'79 Turbo Coupe, wondering what to do

[dr_frankenstein]

...words to live by!

I hear ya, that sounds really nice! So there's no need I'd have to dig into the short block if it's mechanically sound? This is starting to look more promising than I thought!

For the SFI setup, I'd need some kind of crank trigger wheel tho right?

Otherwise, would you say it's easy to convert the harness or am I better of building a new one while I'm at it?

I get what you're saying on the 4bbl TBI and running it with a 4bbl intake, sounds good. Which cfm rating did you get, for what goals?

Also how do you guys handle the rearend? If I'm not mistaken we got the 7.5" 10bolt like the F-bodies and coming from that world I know they rarely hold up to a lot of power.

Thanks!!

Correct, if this motor if fairly sound - let it be. It already has the correct pistons, gaskets and heads. I know there not the best but the basic engine didnt change for the turbo years and many people have gone fast with stock shortblocks. Now one thing i need to tell you now, It Wont Last Forever. Its still a stock shortblock with who knows how many miles. the harder you beat her the shorter that already 30 year old life will be. Just want you to be clear about the buick power thing.

You wont need a crank trigger, as the HEI distributor will do that for you. Your going to end up gutting it out and using the pickup coil.

Harness, It would be best to either build your own, take one out of a 88-95 chevy truck/caprice/impala or buy a universal harness from speedway motors for 350 american bucks. I would pull out any of the old engine wiring and set it aside. it really offers nuthing for this effort. On the upside, it will really clean up the engine bay with all that extra stuff out.

Throttle Body. Thats really a double edged question when it come to using the EBL Flash. The EBL is really really good about compensating for any size cfm unit you put on there so its really up to you. I bought the 1200cfm FAST unit for my blowthru motor... it idles like a dream, no problems at all. The problem with the higher end units is the friggin cost! I paid 900 bucks american for that FAST. There is a company in your fine country that produces a TBI unit in the 500 your dollar range, let me dig into that info for you i need to remember who the company was.

Now, you can also use a factory GM TBI unit... but your limited to about 10lbs of boost. the injectors just cant handle much more pressure and will lock up. I have some ideas and concepts about adapting a couple of other makes and brands style TBI units to 4bbl intakes, but i havent really pursued the results.

Agh yes... the 7.5 rear axle. You can begin by fully welding the tubes to the housing. that helps. pullling the ring and pinion from an S10 a 7.8 and pick up just a bit of strength. Of course avoiding anykind of wheel hop will help it last. And avoid the trans brake and sticky slicks too. But i have seen S10s go into deep 9s with a 7.5 and a small block... I think weight it very critical to life on these. a fat G body doesnt help.

How ya feeling about it so far?

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Where's the "Like" button? Wait, found it. (didn't know we had that now)

LOL!

Rich... Id like to get you behind the wheel of a carb turbo breathing thru the TBI unit... its a very exciting expericance. The control of the EFI really really makes that system shine. and the ease of setting the system up for E85................................ fo geta bout it.



20lbs of boost and no knock!

 

[ownor]

Damn, missed your replies on page#2

I just added this to my last post, after reading your previous post again on the 4bbl thing:

edit: Let me get this straight.. In your case you're just running a 4bbl TBI run by an EBL Flash, that was modded by RBob for 4 injectors - NOT the EBL SFI6, right? So in this case I'd just get the carb'd intake and slap it on and don't even need to worry about a crank trigger or something like that... Hmm, yes that's an easy recipe ^^

So, reiterating. Basically this is just like say a TBI setup like in an F-Body or Caprice, but with a 4bbl Unit and boooooost?
The other option would be going SFI indeed, I could then also use some kind of carb manifold and go "alternative EFI" by adding injector bungs to that. Pretty sure such a manifold isn't readily available for the Buick V6 world tho? Are there any aftermarket EFI manifolds for this engine anyways? I found a pretty solid selection for single and dual plane carb manifolds (Edelbrock Victor, Offenhauser, Weiand, ..., even some NASCAR stuff on ebay).

Then now, my next question is:

There is a company in your fine country that produces a TBI unit in the 500 your dollar range, let me dig into that info for you i need to remember who the company was.

say WUT!? there's only a handful (okay, a little more) of people who even know what TBI means and even less how it works and modifying these things over here (at least the GM/RPD variant). I'm calling BS on this one just to give you a challenge and hunt down that company name for me, hehe! This could be interesting.

On the stock TBI.. Well I could always run with a bored out 2bbl BBC TBI and 90# injectors, but since I don't have one kicking around and they are about (iirc) 400-500$ reman'd, ported, bored etc I might as well go with something different here.

Power and driveability wise, isn't there quite some difference between wet-flow TBI and SFI?

Just browsing through I saw a deal on ebay on 86/87 style stainless fab'd racing headers and a T04E for just short of 400 bucks LOL i just love american car stuff..

Ok one more edit: what about that S10 7.8" rear gear thing? I never heard about this and I've been on thirdgen.org for quite some years now.. Those F-bodies have the same 7.5/7.625" or whatever it was 10 bolt "time bombs" in there, even the LS1 4th gens have it!

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Damn, missed your replies on page#2

I just added this to my last post, after reading your previous post again on the 4bbl thing:



So, reiterating. Basically this is just like say a TBI setup like in an F-Body or Caprice, but with a 4bbl Unit and boooooost?
The other option would be going SFI indeed, I could then also use some kind of carb manifold and go "alternative EFI" by adding injector bungs to that. Pretty sure such a manifold isn't readily available for the Buick V6 world tho? Are there any aftermarket EFI manifolds for this engine anyways? I found a pretty solid selection for single and dual plane carb manifolds (Edelbrock Victor, Offenhauser, Weiand, ..., even some NASCAR stuff on ebay).

Then now, my next question is:

say WUT!? there's only a handful (okay, a little more) of people who even know what TBI means and even less how it works and modifying these things over here (at least the GM/RPD variant). I'm calling BS on this one just to give you a challenge and hunt down that company name for me, hehe! This could be interesting.

On the stock TBI.. Well I could always run with a bored out 2bbl BBC TBI and 90# injectors, but since I don't have one kicking around and they are about (iirc) 400-500$ reman'd, ported, bored etc I might as well go with something different here.

Power and driveability wise, isn't there quite some difference between wet-flow TBI and SFI?

Just browsing through I saw a deal on ebay on 86/87 style stainless fab'd racing headers and a T04E for just short of 400 bucks LOL i just love american car stuff..

Ok one more edit: what about that S10 7.8" rear gear thing? I never heard about this and I've been on thirdgen.org for quite some years now.. Those F-bodies have the same 7.5/7.625" or whatever it was 10 bolt "time bombs" in there, even the LS1 4th gens have it!

LOL... I know its alot to process. Yes what im suggesting is like you say, an upgraded version of TBI but with boost. Very very cool eh?

Sure you could modify the intake to accept bungs, as the aftermarket support isnt there to already offer such a thing. Though i will admit i have considered making a 4bbl adapter to fit the SFI intake.

As for power difference between the TBI and the SFI i dont think that applies like it used to. the Problem with the TBI was its management, now that we have EBL Flash thats a thing of the past. Look at FAST EZEFI 2.0, that management is not as advanced as the EBL and it readily supports up to 500hp. Wet flow is not dead... just evolving.

As for the company, I looked into it. ins not a true TBI but it is a 4bbl throttle body for 265.00 your dollars. adding a block with 4 injectors above or below it wouldnt be hard. However, I dont know your fabrication abilities or desire. Look into a company called SpeedMaster79.

As for the stock TBI... that was a suggestion... more an idea as to what to look for.

Sorry on the rear axle thing... im building a ford 8.8 right now and have the .8 thing on the brain.. its the 7.625 like your thinking. which is a tiny tiny upgrade but it helps.

 

[ownor]

hey doc,
yeah tell me about a lot to process, i'm having my master's degree exam tomorrow night but this buick thing's taking up a substantial amount of my excitement hahaha
well anyways yeah TBI with boost not much news there with the EBL i'd say but Kudos to you sir for adapting this to the very stout block one can build on in the Buick V6 world!
when you say you have considered making a 4bbl adapter for the SFI intake, does that mean the SFI intake is basically that good or were you just considering using the 4bbl for a throttle and running SFI & injectors in the "lower intake" SFI part? confused yet? lol

on the point about TBI vs. SFI, there's still some physical/procedural difference that comes with the sequential port fuel injection although TBI can perform quite well as you put it with the advanced control management we get with EBL.. but it is still a wet flow system. which actually might be a good thing haha idk

on that european TBI type deal, so it is a 4bbl throttle body that you can mount instead of a standard american 4bbl carb?
hmm so it's a throttle body without injector pod i guess. which would still push me in the direction of adapting injector bungs, run SFI and use this as just a TB and put the injectors to do port FI i need to go through this once i'm done with this final final exam tomorrow lol!

i get ya on the rear axle. yeah the 8.8 seems like a good replacement. hard for me to do that over here, i haven't shipped a rear axle yet, but then again multiple T56s were not a problem so far hehe. for the f-body, i still got the 10 bolt in there but not feel like pushing my luck. i have the parts to rebuild and seriously beef one of these up with the LPW cap support cap and axle tube support braces, but no idea how much stronger that will make it. and yes that's the 7 5/8" thing you mention, i think they changed to that somewhere mid-80's in the F-bodies at least. let that be a problem for later ^^

thanks a bunch for your help so far, looks like i should talk to my buddy about not scrapping it just yet heh
laters!

 

[dr_frankenstein]

hey doc,
yeah tell me about a lot to process, i'm having my master's degree exam tomorrow night but this buick thing's taking up a substantial amount of my excitement hahaha
well anyways yeah TBI with boost not much news there with the EBL i'd say but Kudos to you sir for adapting this to the very stout block one can build on in the Buick V6 world!
when you say you have considered making a 4bbl adapter for the SFI intake, does that mean the SFI intake is basically that good or were you just considering using the 4bbl for a throttle and running SFI & injectors in the "lower intake" SFI part? confused yet? lol

on the point about TBI vs. SFI, there's still some physical/procedural difference that comes with the sequential port fuel injection although TBI can perform quite well as you put it with the advanced control management we get with EBL.. but it is still a wet flow system. which actually might be a good thing haha idk

on that european TBI type deal, so it is a 4bbl throttle body that you can mount instead of a standard american 4bbl carb?
hmm so it's a throttle body without injector pod i guess. which would still push me in the direction of adapting injector bungs, run SFI and use this as just a TB and put the injectors to do port FI i need to go through this once i'm done with this final final exam tomorrow lol!

i get ya on the rear axle. yeah the 8.8 seems like a good replacement. hard for me to do that over here, i haven't shipped a rear axle yet, but then again multiple T56s were not a problem so far hehe. for the f-body, i still got the 10 bolt in there but not feel like pushing my luck. i have the parts to rebuild and seriously beef one of these up with the LPW cap support cap and axle tube support braces, but no idea how much stronger that will make it. and yes that's the 7 5/8" thing you mention, i think they changed to that somewhere mid-80's in the F-bodies at least. let that be a problem for later ^^

thanks a bunch for your help so far, looks like i should talk to my buddy about not scrapping it just yet heh
laters!

well I hope i didnt mess your mind up for your exam! LOL

Ive been racking my brain over this stuff for like 10 years now, and i will admit ive had way way way more failures then i did success. I hope i presented you some ideas, to keep the juices flowing on a car that might have been left for dead.

On that SFI intake idea, Thats the direction i was following in that i could adapt where the upper plenum bolted down and replace it with a 4bbl throttle body using the EBL SFI6. that way you get those injector bungs, but with the throttle body on top of the intake the air has a straight path down rather then turning 90* in that upper plenum. It is my belief the upper plenum was a design based on fitting under the hood rather then maximum power. I dont like anything about the factory GN ECU, its a fancy version of Pac-Man technology and needs a replacement. EBL SFI6 is the bees knees in that application.

the SFI vs TBI thing... is really hard to pick a winner, particularly when carbs seem to still be big power makers in the right hands. I think its a crap shoot, and i would base the desicion on budget rather then the tiny advantages of one or the other. My opinion is that the emissions qualitys of SFI cannot be matched by carb or TBI... but where i come from, who cares about emmisions anyways.

Ive never tried shipping an axle over seas, HOWEVER.... your a super smart guy i can tell... dig into that SpeedMaster79 site a bit more... they have a bitchen ford 9" that is incredibly adaptable... wink*wink*wink* and its in the amazing land of down under.

I must say, it has been fantastic to converse with someone who is willing to give the concept a minute... Ive been met with much resistance over these ideas in the past since i tend to be way out in left field all the time.

Lots and lots of options out there... CHEERS!

A.j.

 

[ownor]

wink*wink*wink* and its in the amazing land of down under.

hey AJ just a quick one before i get back to preparing my presentation & stuff for tomorrow hehe, i have a hint on that land down under for you: no kangaroos in austria
i'll get back to this thread after thoroughly soaking my brains on the weekend after the exam thanks again!
--almost forgot: cheers!

 

[dr_frankenstein]

oh... lmao this whole time i thought you was in australia.... My bad brother... no wonder you looking at me like im crazy! HA! lol that changes things for me just a bit. now its alot harder then I thought.

Good luck on your Exams tomorrow!

 

[b4black]

LOL!

Rich... Id like to get you behind the wheel of a carb turbo breathing thru the TBI unit... its a very exciting expericance. The control of the EFI really really makes that system shine. and the ease of setting the system up for E85................................ fo geta bout it.



20lbs of boost and no knock!

I'm learning the EFI side of things with my '02 Regal GS. Some simple mods, fat front tires and it blows by my '83 TR. The idea of running flex fuel sounds great, and to do that, I would have to abandone the electronic Q-Jet and try something new. I'd rather go TBI than swapping to a Holley carb or whatever. I'm setting the new car up with factory engine management, but I can certainly see things changing down the road.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Excellent news gentlemen!

I just had a customer order this exact combo for his 56 ford. I will have the complete recipe within a few months. To include the EBL bin files required to do this. I'm going to be very open about this build and will share the bin files via email if you decide to replicate. Cost will be reflected real time for accuracy.

 

[ownor]

hey guys, switched my brain back on now before it's getting soaked again tonight heh.
that last post sounds great AJ, nice man. I'll follow along with you on this one!

hehe the down oz/austria thing.. no prob here at all, dont worry it doesn't make this build any harder tho, or let's say not for me.
as said critical for this project is now the car base itself, need to check it out in the next couple weeks and see what all needs to be done body work wise and so on. otherwise i'll just rip that drivetrain out and build a nice turbo trans am replica kinda deal, hehe. if the body is good i need to check the engine and tranny out anyways too before i proceed.

partswise, i even have an extra ebl kicking around that i could send off to have it modded for the 4bbl driver thing. that's a requirement, right?
other than that i feel very comfortable with this build and mod.. not sure if i'd rather go SFI tho but other than that, a carb manifold and slapping TBI on there sounds like a deal! do you have any part numbers or sources for those 4 bbl things? are they for a specific engine or just universal stuff or..? anything i need to look out for injector wise (to combine with the EBL inj drivers)?

thanks again!
greetz from austria
Andi

 

[ownor]

re... bought a winter daily driver and havent had time to go look at the buick yet with some other troubleshooting to do on a 4.3 V6 TBI astro van.
i'll keep you guys posted whenever i get to take a closer look at the buick! prolly this or next week at some point i hope!

any news on that 56 ford build, AJ? not sure if i understood you correctly on the suggest procedure on sharing infos and details about the build and calibration... no offense meant anywhere if maybe i worded something wrong here

greetz

 

[dr_frankenstein]

so far nuthing yet.... i think the customers getting cold feet because of the fact its a buick... he is already asking questions about a 4.3.

Im moving forward with this anyways, so its in the works. As of right now, nuthing can happen for me until after mid november as im in full swing prepairing for the SEMA show. we have 6 vehicles going and less then a month to finish them. im quite stressed at the moment.

I will definitly share my information as i generate it both the tuning files for the EBL and the parts and purchase list. right now 75% of the pieces have been purchased... did you want me to set up the list so you can see what was bought?

Aj

 

[turbotroy]

Sounds interesting! Subscribed

 

[ownor]

Hey Dr. AJ,
So you're just gonna build it now and sure thing there's gonna be some car popping up where this could go into right?

I just talked to the Buick-owning friend today and we're probably gonna take a closer look at the car the coming week. It will be no means be a high priority project, got enough other stuff going on first with all those cars that got kinda neglected during my time at university

75% on the parts sounds pretty far already? maybe you can indeed put up a list on what exactly you got so we can discuss this some more. i really like the direction you described on this.
when you get to tuning, of course would be nice to share some insight on both hardware (e.g. wiring harness etc) and software (EBL settings and calibration).. if that's ok with you

Good luck with the SEMA preparation, that really sounds like a nice job to me! (well safe for the stress, but in times like these, which job is free from stress and still holds enough excitement to make it worthwhile..)

Andi

 

[ownor]

Hi there folks,

still not sure what to do here with this car.
Had a look at that Turbo Coupe on Saturday.. the sheet metal left and right inside of the trunk is a little rusty on the lower sides but no holes yet. Driver door is thru on the bottom. Passenger side door glass shattered. Some chips in the front grille plastic. Tires show DOT 1992 Last valid state inspection from 1997. And no real paperwork to start with. Nobody really wants this specific car model (Turbo Coupe) over here anyways.. We drove it for some hundred meters last year when we got the engine running. Basically ran fine and it was driving and stopping. But really quite some work left to get it back on the road.
Might be best to give the drive train a new home ..and convert it over to some EFI and blow thru turbo setup.
Just gauging interest: Would anyone be needing parts off a B4B TC?

 

[dr_frankenstein]

i feel ya, im kicking back up into gear now that SEMA and PRI are done, i got 2 fuel injections in progress as we speak, a twin turbo mopar and an NA ford. So I havent forgotten about you.

 

[mat231v6]

Hi there folks,

still not sure what to do here with this car.
Had a look at that Turbo Coupe on Saturday.. the sheet metal left and right inside of the trunk is a little rusty on the lower sides but no holes yet. Driver door is thru on the bottom. Passenger side door glass shattered. Some chips in the front grille plastic. Tires show DOT 1992 Last valid state inspection from 1997. And no real paperwork to start with. Nobody really wants this specific car model (Turbo Coupe) over here anyways.. We drove it for some hundred meters last year when we got the engine running. Basically ran fine and it was driving and stopping. But really quite some work left to get it back on the road.
Might be best to give the drive train a new home ..and convert it over to some EFI and blow thru turbo setup.
Just gauging interest: Would anyone be needing parts off a B4B TC?

Only thing, i would be interested in is the PEVR if the car has it.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Only thing, i would be interested in is the PEVR if the car has it.

or we could ditch that and go EFI......... lol

 

[mat231v6]

i have a 87 GN but being different is what i am all about.