What's your MAP values at idle with XFI?

[Otto J]

Makes sense. I was goofing around with the files quite a bit last night, too. I didn't realize that I could map the logs on the VE table. It became very obvious where the problems were.

It's fargin cold this morning, but I'll probably venture out by 10 or 11 today.

Thanks,
Jim

Sounds like jack has you undercontrol.let me know if you don't get it figured out.

 

[turbojimmy]

Sounds like jack has you undercontrol.let me know if you don't get it figured out.

Yes, it's getting there. I appreciate your offers to help and I believe a variety of tuning methods helps me learn how to become self-sufficient. There's more than one way to skin a cat. So I'd still like to get out there, but I'm running out of weekends in 2009. That one time we met up at the Atco track day was great. I'd like to do another one of those in '09.

Jim

 

[norbs]

resend me jacks program it got deleted

 

[turbojimmy]

resend me jacks program it got deleted

Har deeeeeee har har.

I haven't had an opportunity to synch up with Jack today. I was just about to go out and the local tire place called. I had an appointment to have new tires put on my dad's SS that I forgot about. They were special order so he was anxious to have me come down there. So that ate up a chunk of my day.

But, I was able to run it with the changes I made last night. It was still fat at cruise so I goofed around with it some more. Now it's a wee bit lean, but when I get on the throttle it's okay.

I just walked in the door - gonna go through the logs now. I have lots of them.

Jim

 

[turbojimmy]

Logging question

Here's something I noticed - I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong.

FAST XFI will allow me to record up to 8 logs before hitting F8 no longer has any effect. I assume that this is because the internal memory is full. So, I save each of the 8 logs individually to my PC and then log some more. When reviewing the logs, however, each batch of 8 is identical as if it saves the first one but not the rest. I'm using incremental file names (xx-xx-1, xx-xx-2, xx-xx-3...xx-xx-8) but when I open them up they're all the same. When I'm viewing them on the screen they're obviously all different (i.e., the right data).

Do I need to save the logs to my PC directly after I record them instead of letting them pile up?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Otto J]

Here's something I noticed - I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong.

FAST XFI will allow me to record up to 8 logs before hitting F8 no longer has any effect. I assume that this is because the internal memory is full. So, I save each of the 8 logs individually to my PC and then log some more. When reviewing the logs, however, each batch of 8 is identical as if it saves the first one but not the rest. I'm using incremental file names (xx-xx-1, xx-xx-2, xx-xx-3...xx-xx-8) but when I open them up they're all the same. When I'm viewing them on the screen they're obviously all different (i.e., the right data).

Do I need to save the logs to my PC directly after I record them instead of letting them pile up?

Thanks,
Jim

Yes they must be saved after each one or you only get the last one,as you log a run it becomes a temp file and it only allows one temp file in memory

 

[turbojimmy]

Yes they must be saved after each one or you only get the last one,as you log a run it becomes a temp file and it only allows one temp file in memory

That explains that then. Thanks!

Jim

 

[HighPSI]

Sounds to me like the problem is with the tuneup. I would look at injector opening time, target A/F, and rescaling the VE table in the idle area.

hmm......

 

[Blazer406]

After looking a few minutes at your datalog..... your TPS scaling is way off..... it thinks you are at 16-18% throttle.... at idle (as I understood it... this log was supposed to be at idle....) ...... this could be a big part of your problem...... I think the XFI does have an "idle" part of the programming.... but I think this will all be screwed up if it thinks you have the throttle held a 16-18 % open all the time....

Still looking..... but HTH

edit: You need to add O2 correction to your dashboard.... so you can see how much it is correcting.... I might have missed it....but don't see 02 correction...

edit: from the electronic manual:

11.5.3 Max. TPS for Idle (%)

The "Max. TPS for Idle" field is used to set the threshold where the ECU no longer considers the engine to be idling. It is recommended to observe the TPS reading at an idle and setting this field to that number plus one. In other words, if your TPS reads 10% at an idle, set this value to 11. When the TPS percentage exceeds the value specified in this field, the IAC motor will be "locked" into the position specified in the throttle follower graph, and the Timing Trim graph will not be used.

With that said.... if the TPS is scaled properly.... I think it will be at 0% at idle..... and 100% at WOT.

hmm..........

 

[turbojimmy]

hmm..........

Okay, okay. Both you guys were right. But I couldn't get past the fact that it worked right before - with the TPS and VE tables as-is. I was looking for a mechanical fix. I still have a hunch I'm tuning around some sort of mechanical problem, but I have to admit that it is running much better. There are still some minor issues that I hope we can tune through.

But, since I have no third gear it's impossible to do any sort of WOT testing. I can't say too much about it since it's now the subject of litigation, but this is my 4th transmission from a particular vendor that can't hold 3rd gear. Said vendor is also responsible for blowing my engine to little pieces, which is why I am now tuning a new combo.

I was reluctant to be too hard on the car until I got the tune sorted out. Today I was comfortable enough to begin to get into the throttle a bit. I was just up on Rt. 80 doing some WOT testing. As soon as it drops to 3rd it goes to redline and barely accelerates. I got smacked down by an old Maxima from a roll for gawd's sake. I got a "Injector DC...." error which is scary.

So I'll focus on the part throttle stuff for now, which is the stuff that makes it nice to drive around town. The logs are showing that the AFR is coming in line. I still have a stumble when I come off the throttle and then get back on it and it cranks too long before it starts, but I'm taking baby steps here.

Thanks all, and I'm sorry I didn't take your advice sooner.

Jim

 

[Blazer406]

That's OK.......that is how we learn........I am sure you will learn allot more before this is over........IMHO......there is nothing worse.....than being totally dependant....on someone else to fix.....troubleshoot......or tune....your own car........it is more fullfilling......if you learn it and are able to be more independant........however.....there is absolutely.....nothing wrong with asking for help either......

Good Luck........and keep us posted.....

 

[JCotton]

That's OK.......that is how we learn........I am sure you will learn allot more before this is over........IMHO......there is nothing worse.....than being totally dependant....on someone else to fix.....troubleshoot......or tune....your own car........it is more fullfilling......if you learn it and are able to be more independant........however.....there is absolutely.....nothing wrong with asking for help either......

Good Luck........and keep us posted.....

Right on...... I learned much the same way when the old Classic FAST systems hit the market. My mentor walked me through getting the base set up and running, showed me how to make a few adjustments... then basically told me to play and call if I hit a snag. AS I learned more and more he gave me a tip here and there.... Thats the beauty of a FAST, we can get in and tweak anytime, anywhere... any event not to our liking, we can tweak it. I still go into the help menue and read sections for a better understanding of what a screen or table can do for me.... That's where the real help is, it's pretty tough to learn if we don't understand what we are doing, and of course a little re-enforcement here is just a perfect combination.

 

[norbs]

As soon as it drops to 3rd it goes to redline and barely accelerates. I got smacked down by an old Maxima from a roll for gawd's sake. I got a "Injector DC...." error which is scary
Jim

WHat kind of transmissions are you using???

 

[turbojimmy]

WHat kind of transmissions are you using???

[ cough ] CK [ cough ] 2004R with a Vigilante 0-pump 5-disc LU converter. It's definitely slipping like the other 3 that were in it. I won't get into the details, but I've tried everything BUT the transmission itself trying to fix it. I didn't want to believe it was the transmission itself.

Jim

 

[norbs]

It could be converter issues, but we are getting off topic here. Get the tune sorted out.

 

[turbojimmy]

It could be converter issues, but we are getting off topic here. Get the tune sorted out.

Yes we are getting off topic. Suffice it to say that over the years all possibilities were exhausted and the problem pointed back to the same place every time.

I have some time off with the holiday coming up and will continue the family tradition of eating Thanksgiving dinner and retiring to the garage to work on the car

All in all I'm encouraged by the way the car runs. Running rich REALLY robs you of power. It's like night and day. Now it's in the fine tuning until I can get to the track in the Spring and do some WOT testing.


Jim

 

[turbojimmy]

I have another question (imagine that!).

Looking at the log files, my injector duty cycle shoots up to 80%, and in one case 90%, at 1/2 throttle. I'm sure that this is why at WOT on the highway I got the 'max injector duty cycle' error. I have it configured for 65# injectors in an attempt to lean it out a little (and knowing that the 60# injectors are often considered 65). Fuel pressure is good, and is fed by 2 340s. I verified that the Aux #2 output is working. It comes on at 40% throttle and 10 PSI (170 kpA).

The DC goes high under a load, high boost >20 PSI above 5K RPM. Do I need bigger injectors? I wouldn't think so, but maybe I do?

TIA,
Jim

 

[Blazer406]

I would make a blast at WOT..... and make an assessment based on that....

Both snapshots show a part throttle TPS.......

As far as telling the FAST that you have 65 # injectors.... I don't think that matters at the end of the day.... for what pulse width it takes to feed an engine..... and hence the duty cycle.....

It will affect the scaling of the VE table.... but not the pulse width required to maintain a certain AFR at a certain boost level.

IMHO.... start saving for more injectors.... or install an alky kit. This will give your injectors some breathing room.... we went 10.40's on 75's with about 50% duty cycle.... and a single nozzle alky kit....

Edit... I see (based on the link in your sig) you have a SMC alky kit. Were you running it? Can you turn it up? Needs more alky to bring duty cycle down.... if you are going to keep those injectors...

 

[turbojimmy]

I would make a blast at WOT..... and make an assessment based on that....

Both snapshots show a part throttle TPS.......

As far as telling the FAST that you have 65 # injectors.... I don't think that matters at the end of the day.... for what pulse width it takes to feed an engine..... and hence the duty cycle.....

It will affect the scaling of the VE table.... but not the pulse width required to maintain a certain AFR at a certain boost level.

IMHO.... start saving for more injectors.... or install an alky kit. This will give your injectors some breathing room.... we went 10.40's on 75's with about 50% duty cycle.... and a single nozzle alky kit....

Edit... I see (based on the link in your sig) you have a SMC alky kit. Were you running it? Can you turn it up? Needs more alky to bring duty cycle down.... if you are going to keep those injectors...

Yes, I had the alky kit turned on. It's a little more than 1/2 way up. I really don't like to use it at the track, though. I use it as a crutch on the street, which I realize requires a compeltely different tune.

I can't do a WOT blast because the trans slips (and there's not enough room here in NJ), and I also get the SES light accompanied by the max injector duty cycle error. Time for new injectors I suppose. Not an awful problem to have I guess - it means it's moving a lot more air than it was before (I had a lot of head work done this time around).

I'm going to try to get to the Buick vs. Mustang shootout at Atco this weekend to see if I can bug Jack and other gurus who might be in attendance.

Jim

 

[Blazer406]

Yes, I had the alky kit turned on. It's a little more than 1/2 way up. I really don't like to use it at the track, though. I use it as a crutch on the street, which I realize requires a compeltely different tune.......
Jim

Yikes!..... I wouldn't run anywhere with the alky off with those duty cycles.... IMHO... it is asking for trouble......

Yes... having to up the injector size is a good thing.... What are your goals?

I have a similar combo.... and am encouraged by the direction your's appears to be headed in.....

I too have 60# injectors... but am planning on converting my single nozzle alkycontrol to dual nozzle at some point.....

I have also been wanting to try the new 79# high impedance injectors..... no ECM mods required.... but until I dry my current 60's up.... they aren't going anywhere...