,000 plus miles on it. I feel the car has treated me so well due to great tuning and doing changes slowly at least for us do it yourself types like so many of us are. I truly enjoy this 87 turbo Buick and I feel Buick made a big mistake when they quit making this model years ago. Some one at the Buick Headquarters made a bad call. I know some of you will think perhaps I am making this better than it was but all is true. I have owned this 87 Buick now for 12 years. So far so good. Good luck to all Buick Turbo members with there projects. One last item we installed a 2800 stall converter and it made a difference in performance.
Bob
I have enjoyed reading the members input. Some really hard luck expensive stories. Myself I am very lucky to have a son that works on my car and is very good at tuning the cars we are talking about. He owns at the present time 4-5 Grand Nationals that are from stock to bad ass. I say 4-5 as he buys and sells then quite rapidly and hard to keep up with him and his cars. Some my son has is much faster than the 87 we4 that I am going to talk about. When I got the opportunity to buy a We4 87 model I did so. It had 21,000 miles on it. All that had been done to it was a shift kit. We did changes to it one at a time with long periods of time in between. Never got radical crazy with it as I wanted to have it dependable and it is. First off we went with the TA49 and it has worked very very well for me. New exhaust (2.5 inch ) and down pipe. Oh when we did the TA49 we did new injectors also. New fuel pump. The car when I bought it had a very nice front bumper with fresh air intake. Later on we added an Alky system and a good chip. Plus a larger neck into the intercooler. I will keep this short and probably overlooked a few things but what I am saying is we never got crazy with it. I drove it 400 miles to a drag strip at Palmer Alaska and back as it is the closest one to our home. The car ran from 12.3 to 11.95 at 110 and some a little more than 110. I know there are faster Buicks out there and that is fine. I like mine where it is presently at and does not give me problems. We have never had this engine apart and it presently has 31,000 plus miles on it. I feel the car has treated me so well due to great tuning and doing changes slowly at least for us do it yourself types like so many of us are. I truly enjoy this 87 turbo Buick and I feel Buick made a big mistake when they quit making this model years ago. Some one at the Buick Headquarters made a bad call. I know some of you will think perhaps I am making this better than it was but all is true. I have owned this 87 Buick now for 12 years. So far so good. Good luck to all Buick Turbo members with there projects. One last item we installed a 2800 stall converter and it made a difference in performance.
Bob
