Spragless, non lock converters aren't for street cars!!!

[Dusty Bradford]

This guy must have missed the memo.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=451963&highlight=bradenton+mexico

Just some proof that this old way of thinking is entirely false. It's over 50 pages long now so I will summarize it for you.

This customer just won the NMCA true street event running 8.70's with his Mustang. The kicker is he drove 2000 miles from New Mexico to Bradenton with one of our non lock, spragless 2800 stall converters before he raced it. Trans temps never got over 170 with them around 140-150 most of the time. That's cooler than my daily driver 2500 Chevy.

He uses an OD AOD trans so it does have overdive. Rpm at 70mph was slightly over 2000 rpm. The old thinking that a non lock spragless converter makes too much heat for a daily driver is again proved to be false. I'm not sure why we had that drilled in our Buick heads for so long but I'm glad this info is out there for all to see.

 

[johnnyttype]

Does this apply to the 9.5" non lock i just ordered?! haha, good stuff!

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Yes it does apply.

We all have been told over and over again that a non lock builds too much heat for a daily driver. There is also alot of talk about spragless converters building too much heat in a daily driver. This converter was both spragless and a non lock so it's very tough yet heat wasn't an issue. This is the way all of our 9.5's are built unless a customer asks for it to have a sprag.

 

[blackdeathtrap]

its the same as iv been told that if i drive me car around with the shifter in over drive il over heat my tranny no one ever notices my radiator size tranny cooler mounted in front of my rad though hahahaha

 

[jasjamz]

I remember in the mid to late 90, guys had 70 and 72mm turbos on the 231's. These street cars would not spool without 3600-4000 stall converters with the little 8:1 engines. It made the large turbos fun to drive on the street and easier footbrake launch. The downside was the heat introduced by the high stall speed not the fact that it was a non lock. I'm sure if he put 3800 stall in it would have higher temps too correct?

 

[ZNix]

When I get a new transmission built.. I am going a NL built for my set-up from Dusty.. This thread just makes me want to do it sooner .

Nix

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I remember in the mid to late 90, guys had 70 and 72mm turbos on the 231's. These street cars would not spool without 3600-4000 stall converters with the little 8:1 engines. It made the large turbos fun to drive on the street and easier footbrake launch. The downside was the heat introduced by the high stall speed not the fact that it was a non lock. I'm sure if he put 3800 stall in it would have higher temps too correct?

Most of those 3800-4000 stalls may have been 3200-3400 in reality. That gets back to how the converter is rated. In the old days. If you called a company and wanted a 3200 stall you got a converter that stalled 3200 behind a decent small block Chevy. It probably built boost by 2800 rpm behind the Buick. So you have 2800 rpm at 0-1#, 3000 rpm at 3-4#, 3400 rpm at 5-7#, 4000 rpm at 10#.

The higher the stall the more heat any converter will make. You can have a 4000 stall converter that locks up for highway driving to keep heat down. Luckily we don't have to worry about having that much stall with these cars, or about any turbo car for that matter.

 

[SIXBANGR]

I bought my GN 5 month's ago in Wash. state. Drove it home, 2200 miles. Pulled the convertor cover to see what i had. Has a Texas Art Carr 9 1/2", 2800-3200 stall. I had no problem. I have since put on another 3000 street miles and will be driving 700 miles Friday to go to Texas.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I bought my GN 5 month's ago in Wash. state. Drove it home, 2200 miles. Pulled the convertor cover to see what i had. Has a Texas Art Carr 9 1/2", 2800-3200 stall. I had no problem. I have since put on another 3000 street miles and will be driving 700 miles Friday to go to Texas.

Makes you wonder where the stories of excessive heat came from. Once I swapped to a non lock in 97 or 98 I never looked back and never had any heating issues. You always heard "They make too much heat for a driver".

 

[johnnyttype]

Maybe its because people were leaving the factory "trans cooler" in the radiator hooked up rather than running a decent external cooler?!

 

[6-b-kwik]

been running mine for 10ys plus had a 3200 then went to 3500 non lock now it isnt a daily but ive had zero issues also have upgraded tranny cooler

 

[jarredsoon]

Aw Man Now I can't wait to try my 9.5 NL from Dusty!!! Been waiting all winter.....

 

[deezdad]

Bad title...some people are gonna read it and glance at the author & assume its gospel w/out reading the content..

 

[TheGovernment]

My 10" PTC NL should be here this week! I bought a B&M tranny cooler to go with it. Once it arrives my tranny can get it's stage 2 kit done and I'll be motoring!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Excited to see how this will all work together

 

[scot w.]

Going on year number 2 with my 9.5" Billet cover, Protorque 2800 NLU spragless converter that is daily driven, autocrossed, dragraced without one single issue.... I also have a Huge B&M trans cooler with a 12" "S" blade fan.....

 

[bison]

I knew this for years and just let the dopes think otherwise while i flew past them and their junk converter. I even agreed with a few people when they told me id be overheating my transmission with the spragless setup. lol

 

[kidglok]

i have a derale cooler with a 180*on/170*off thermal switch and after a 45 minute drive on the new jersey turnpike the fan runs for about a minute, must not be too hot!!

 

[V6RACER]

We never see over 180 trans temps in stop and go traffic during our 25 mile cruise races down here with spragless convertors..Even during the summer months, 100 degree days. This is on a V8/turbo and V6/turbo regals.

 

[Mike T]

I have a spragless as well. Was it though that overheating would occur because the stater could not "freewheel" ? As I understand it in a sprag converter the stater is only engaged when moving from a stop or very low speeds? So in a spragless with the stater basically locked all of the time and the fluid continuously changing directions is this why they say heat could build?

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

The original YB post that Dusty linked is over 130 pages now. Hey Dusty, can you give us another summary on the 80 extra pages?