dont even now where to begin i guess the first question is what will have the best street manners and run 12 or 11. Next what kind of work would be involved in making this swap it has a 229 in it right now so i think that the mounts are the same? any suggestions on internals or bolt on would help thanks
84 monte to 231 turbo
- Thread starter Ezmonte
- Start date
sawmillman
Make logs into lumber
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2007
I'm in this process right now make sure to buy a complete parts car lots of small stuff needed don't need to buy caspers harness stock one works good.
I just dropped an 87 GN engine and trans into an 85 Monte SS about 4 months ago. If you have any questions you can drop me an email.
Like he said, just use the stock GN harness... caspers is REALLY expensive, so you could buy a few GN ones for that price.
P.S. I didnt have a parts car... I bought a complete motor, and anything else I needed I just posted in the wanted section on these boards and you will find what you need.
But a parts car is probably easier, provided everything is still good.
Like he said, just use the stock GN harness... caspers is REALLY expensive, so you could buy a few GN ones for that price.
P.S. I didnt have a parts car... I bought a complete motor, and anything else I needed I just posted in the wanted section on these boards and you will find what you need.
But a parts car is probably easier, provided everything is still good.
sawmillman
Make logs into lumber
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2007
Lisen to this guy he knows his s##t.His last Email to me saved me $$$$$ and time on the wiring.I be picking his brain later.
:biggrin: :biggrin:I did this swap 6 years ago and didnt use a parts car. It was a VERY expensive lesson as you will not know what you have until you take it apart and/or try to run it. Atleast if you buy a parts car you might find one that runs and moves where as if you buy a used engine here and a used trans there you will never know what you have and I NEVER take anyone's word.
So plan on engine rebuild, trans rebuild and possibly opening the rear too if you plan on swapping the 8.5 10 bolt in.
My swap was over $10k and that was using a stock GM harness, rebuilding the engine, trans and rear as well as replacing assorted sensors that were bad, tune up parts, radiator, hoses, etc. You will be very surprised how many little parts are involved in these turbo drive trains and how fast the parts add up.
My standards are very high and I am very anal when it comes to details where as some people would be happy with driving around with junk.
I'll take some pictures of my "junk" for you...
[/ATTACH]
As you can see, my motor is junk just as the above @ss had described.
Came freshly rebuilt and looks BRAND NEW and I paid $2500 for it.
With paperwork.
As far as a trans went, I could have gotten a newly built STOCK unit for $750, again, with but knew I was going to throw some more power to it later so had a 10 sec capable billet trans made for me. That, with the 9.5" 3200 stall lockup converter BRAND NEW was $2100.
Then I got a PERFECT front mount intercooler for $400 with all piping and couplers and clamps.
All in all I probably with EVERYTHING down to every last nut, bolt, and washer have $5500-6000 in it. And thats with the BUILT trans... if I went with the stocker, I would have saved another $1300, putting my total around $4200-4700!!
6 years ago, this site probably didnt exist, and if it did, it didnt have hardly any knowledgeable helpful people on it, compare to NOW. And your methods of obtaining this sort of stuff was nearly IMPOSSIBLE.
Running around junkyards and talking to morons that had them advertised in the paper. Things have CHANGED.
Done with my rant.
ANYWAY... as mentioned, I can help you out. Email me with questions.
Dont listen to these guys that tell you to go buy a GN unless you really prefer a GN over a monte.
A nice one that isnt "junk" will cost you $12K-$15K all day long.
[/ATTACH]As you can see, my motor is junk just as the above @ss had described.
Came freshly rebuilt and looks BRAND NEW and I paid $2500 for it.
With paperwork.
As far as a trans went, I could have gotten a newly built STOCK unit for $750, again, with but knew I was going to throw some more power to it later so had a 10 sec capable billet trans made for me. That, with the 9.5" 3200 stall lockup converter BRAND NEW was $2100.
Then I got a PERFECT front mount intercooler for $400 with all piping and couplers and clamps.
All in all I probably with EVERYTHING down to every last nut, bolt, and washer have $5500-6000 in it. And thats with the BUILT trans... if I went with the stocker, I would have saved another $1300, putting my total around $4200-4700!!
6 years ago, this site probably didnt exist, and if it did, it didnt have hardly any knowledgeable helpful people on it, compare to NOW. And your methods of obtaining this sort of stuff was nearly IMPOSSIBLE.
Running around junkyards and talking to morons that had them advertised in the paper. Things have CHANGED.
Done with my rant.
ANYWAY... as mentioned, I can help you out. Email me with questions.
Dont listen to these guys that tell you to go buy a GN unless you really prefer a GN over a monte.
A nice one that isnt "junk" will cost you $12K-$15K all day long.
Attachments
Btw, I never said to buy a GN over a Monte, all I stated was that it would make life SOOOOO much easier to buy a running parts car that he could remove parts from and have as a working model to see where things are supposed to go rather than trying to wing it or find out part of the way through that he is missing items. When I did mine I also had my 87 GN so that I was able to see what was needed and where things went.
Off my soap box. I am done. :biggrin:
Turbo1dr
9 Sec Wanna-Be
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Actually 6 years ago you could get a cheap wrecked GN or T. Today you can't get a wrecked one for less than $3000 it seems. I was also on this site early in the years and have offered advice to MANY people when they asked "what would you do" and "how would it make it easier". IMO, the easiest way but more time consuming is to have a complete donor car to rob all the needed parts from. I made the conversion in my Malibu back in 1997. I bought a complete wrecked (in the rear) GN for $1400. I used everything I could right down to the power master, fuel lines and complete wiring harness from the GN. I'm glad I did because I hate hacked up, spliced together wire harnesses that you can't use a wiring diagram to diagnose if a problem should occur. It's MUCH better to buy a complete car to do the swap IMO.
I just went off on a rant because you QUOTED me and then said you dont drive around junk.
So I had to show you my "junk" because that was some ignorant sh!t to say without knowing what I had and what I paid.
I didnt cut corners either, and I got the worlds greatest deals on everything according to you, but I wonder how I got so lucky? I am nobody special.. I didnt even know anybody with a turbo buick except 1 friend before I started this project and we havent spoke in years until now. So he didnt help.
I just hate how people try and discourage people from doing a swap, and if you dont think you were, re read your post...
I cant TELL you how many people shot down my idea on these boards about doing the swap because they said it woulnt be worth it, It would cost a fortune, you need a donor car.
Talk about parting together "junk" ? Buying 1 car, for EVERYTHING you need in a swap is STUPID. Because that car will NOT have everything good on it.
Unless you buy something that isnt a parts or donor car... but a driver capable car.
I think I got MUCH BETTER parts and a much better car by finding what I needed seperately. Matter of fact, that is how I got such great deals.
Looking and talking. Getting the facts.
Monte Carlos and GN are VERY close cars, the swap is easy as hell.
I am no mechanic and I did the entire swap in 2 weeks in my buddies garage with only this site and a couple of people i met on this site for some needed information.
It has wiring diagrams, pictures (of EVERYTHING)
So buy saying getting a donor car is the way to go, I think you are making him spend more money... because half the cr@p on the donor car will be garbage.
And monte carlos have vacuum brakes, they are not setup like GNs.
Fuel system? Pump is $100. You can get a GN tank brand new for $100.
If you lines are good, keep em, if not, run new ones, they are not expensive, just a pain in the @ss. Crossmember? Monte one works without any modifications, so I dont know what the hell you did there.
Exhaust? You have everything but the downpipe already and then you need someone to weld up a few pipes. If you want, you can buy some Dyno Max race mufflers for $40 a peice. That is why I added $1,000 to the price at the end, because of those odds and ends, but they were NOT expensive. $100 for an aluminum fbody radiator? The hoses were like $50 for all of them.
Again, that is what I spent and I am nobody special.
Do whatever you want.. If you want to blow your money on a donor car so you have something to look at while doing it, then go ahead. Everybody is different. I bought a complete motor... with everything already on it. .
Then I HAND picked the rest of the parts, so I knew what I was getting was good. NOT JUNK..
YOUR method will get him junk to drive around.
Okay. Im done ranting. He can email me if he has questions.
I would not have even said all this sh!t, but man you really p!ssed me off!
So I had to show you my "junk" because that was some ignorant sh!t to say without knowing what I had and what I paid.
I didnt cut corners either, and I got the worlds greatest deals on everything according to you, but I wonder how I got so lucky? I am nobody special.. I didnt even know anybody with a turbo buick except 1 friend before I started this project and we havent spoke in years until now. So he didnt help.
I just hate how people try and discourage people from doing a swap, and if you dont think you were, re read your post...
I cant TELL you how many people shot down my idea on these boards about doing the swap because they said it woulnt be worth it, It would cost a fortune, you need a donor car.
Talk about parting together "junk" ? Buying 1 car, for EVERYTHING you need in a swap is STUPID. Because that car will NOT have everything good on it.
Unless you buy something that isnt a parts or donor car... but a driver capable car.
I think I got MUCH BETTER parts and a much better car by finding what I needed seperately. Matter of fact, that is how I got such great deals.
Looking and talking. Getting the facts.
Monte Carlos and GN are VERY close cars, the swap is easy as hell.
I am no mechanic and I did the entire swap in 2 weeks in my buddies garage with only this site and a couple of people i met on this site for some needed information.
It has wiring diagrams, pictures (of EVERYTHING)
So buy saying getting a donor car is the way to go, I think you are making him spend more money... because half the cr@p on the donor car will be garbage.
And monte carlos have vacuum brakes, they are not setup like GNs.
Fuel system? Pump is $100. You can get a GN tank brand new for $100.
If you lines are good, keep em, if not, run new ones, they are not expensive, just a pain in the @ss. Crossmember? Monte one works without any modifications, so I dont know what the hell you did there.
Exhaust? You have everything but the downpipe already and then you need someone to weld up a few pipes. If you want, you can buy some Dyno Max race mufflers for $40 a peice. That is why I added $1,000 to the price at the end, because of those odds and ends, but they were NOT expensive. $100 for an aluminum fbody radiator? The hoses were like $50 for all of them.
Again, that is what I spent and I am nobody special.
Do whatever you want.. If you want to blow your money on a donor car so you have something to look at while doing it, then go ahead. Everybody is different. I bought a complete motor... with everything already on it. .
Then I HAND picked the rest of the parts, so I knew what I was getting was good. NOT JUNK..
YOUR method will get him junk to drive around.
Okay. Im done ranting. He can email me if he has questions.
I would not have even said all this sh!t, but man you really p!ssed me off!
P.S.
Putting this drivetrain in my car is the absolute best thing I could have ever done. This is the way it SHOULD have been, not with that cr@ppy 305 with 180HP!
You will LOVE you car after this.
These turbo buicks and hybrids are so much fun its crazy. I would do it all again in a heart beat. Worth every penny and all the blood, sweat, and tears into it!
Take care. Good luck.
Putting this drivetrain in my car is the absolute best thing I could have ever done. This is the way it SHOULD have been, not with that cr@ppy 305 with 180HP!
You will LOVE you car after this.
These turbo buicks and hybrids are so much fun its crazy. I would do it all again in a heart beat. Worth every penny and all the blood, sweat, and tears into it!
Take care. Good luck.
First off, get you head out of your ass. Your budget prices are far off in fantasy land as is your physical self. If you got pissed off from what I said, then you probably shouldnt be taking yourself so seriously as there a lot of people in this world that you will encounter that will say far worse than what I have.
I have been doing this crap with these cars since you were running around with your diaper on. I was not trying to discourage the guy, I was trying to introduce reality. Everyone sets goals for themselves. Saying you are going to build a concourse car with a turbo drivetrain for $5k is not going to happen. No way. No how. PERIOD!
P.S. a hint for you dude. Get over yourself.
First, this is not meant to Piss any one off. Just my experience and trying to get back to helping the guy.
5k is not going to be a reasonable price to expect for the guy that has to ask what it is going to take. 5k is possible but alot will have to done by the owner (welding, fabbing, and modified). I am working on a 63 for my parents right now. We started with a 70k mile GN that had spun a bearing. I have known the owner and car for over 10 years. After tearing it down we found out that block had been decked already. We had thought it was a virgin motor. We went with a stroker kit, ta heads, and roller cam. By the time the motor was done we were 10k lighter in the pocket, could it have been done for less, yes. Basic rebuild would have been 4k. We had to fab motor mounts (you need to make sure it's level and has the proper front to rear angle) ( also verify no interferance with steering linkage, steering column and shaft, accessories, place for intercooler, exhaust(downpipe), inner fender, ac box, front crossmember, firewall, oil pan, a-arms, and more). We ended up getting a bowtie overdrive crossmember for the 200r4, no fabbing and save alot of time. Then you have to consider the rear end, will it hold up to the gn motor if not your going to spend around 2k beefing up the 10 bolt or more if you replace it with a 9in.
I decided to go with a casper harness because they could customize it for my car ( dual relays for 2 fans, longer main harness so I could put the ecm in the center console) and not to mention you don't have 20 yr old wiring with 20yr old connectors and unknown splices from previous owners. Could you imagine trying to find a short or problems with the harness after all the other major changes you made with the power train swap.
Then there is the little things like: do you need a better radiator, shifter, throttle cable, driveline, fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel lines, dash (gauges), and does the tranny need rebuilding.
Since it had a v6 already I would think the suspension, body reinforcements, and brakes are on the light side and you should consider upgrading them. It's nice to go fast but it's nicer to have a car that can handle the power and stop it when needed.
In my builds, I write down an estimate of all the parts and prices that I can think of then double it for the budget and its usually pretty close. On the 63 impala the estimate was 25k and so far we are at 40k and almost done.
I hope that helps. If your not mechanically inclined it will be quite the challange.
Just my thoughts. No put downs intented.
5k is not going to be a reasonable price to expect for the guy that has to ask what it is going to take. 5k is possible but alot will have to done by the owner (welding, fabbing, and modified). I am working on a 63 for my parents right now. We started with a 70k mile GN that had spun a bearing. I have known the owner and car for over 10 years. After tearing it down we found out that block had been decked already. We had thought it was a virgin motor. We went with a stroker kit, ta heads, and roller cam. By the time the motor was done we were 10k lighter in the pocket, could it have been done for less, yes. Basic rebuild would have been 4k. We had to fab motor mounts (you need to make sure it's level and has the proper front to rear angle) ( also verify no interferance with steering linkage, steering column and shaft, accessories, place for intercooler, exhaust(downpipe), inner fender, ac box, front crossmember, firewall, oil pan, a-arms, and more). We ended up getting a bowtie overdrive crossmember for the 200r4, no fabbing and save alot of time. Then you have to consider the rear end, will it hold up to the gn motor if not your going to spend around 2k beefing up the 10 bolt or more if you replace it with a 9in.
I decided to go with a casper harness because they could customize it for my car ( dual relays for 2 fans, longer main harness so I could put the ecm in the center console) and not to mention you don't have 20 yr old wiring with 20yr old connectors and unknown splices from previous owners. Could you imagine trying to find a short or problems with the harness after all the other major changes you made with the power train swap.
Then there is the little things like: do you need a better radiator, shifter, throttle cable, driveline, fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel lines, dash (gauges), and does the tranny need rebuilding.
Since it had a v6 already I would think the suspension, body reinforcements, and brakes are on the light side and you should consider upgrading them. It's nice to go fast but it's nicer to have a car that can handle the power and stop it when needed.
In my builds, I write down an estimate of all the parts and prices that I can think of then double it for the budget and its usually pretty close. On the 63 impala the estimate was 25k and so far we are at 40k and almost done.
I hope that helps. If your not mechanically inclined it will be quite the challange.
Just my thoughts. No put downs intented.
You will get done way faster and cheaper if you can find a wrecked or rusty 86-87 turbo regal..Whatever parts you don't use, you can sell and re-coupe your investment....The dash was the most complicated issue on my car...The monte full gauge cluster is great to keep..Just remember to keep the gauge sensors from your old motor..My car started off as a 229, than a TPI 305, than a buick turbo... The regal dash will make the install simpler...Most of the suspension, brake and cooling stuff is the same or compatable on all g-bodies...Get the motor in and running and work out the bugs later..The must haves are the complete engine with ALL sensors, TTA vacuum block for the brakes, ecu, harness with no cuts, downpipe, convertor, fuel tank with sender, and dash ..If your car has a 200 r4, than that will be fine for now...I would wait for a known good motor ..High miles is ok if taken care of..I hope you at least have a friend nearby with a running turbo regal . Where are you located ? PM me if you want my # for more questions...
Hey thanks for all the help and pissing matches, I am a Gm tech and have been to a tech school, i just never have done a v6 swap or build all my knowledge is in v8's naturally aspirated my strip car is a 67 elcamino with 383 my toy is a 85 chevy blazer and the monte is my daily driver the car is all original and was given to me by my dad who was the original owner. I gess i will be looking for a donner car and then i will go from there thanks agin
Turbo1dr
9 Sec Wanna-Be
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
WELCOME to the WONDERFUL WORLD of turbobuick.com! Pull up a chair and grab a beer...there's plenty of pissing around here!
TURBOPOWERED68
David
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
not pretty at all but it ran great for about 8 years and never ever left me aside the road.
BTW it was the best sleeper i ever had. and the AC worked great when the T-Tops didn't come off.
Good luck with your build.
and yes you will love your car after the trans plant.
BTW it was the best sleeper i ever had. and the AC worked great when the T-Tops didn't come off.
Good luck with your build.
and yes you will love your car after the trans plant.
Hello all,
I am glad to see that others have done the 231 Turbo into a Monte carlo. Of course, the MC's came with a 231 Turbo option from the factory so I knew it was possible.
As to cost, I am not sure that buying a doner car is needed. True, it may make it easier to know were things go, but when you are done you have a hull of a car and nothing to do with it. Besides a running doner car will run you 3K or more, where you can get a complete engine, rebuilt, for 2K and tranny for another 1500 (new or rebuilt). Sure you will still need heads (~750 new after port and polish) and the EFI (~750) as well as the rear end (~1200 new). But when you get all that done as well as the extra parts you will need you get basically a new drivetrain made to your specs.
Now I think you could even do better on the parts if you went to a junk yard and bought used parts and had them rebuilt. But that is just my thought.
I am considering buying a 231 to go in my 1980 MC. I want to replicate the GNX performance in my MC. I like buick regals and GNs, but my passion is the 80 MC. I have owned 5 of them over my lifetime.
I will be picking your collective brains over the next few months as I plan out my attack.
Regards
Lingam
I am glad to see that others have done the 231 Turbo into a Monte carlo. Of course, the MC's came with a 231 Turbo option from the factory so I knew it was possible.
As to cost, I am not sure that buying a doner car is needed. True, it may make it easier to know were things go, but when you are done you have a hull of a car and nothing to do with it. Besides a running doner car will run you 3K or more, where you can get a complete engine, rebuilt, for 2K and tranny for another 1500 (new or rebuilt). Sure you will still need heads (~750 new after port and polish) and the EFI (~750) as well as the rear end (~1200 new). But when you get all that done as well as the extra parts you will need you get basically a new drivetrain made to your specs.
Now I think you could even do better on the parts if you went to a junk yard and bought used parts and had them rebuilt. But that is just my thought.
I am considering buying a 231 to go in my 1980 MC. I want to replicate the GNX performance in my MC. I like buick regals and GNs, but my passion is the 80 MC. I have owned 5 of them over my lifetime.
I will be picking your collective brains over the next few months as I plan out my attack.
Regards
Lingam
sawmillman
Make logs into lumber
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2007
well just got motor out of the wrecked buick fought me all the way .the next question is do I need the fuel lines or can I use the stock ones from the monte.THinking of using the gas tank from the buick.any help will be appreciated.
.the next question is do I need the fuel lines or can I use the stock ones from the monte.THinking of using the gas tank from the buick.any help will be appreciated.