2-3 flair on fresh trans.

F

Firechicken

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2003
Hey guys, I just built my CZF trans using Ck's manual, but I have developed a 2-3 flair shift. When I first installed the trans last week, the 2-3 was ok except at WOT it hesitated for a split second. Now, after a week of driving, I did a WOT pass and it flaired pretty hard on the 2-3 shift. The engine bounced off the rev limiter before shifting into third.

The trans has been 'dual fed' and is using a transgo shift kit. The Transgo Performance Shift kit consists of:
  • Heavy spring for 1-2 accumulator ( I have omitted the 1-2 acc completely and have blocked off the feed hole)
    Heavier line bias spring
    Accumulator valve spring
    Spacer on low valve
    .500 boost valve, int boost valve and PR spring
    Enlarged holes in spacer plate at: 5(.110), 8(.110), 14(.086), 18(.110), 28(.110), 33(.055)
CK's manual says if 8 and 14 are drilled to .140 this will improve the 2-3 upshift. Will opening these holes get rid of my flair?

The trans holds the power in 2nd without any issues, and it holds the power in 3rd, but it is getting from 2nd to 3rd which is causing the problem.

Any advice for me Chris?
 
also the transgo kit is not compatable with our dual feed mods as they block the third acc hole in the plate.the ck kit is the only kit weve tested our dual feed with and rightfully so.the tgo kit is not for turbo buicks or high output engines in our methods of building and calibrating.
 
Ok thanks guys, I will hook up the guage and post back in a couple of hours.

I actually didn't use the little slug they supplied to block off the 3rd acc in the plate. I just put the checkball back in that position. I reasoned that with the checkball in place, once fluid started to build in the circuit, the pressure would cause the checkball to cover the big hole anyway, leaving the small hole as the only exit for the fluid.

Anyway, I will let you know what the pressures turn out to be.
 
the checkball is pressed against the case not the plate during the ratio change it covers the hole when the 3rd clutch is exhausted
 
Oops, thanks Chris. I guess I should have paid closer attention to the hydraulic diagrams.

Well, I guess it is for the best that I made that mistake. I knew after getting your manual, that I should have had one of your shift kits, but I had already bought the transgo.

Anyway, I will let you know what the pressures turn out to be in a short while.

Thanks for your help so far.
 
Ok, I have some data:


  • 850 idle, trans cold
    ..........Min TV............Max TV
    Park....65...................200-225
    Rev....100..................130-135
    Neut...65...................200-225
    D4......65...................215-225
    D3......65...................210-215
    D2.....180-190............190-195
    D1.....160-165............165-170

    1000 Idle trans hot
    Park....60...................150-155
    Rev.....95..................100-105
    Neut...60...................140-145
    D4......60...................150
    D3......60...................130-135
    D2.....140-145............150-160
    D1.....115-120............120-125


    Light throttle:
    2-3........115-->100 during shift-->105 after in 3rd

    Med throttle:
    1-2......120-->105 during shift-->110 after in 2nd fast shift
    2-3......115-->95 during shift-->105 after in 3rd lags a bit 2nd to 3rd

    WOT:
    1-2.....130-->105 after shift
    2-3.....105-->80 during shift (hangs here for a bit)-->100 after

    Cruising at 1950 RPM 4th gear: 90psi
    Cruising at 2600 RPM 4th gear: 100psi


Do they look really low?
 
Well after reading the section in the manual regarding pressure testing, and the relation between the throttle angle and the increase in pressure which should occur, I can see that there is a serious lack of pressure.

What would the cause of this be? I currently have a 112/134 huge 200c servo and .500 boost valve. The int boost valve is not a .296, but smaller, I am uncertain of the size, but certainly smaller than .296. Even with this small int boost valve, these pressures seem low.

Any advice?

Incidently, this is what the .500 boost valve looks like...it is different from all of the others I have seen. All of the others I have seen only have 2 ribs on the valve, and this one has 3. Is this boost valve crap?

boost.JPG
 
add 1 vquart of oil to the transmission and retest.remove and inspect all the valves in pump.
 
Ok, will try overfilling. I already have a homemade deep pan and deep sump kit with bottom feed filter, but will try overfilling. As well I will try a 700 filter incase my home made sump isn't functioning correctly. When I am in there I will take apart all valves. I think I will change the boost valve to the 'normal' .500 type, and I will stick a .296 int. boost valve in there as well.

The kit came with a stonger boost valve spring, so I used it. The pump is a 13 vane type.

I will report back in the morning with my findings.

Thanks guys.
 
Looks like your hot pressure is down too. That would make the pump the culprit. Too much clearance.
 
Well, I took the boost valves out today and swapped them with a diff .500 valve and a .296 valve. I also made sure my sump was secure. The pressure spring that came in the transgo kit is crap. It is basically a stock spring. I put a stiffer purple spring in.

I haven't done a complete test because it is too hot out and without adding toluene to my gas to spike the octane, my car pings like crazy in this heat.

I will do a full test this evening, but pleminary pressures are:

100PSI in Park, Neutral, D4, D3 at 1000RPM, HOT.

So far with just a short drive, pressures in D4 and D3 never seem to break 125 and pretty much stay close to 100 even with moderate throttle openings.


I'll do a full test this evening once it cools down a bit outside.

Thanks guys.
 
hey that sounds great !..were did you get the stiffer purple spring from?let us no the final results .
 
The spring was actually the spring that was in the pump on the core tranny I rebuilt. Apparently he had a shiftkit of some sort in it along with a .500 boost valve.

Ok here are some more results. These are from the Idle at 1000 RPM test with Min and Max TV:

1000RPM 180F

1000 Idle trans hot
Park....95...................215
Rev.....110..................115
Neut...95...................190
D4......95...................185
D3......95...................180-185
D2.....170..................185-190
D1.....155..................165

So there it is, the pressures are up becasue of the new pressure reg spring, but they aren't as high as in the CK manual, and when driving, they never get much above 100, and certainly nowhere near 200.

If the pressure is supposed to increase with throttle opening due to more TV, then I am not seeing that whatsoever.

Should'nt the pressure be rising to over 200 when at WOT?

Is my pump not working correctly?

Thanks guys.
 
did you forget to install the signal oil pipe on the vbody or is it loose?you have no manual lo boost oil and low pressure at max tv.
 
The signal oil pipe is there and it seems to be tight. I checked to ensure it was secure when I had the pan off this morning.

I noticed that the pressure seemed low as well. Do you think the pump might be faulty? Perhaps a clearance issure? Do you think maybe the valvebody has a crossleak?

My pressures seem low at max TV and when driving, the pressure does not increase with increasing throttle opening.
 
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