Ahhh, stranded at school??

Browndog

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
On my way to school this morning, actually a work placement, my '87 T starting sputtering under acceleration. It's bucking, hesitating, and sputtering like crazy. It'a also running pig rich. When I started it again at lunch time the car would barely idle. I tried tapping the MAF and that made it worse but the tapping stopped having an effect after I went for a short drive. I also tried disconnecting the MAF but that just made it worse. Everything else seemed fine (IAC, TPS, etc.) except for the .920 O2 reading at idle. The MAF readings also seemed to be a bit wacky.

The car had the "spring cleaning" done in August with all new AC Delco parts. I did not do the fuel filter though.

Any thoughts??
 
I'm also getting codes 33 and 34. I'm sure one or both is related to me unplugging the MAF.
 
Browndog said:
I'm also getting codes 33 and 34. I'm sure one or both is related to me unplugging the MAF.

You're probably correct about the codes and unplugging the MAF. Unplug the orange wire near the battery to reset the ECM, then check for codes again. Does the 02 reading go up and down? At idle it should fluxuate as the ECM uses 02 volts to correct for rich and lean. The health of your 0-2 sensor may be suspect.

The popping and hesitation you describe can be caused by spark or fuel issues....You'll have to go through and check each of the system components if the codes don't point you in the right direction....It happens to the best of TR's :)

If you have a code 33-34 or 44-45 after resetting the ECM, the MALF info is below (since you're at work, you may not have this stuff at your fingertips).

lee

Thanks to Turbolink for the list below.

CODE 33

Trouble Code 33 indicates that the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor is reporting more air is entering the engine than makes sense based on RPM and TPS. The MAF sensor produces a frequency output; around 30 Hz at idle to 150 Hz under acceleration. The frequency varies proportionally to airflow. The ECM monitors the frequency and thus determines airflow into the engine. Typical idle MAF is 5 to 7 grams per second.

The conditions for setting this code are:

no Code 21 or 22 (TPS Error) present, and
the air flow reported is > 40 grams per second, and
TPS indicates < 10% throttle position, and
the engine speed is 1400 RPM or less, and
the above conditions exist for over 5 seconds.



Typical causes for this code include:

1) Faulty MAF-to-ECM connection
2) Exceedingly noisy spark plug wires
3) Poor routing of MAF harness (i.e. near coil packs)
4) Maladjusted TPS sensor
5) Defective MAF sensor
6) Defective ECM


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CODE 34

Trouble Code 34 indicates that the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor is reporting less air is entering the engine than makes sense based on RPM and TPS. The MAF sensor produces a frequency output; around 30 Hz at idle to 150 Hz under acceleration. The frequency varies proportionally to airflow. The ECM monitors the frequency and thus determines airflow into the engine. Typical idle MAF is 5 to 7 grams per second.

The conditions for setting this code are:

no Code 21 or 22 (TPS Error) present, and
the air flow reported is < 4 grams per second, and
TPS indicates 10% or more throttle position, and
the engine speed is 1800 RPM or higher, and
the above conditions exist for over 5 seconds.



Typical causes for this code include:

1) Faulty air ducting to or from MAF sensor
2) Faulty ECM-to-MAF connections
3) Poor routing of MAF harness (i.e. near coil packs)
4) Maladjusted TPS sensor
5) Defective MAF sensor
6) Defective ECM
----------_--

CODE 44

Trouble Code 44 indicates that the O2 sensor is showing a persistently high exhaust oxygen content (lean), despite the efforts of the ECM to increase injector on-time (thus increasing fuel delivered). Integrator and BLM numbers may indicate > 128 by a substantial margin.

The conditions for setting this code are:

no Code 33 or Code 34 (MAF Error) present, and
the O2 sensor voltage remains below 250 mVolts, and
the ECM is in Closed Loop control, and
the above conditions exist for more than 50 seconds.



Typical causes for this code include:

1) O2 sensor defective or lead shorted
2) Lean injectors (dirty or blocked)
3) Water in fuel
4) Exhaust leaks upstream of O2 sensor
5) Fuel pressure or volume too low
6) MAF sensor reading lower airflow than is actually present
7) Vacuum leaks
8) Incorrect or poorly calibrated PROM


Return to Chart


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CODE 45

Trouble Code 45 indicates that the O2 sensor is showing a persistently low exhaust oxygen content (rich), despite the efforts of the ECM to decrease injector on-time (thus decreasing fuel delivered). Integrator and BLM numbers may indicate < 128 by a substantial margin.

The conditions for setting this code are:

no Code 34 or Code 35 (MAF error) present, and
the O2 sensor voltage remains above 752 mV, and
the ECM is in Closed Loop control, and
throttle position is < 2 percent or > 20 percent, and
the above conditions exist for more than 20 seconds.

Typical causes for this code include:

1) O2 sensor defective or contaminated (if incorrect RTV sealant or too much RTV is used, this may happen)
2) Leaking fuel injectors
3) Fuel pressure too high
4) EMI interference from poor plug wires
5) Evaporative Emission system defect
6) TPS and/or EGR problem
7) MAF sensor reading higher airflow than is actually present
 
Great, thanks. I'll unplug the orange wire before I leave.

Will these things trip a "soft" code without lighting the CEL up?
 
I also wanted to ad that the car starts normally every time. It spins and then fires right up.
 
The codes did not return after resetting the ECM.

My MAF values were ALL over the place on the way home. With the cruise set at 55mph they'd jump from 27 to 168 to 4 to 255..........you get the idea. I went through half a tank of gas in 50 miles :eek:
 
Browndog said:
The codes did not return after resetting the ECM.

My MAF values were ALL over the place on the way home. With the cruise set at 55mph they'd jump from 27 to 168 to 4 to 255..........you get the idea. I went through half a tank of gas in 50 miles :eek:

What did the o2's read during that same condition?
 
They'd spend a little time at .960'ish to .850'ish and then switch to .400'ish to .650'ish. This chip has lean cruise if that is relevant.
 
Browndog said:
My MAF values were ALL over the place on the way home. With the cruise set at 55mph they'd jump from 27 to 168 to 4 to 255..........you get the idea. I went through half a tank of gas in 50 miles :eek:
That is not right. The MAF values should be fairly stable at the same speed, engine RPM and boost. You need to find someone local with a known good MAF to try.
 
I just pulled the up-pipe and MAF pipe off of the car. Both the throttle body and turbo were dripping with fuel. I guess i'll be doing an early oil change.
 
:eek: ahhhhh, that could not be right. How did the fuel go backwards?? Do you have an aky kit, or a 7th injector? That is a seriously rich burn.
 
Reversion.

It's either from running so rich or my cam sensor went bad and screwed up the injector timing.
 
Engine wouldn't start with a bad cam sensor. If you want to eliminate it at the cause, unplug it once the engine has started.

I'm betting on MAF based on your description of the problem. Where are you located?

DR
 
Browndog said:
I just pulled the up-pipe and MAF pipe off of the car. Both the throttle body and turbo were dripping with fuel. I guess i'll be doing an early oil change.

turbo2nr said:
:eek: ahhhhh, that could not be right. How did the fuel go backwards?? Do you have an aky kit, or a 7th injector? That is a seriously rich burn.
When I read that you had fuel in places on top of the engine where you should not have fuel, the most obvious source would be fuel spraying from a leak....Fuel rail, fuel lines....Who knows. I wouldn't drive any where like that. And, keep a fire extinguisher handy.
 
turbodave231 said:
Engine wouldn't start with a bad cam sensor. If you want to eliminate it at the cause, unplug it once the engine has started.

I'm betting on MAF based on your description of the problem. Where are you located?

DR

I'm in Ontario, Canada.
 
Lee_Burough said:
When I read that you had fuel in places on top of the engine where you should not have fuel, the most obvious source would be fuel spraying from a leak....Fuel rail, fuel lines....Who knows. I wouldn't drive any where like that. And, keep a fire extinguisher handy.

I had fuel dripping from the turbo inlet and from inside the throttle body. The exterior of the engine isn't covered in gas.

Unfortunately, i've had this happen before on other EFI cars.

When I checked the MAF off of the car I noticed that the board was loose inside the housing. It moves from side to side.

Guys, thanks for all the help. Hopefully I can get the problem cleared up and stop wasting board space with this crap.
 
:eek:
Browndog said:
I had fuel dripping from the turbo inlet and from inside the throttle body. The exterior of the engine isn't covered in gas.

Unfortunately, i've had this happen before on other EFI cars.

(Making a mental note to never let you touch my cars) :D
 
turbo2nr said:
:eek:
Browndog said:
I had fuel dripping from the turbo inlet and from inside the throttle body. The exterior of the engine isn't covered in gas.

Unfortunately, i've had this happen before on other EFI cars.

(Making a mental note to never let you touch my cars) :D

LOL, it happened in my old GTA with a very poorly done chip and in my Z28 with the startup program in the DFI.
 
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