85 gn project rebuild advice

[ttcharger]

hi guys i picked up a 85 gn (we2) about a month ago which had been parked for 5 years
the body is in descent condition with some small rust on the door corner and driv quarter as well as some slight damage to the same
the interior is all original and in nice shape so not much to do other than gauges and cleanup
now the engine is all stock but when it was running its smoked profusely out of the rusty exhaust, made squeaking, grinding, clattering noises from within and the tranny slipped badly,
i picked up a used 87 turbo and installed and that cured to smoking caused by the original badly worn turbo,
pulled the motor out this weekend and found 3 collapsed lifters, 2 head gaskets showing blow by, and 4 badly spun bearings along with alot of metal shavings in the pan,
needless to say i'm in for a rebuild which is where the advice is gonna come in handy
the car had fairly low miles and the piston bores look good so far but if the machine shop says i need to bore then am i best to go forged or hyper pistons?
any special bearings and rings to consider?
i will clean up the oil and water holes on the block and port the heads/intake myself, is there a link to the best secrets for this motor? i hear alot of people saying it cant be treated like a regular motor and need tight clearances
i have a spare 1983 carbed gn motor i picked up for parts is the crank the same if my original cant be saved?
are the cometic gaskets the best choice? thats what i used when i turboed my charger .
i have a intake from an 87 on the way as well as 60lb injectors, 87 ecm, double roller chain, and plan on alky injection as well as adjustable fuel reg, bov, larger tb and maf, translator, tt chip, cold air intake and all the usual gauges, pypes exhaust
sorry for the long first post but i'm exited to get it done
thanks jason

 

[Heisenberg]

You sure you might not consider a LC2 upgrade?
Unless you were wanting to stay bone stock - and keep the budget to a dull roar.

Pick up on the scrounge the ECM, harness, various brackets, intake stuff, and misc front air dam pieces.
Trans? Not exactly clear on that - BRQ? or need to get your trans BRF retro'd?
DS Fender liner.
If you have a mid-year or later model 85, you may already have the 109 block.
You mentioned it was pulled - so take a peek
The list of needs is on a couple of threads here
It's sort of an easy list to go down and check off - one piece at a time.

It's worth a thought.
You can drop a lot of money in a Hot air rebuild - and taking nothing away from the hot air cars - it will still be a hot air car.
Of course, converting to LC2 isn't exactly cheap I know.
Another idea is to find yourself a decent, known good LC2 or even HA engine for ok money - say $1500-$2000, then drop it in and run for a while.
If you go LC2; since you need an IC, you could then go with a reasonably priced FMIC, you could skip all the IC bracketry, the IC shrouds, the air dam stuff etc
You might have the foundation in your 85 motor to convert to LC2 at your leisure then.

Now would be the time to consider going LC2 while you have the engine bay available.
Ain't nothing wrong with an 85 with an LC2 powerplant - value wise.
Most lay people wouldn't know by looking - the difference between the 85 & 86 - since except for the engine (& wheels I know) - there aren't many.
I converted my 84 and love it that way. Best of both worlds. The custom interior of the 84, and so much easier to work on.

 

[ttcharger]

im not interested in staying stock and im not afraid to fabricate, i will be saving any original parts for if i eventually sell it, i think i can make hotair motor work for me
im looking for a solid low 13 second(for now) driver with occasional track time

 

[charlief1]

I'm a little confused here. The 86-87 turbo won't mount on an 84-85 intake without a lot of modification. As far as the rest I'd suggest that you start doing some searching and reading of what's on the board. There's just about any answer on here for just about any question asked.

 

[Heisenberg]

im not interested in staying stock and im not afraid to fabricate, i will be saving any original parts for if i eventually sell it, i think i can make hotair motor work for me
im looking for a solid low 13 second(for now) driver with occasional track time

Then keep things simple.
If you're good with the HA , (and it's more than fine for the average enthusiast) then...
Just do a straight rebuild you HA motor and if you feel the need for a turbo improvement, there are always plenty of used HA parts and HA turbos on the board.

I'm with Charlie on the turbo mounting thing - but far, far fro man expert of IC to HA interchanges

You said:
i picked up a used 87 turbo and installed and that cured to smoking caused by the original badly worn turbo,

Again - didn't know you could - but ok.

pulled the motor out this weekend and found 3 collapsed lifters, 2 head gaskets showing blow by, and 4 badly spun bearings along with alot of metal shavings in the pan,
So we shall see what the crank looks like - Nick or others on here are the motor experts.

needless to say i'm in for a rebuild which is where the advice is gonna come in handy

Obviously - right.

the car had fairly low miles and the piston bores look good so far but if the machine shop says i need to bore then am i best to go forged or hyper pistons?

"Fairly" low miles - on an 1985 Turbo car with a pan full of shavings.
I'm not seeing that picture.
Can't answer specifically your "which LM9 piston is best" question - although I can tell you the most common pistons builders use in LC2
Ask an LM9 HA expert- I'm sure one will come along shortly to tell you.
But even if you didn't bore it - would you not want to replace your pistons?
Although, I've seen several guys re-use them so I suppose.
Yours don't sound like good candidates though.

any special bearings and rings to consider?

Again - see above - HA LM9 expert
That's basically one question - Pistons, Rings and bearings
But I suggest to not go crazy with exotic upgrades - just rebuild your engine for decent performance using decent quality pieces.
It doesn't have to top fuel exotic when you'll be happy with 13.0 seconds.

i will clean up the oil and water holes on the block and port the heads/intake myself, is there a link to the best secrets for this motor?

Yes - there is a link to the secrets of the LM9 motor - but it's a secret.

Nope - no such luck kid.
Most of the secrets reside in 50+ year old guys' heads around here.
And buried in most of the forum posts.
Get to reading.

i hear alot of people saying it cant be treated like a regular motor and need tight clearances

Well, it isn't a SBC that's for sure.
But it isn't a Rocketdyne F1 Saturn IV engine either.
There are certain things that your average SBC rebuilder will overlook on Buick turbo motors.
If you are doing all this work yourself - be prepared to learn and possibly the hard (expensive) way.

i have a spare 1983 carbed gn motor i picked up for parts is the crank the same if my original cant be saved?

Unless I am mistaken the N.A 1983 - 3.8L does not use the Turbo Crank.
Can you use the non-turbo crank?- yes - some have.
Maybe
But why would you - other than the obvious answer = $$$$

are the cometic gaskets the best choice? thats what i used when i turboed my charger .
On the LM9? Have no idea. Ask a LM9 expert.
But - Yep they're good on our LC2 motors - and there are plenty of guys who use other stlyes and brands.
What's the best pizza?
Get my idea?


i have a intake from an 87 on the way as well as 60lb injectors, 87 ecm, double roller chain, and plan on alky injection as well as adjustable fuel reg, bov, larger tb and maf, translator, tt chip, cold air intake and all the usual gauges, pypes exhaust

Yeah yeah.
I know - go fast parts.
Get your short (long) block rebuilt and run it as close to stock until you break it in and get things sorted out.
Don't go starting to thrash a freshly rebuilt engine right away.
And the closer you stay to stock, the easier debug will be.
Some people do fine right out of the gate with all their upgrades at one time.
Me - I prefer to go in stages.
And go easy on that new motor - or you'll be right back on here asking "what happened to my freshly rebuilt engine?'

Your 87 Intake w/ 60 lb injectors is "on the way"...(why?), 87 ECM, TT chip, MAF translator, ...
I don't know where you are going with all that.
I thought you were staying HA LM9?
If so - how much for the box of parts?

It sounds like you have a box full of LC2 parts - some "on the way" - which son - takes me right back to my original post
What's it going to be - HA LM9 or IC LC2?
You can't breed a dog with a cat.
Well, I can't.

and plan on alky injection as well as adjustable fuel reg, bov, larger tb and maf, translator, tt chip, cold air intake and all the usual gauges, pypes exhaust

Super cool.
Let's compare wish lists.
Mine also includes:
Wide mouth FMIC
Upper & Lower Tubular Control arms
Larger front disks
Baer Rear disks
New Rear control arms
Rear end girdle
Double pumper FP
New rear anti sway bar
Upgraded drive shaft
An even larger turbo
An ever larger set of injectors
A 70mm TB
A set of aluminum GN1 heads
Oh - and a parachute

The point is - this stuff gets crazy in a hurry. ($$$)
Rebuild your motor and get it running decently so you can ride.
Because the next thing you'll find out is your trans is slipping (Not trying to jinx you at all!)
Just tryin' to help you keep it real.

I've attached a picture that may help with the engine smoking part.

 

[RUDE DOG]

Crankshaft is the same.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[ttcharger]

thanks for the taking the time to reply to my whole post
i guess i should have gone into more detail with my plans
1. the 1983 motor is a carbed turbo gn motor complete with headers but minus the turbo.
2. low miles being 40,000 so the pistons and bores look pretty good with little wear
3. i have an front mount intercooler on way but plan on mounting turbo in original location just reclocking and fabing all the tubing, even if i dont use the ic i want to mount the tb after the turbo and use the more efficient manifold along with a bov(highly debated i know) and alcohol injectorion.
4. i mounted the 87 turbo by reclocking and slightly modding the mounting bracket then made an adapter to fit in the manifold and mounted tb on an angle,(this was just to run the motor to see if it would cure the smoking which is when i discovered all the other problems lol)
i plan on upgrading to a te44 or pt44 cant remember the exact but a local gn guys has one for sale
5. the shavings in the pan is all bearing they are thin like paper and must have been spinning for a little while (the history of the car isnt known but i do know the son probably beat on it in its last few trips)
6. i have been reading for hours weekly here and gnttype.org
7. my planned part list are as follows: upgraded fuel pump and hotwire kit, te44 turbo, 60lb inj, adjust fpr, 87 intake, larger tb and maf (probably from our spare 97 caddy northstar) cold air intake(home fabbed), alcohol inj, fmic(maybe), 87 ecm, tt chip, maybe sd2 later, wideband, msd wires, 87 coil and ignition, cometic head gaskets, comp cam 204/204, lt1 springs, double roller chain, f-body rad and twin fans, ported elbow and 2 1/2' downpipe, pypes 2 1/2" cat back with race pro mufflers and gutted cat(to pass visual emmision test), 16" modular wheels with 255's, bigger front brakes and disk rear, transgo shift kit, rear control arms, full paint job when its running (black)
if anyone can suggest a part change or a specific brand for something i would love the feedback, i prefer to build it once
i know it takes tuning and i know not to lean on it to hard after rebuild,

this is my new daily home lol
thanks jason