Precisions new lineup

[we4Mateo]

Finally, this is what I've been wanting to know. Thank you! ks

I've been corrected...the 5858 turbine wheel is still cast but engineered with cea design principles so it's still more efficient but not mfs as I stated. The compressor is still mfs billet aluminum.

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[bison]

Best spooling option is Bisons turbo. Best power option is the 5858. Best balance of both worlds is the take a 5858 and send it to Bison for a exhaust housing swap to the garret .63. The cheetah thing... I would contact Jack Cotton at Cottons performance for an honest answer cause he has sold a ton of turbonetics units.

Youd be surprised of the potential of the 5957 i sell. It has a lot of potential. At least as much as a Gt35r with a 57mm stage 3 that was sold as a 6131 by various vendors over the years and has been in the 10'@123+. 57-58 lbs/min on the correct combo. The old cheetah turbos usually came with a t31 stage 3 copy and some appeared to have stage 5 t350 turbines. Depending on which compressor is used with what turbine they are very similar to the Garrett based turbos.

 

[GMTECH12002]

So far sounds to me like Bison may have the best bang for the buck. I was looking at the latest cheetah turbos and even the stage1 offers a61mm billet compressor with there f1 62 turbine, does that mean there stage 1 is a 6162HPC build? If so looks like the stage 1 could have just a bit more lag than the Precision 5858cea and Bisons 5957mfs


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[bison]

So far sounds to me like Bison may have the best bang for the buck. I was looking at the latest cheetah turbos and even the stage1 offers a61mm billet compressor with there f1 62 turbine, does that mean there stage 1 is a 6162HPC build? If so looks like the stage 1 could have just a bit more lag than the Precision 5858cea and Bisons 5957mfs


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Turbonetics 62 is an f1 wheel and is a better match to the compressor wheel but is going to spool slower. Typically 600 more stall @0 with the same exhaust housing is needed compared to whats needed for the same spoolup with the smaller 57ish mm exducer turbines. So a lot more lag if the converter is marginal. Its probably similar to a 6262 in performance but i dont have any data. Fwiw my designations on the turbos i sell are the inducer on the compressor and exducer of the turbine actual measured and dont designate anything else necessarily. This is not always the case when trying to compare something. I could say is a its a 6876 or what ever i wanted even though the numbers dont really mean much. Sometimes they refer to the trim and sometimes they are just plain made up.

 

[GMTECH12002]

Turbonetics 62 is an f1 wheel and is a better match to the compressor wheel but is going to spool slower. Typically 600 more stall @0 with the same exhaust housing is needed compared to whats needed for the same spoolup with the smaller 57ish mm exducer turbines. So a lot more lag if the converter is marginal. Its probably similar to a 6262 in performance but i dont have any data. Fwiw my designations on the turbos i sell are the inducer on the compressor and exducer of the turbine actual measured and dont designate anything else necessarily. This is not always the case when trying to compare something. I could say is a its a 6876 or what ever i wanted even though the numbers dont really mean much. Sometimes they refer to the trim and sometimes they are just plain made up.

so you believe the Turbonetics stage 1 cheetah is comparable to the 6262 in performance, and maybe even in converter requirements to overcome lag? do you know what exhaust housing style Turbonetics uses, garret style or precision, or is it their own? Do you have any idea what the a/r for there exhaust housing is, 63 or maybe larger? could the garret 63 be used on the cheetah to increase response. I dont mean to push one brand in front of the other, i just want factual comparisons to make an informed decision, so please dont take any offense to talking about the competion. I was confused by Precisons new listings, but the info i have gathered from you and others here has cleared alot of that up. thanks so much for your input

 

[bison]

so you believe the Turbonetics stage 1 cheetah is comparable to the 6262 in performance, and maybe even in converter requirements to overcome lag? do you know what exhaust housing style Turbonetics uses, garret style or precision, or is it their own? Do you have any idea what the a/r for there exhaust housing is, 63 or maybe larger? could the garret 63 be used on the cheetah to increase response. I dont mean to push one brand in front of the other, i just want factual comparisons to make an informed decision, so please dont take any offense to talking about the competition. I was confused by Precisons new listings, but the info i have gathered from you and others here has cleared alot of that up. thanks so much for your input

Id expect 70lbs/min out of the compressor. It may be a really good match of wheels with the 62f1. If it fell short of 68lbs/min id say the value is not there. The 62f1 turbine is good to about 70lbs/min for sure. You should search around. T-netics used to publish compressor maps. Idk if they still do. They use their own ex housings which are comparable to a Garrett as to what their designation and actual a/r is. Ive seen .63 and .82 on the 3 bolt stuff. I doubt there is much gain in spoolup using a Garrett .63 vs a T-netics .63. They are very close on the volute and nozzle when doing a visual. Also no problem talking about the competition. This is a technical forum not a sales pitch and the info given should be of a technical nature free from bias.

 

[GMTECH12002]

been talking with turbonetics about their cheetahs.
stage 1 is a 59mm compressor and 57turbine 63 a/r turbine housing
stage 2 starts at 61mm compressor and 62 turbine 63 a/r turbine housing
stage 3 can be 64,72, 76mm compressor with different options for the turbine and larger a/r for the turbine housing
all can be upgraded to a forged billet compressor wheel, but the smallest billet comp wheel is 61mm
all can be upgraded to ball bearing.
i dont know if anyone else is interested but i like to know my options

 

[Mr.Spool]

also on the tnetics 3 bolt stuff if one goes larger than a 65/ptrim turbine you will not be able to run the tnetics .63/82 housings but will be using a pte ex housings.

 

[GMTECH12002]

Id expect 70lbs/min out of the compressor. It may be a really good match of wheels with the 62f1. If it fell short of 68lbs/min id say the value is not there. The 62f1 turbine is good to about 70lbs/min for sure. You should search around. T-netics used to publish compressor maps. Idk if they still do. They use their own ex housings which are comparable to a Garrett as to what their designation and actual a/r is. Ive seen .63 and .82 on the 3 bolt stuff. I doubt there is much gain in spoolup using a Garrett .63 vs a T-netics .63. They are very close on the volute and nozzle when doing a visual. Also no problem talking about the competition. This is a technical forum not a sales pitch and the info given should be of a technical nature free from bias.

i did get a compressor map for the 61 billet gtk from turbonetics, the best flow rate i see for the 61 billet was at 103k rpm 69.84lbs/min at 1.88 pr, so being a newbie on comp maps and calculations , that looks like the 61 billet in the gtk configuration can support 698 hp at about 13 lbs of boost, does this sound correct

 

[bison]

been talking with turbonetics about their cheetahs.
stage 1 is a 59mm compressor and 57turbine 63 a/r turbine housing
stage 2 starts at 61mm compressor and 62 turbine 63 a/r turbine housing
stage 3 can be 64,72, 76mm compressor with different options for the turbine and larger a/r for the turbine housing
all can be upgraded to a forged billet compressor wheel, but the smallest billet comp wheel is 61mm
all can be upgraded to ball bearing.
i dont know if anyone else is interested but i like to know my options

With that info a stage one will not support anywhere near the mass flow a 6262 can. Probably 13-15 lbs/min less. So about 150hp more potential with the 6262. The stage 1 is better suited to stock headed near stock convertered applications. The stage 2 is probably a really good match of wheels.

 

[bison]

i did get a compressor map for the 61 billet gtk from turbonetics, the best flow rate i see for the 61 billet was at 103k rpm 69.84lbs/min at 1.88 pr, so being a newbie on comp maps and calculations , that looks like the 61 billet in the gtk configuration can support 698 hp at about 13 lbs of boost, does this sound correct

That looks like its a good match to the 62 f1 which flows about the same but the peak flow occurs at too low of a PR to be useful to us unless its only giving a little less flow at PR's of 2.3-2.5:1 where we would need to be to get anywhere near the expected power level. Id be looking for about 550hp at 2.5:1 PR as a good baseline for a good heads, aftermarket cam, aftermarket intercooler. With it built around the turbo it could be setup to run more rpm and less boost to make it work better with that compressor map but an engine like that woudl be very expensive and would likely be looking to make a lot more than the turbo could support. If you look at the compressor map and it falls around 55-60 lbs/min at 2.5:1 the turbo will work very well but isnt going to spool on a stock converter.

 

[GMTECH12002]

That looks like its a good match to the 62 f1 which flows about the same but the peak flow occurs at too low of a PR to be useful to us unless its only giving a little less flow at PR's of 2.3-2.5:1 where we would need to be to get anywhere near the expected power level. Id be looking for about 550hp at 2.5:1 PR as a good baseline for a good heads, aftermarket cam, aftermarket intercooler. With it built around the turbo it could be setup to run more rpm and less boost to make it work better with that compressor map but an engine like that woudl be very expensive and would likely be looking to make a lot more than the turbo could support. If you look at the compressor map and it falls around 55-60 lbs/min at 2.5:1 the turbo will work very well but isnt going to spool on a stock converter.

62.61 at 2.21 pr.
55.61 at 2.28
48.46 at 2.4
41.91 at 2.52
36.67 at2.56
seems to me like it drops off pretty quick, or am i just expecting too much?

 

[bison]

62.61 at 2.21 pr.
55.61 at 2.28
48.46 at 2.4
41.91 at 2.52
36.67 at2.56
seems to me like it drops off pretty quick, or am i just expecting too much?

You would need really good heads and cam to take advantage of that much. Seems like it drops right off. Looks like you would be over speeding trying to run it at over 50lbs/min on the typical small cammed average head applications. Then again i run turbos off the map all the time and they usually make more power than the map would indicate. Usually they just stop making boost at a certain point. I ran a cast 60-1 to 592whp @22psi and its performance was way more than the map would indicate possible.

 

[notacarlo]

Keep in mind because a turbocharger is advertised at "620 horsepower" doesn't mean bolt it on and you have "620 horsepower".
The other half of that equation is the motor/drivetrain. It is a number that supports advertised horsepower. If you slap a big turbo on a stock block, you will find out all of your other shortcomings real quick.

 

[GMTECH12002]

Keep in mind because a turbocharger is advertised at "620 horsepower" doesn't mean bolt it on and you have "620 horsepower".
The other half of that equation is the motor/drivetrain. It is a number that supports advertised horsepower. If you slap a big turbo on a stock block, you will find out all of your other shortcomings real quick.

This is one of the reasons for starting this thread.


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[belsie]

Leaning towards the 5858 in the near future, what's the opinions on the ported housing w. 4' maf pipe.
Seems like a good design while relieving some back pressure on deceleration. Any thoughts??

 

[bison]

If you slap a big turbo on a stock block, you will find out all of your other shortcomings real quick.

Maybe if the rest of the parts can support the mass flow otherwise it will just spool slow and not make more power than something smaller.

 

[jasjamz]

Leaning towards the 5858 in the near future, what's the opinions on the ported housing w. 4' maf pipe.
Seems like a good design while relieving some back pressure on deceleration. Any thoughts??

Good choice

 

[1KWIKSIX]

Leaning towards the 5858 in the near future, what's the opinions on the ported housing w. 4' maf pipe.
Seems like a good design while relieving some back pressure on deceleration. Any thoughts??

Yup, great turbo! I've had one installed since last year & am very happy with it. It's a DBB5857SP (4" S ported shroud) with Precisions .63A/R.
Guess it depends on your needs.....for me, my car is driven on the street & won't likely see the track ....I wanted a really quick spooling turbo with good response & street manners. Out of the box & bolted on I did have some crazy boost spike / over boost issues I had to deal with. Opening up the wastegate hole to 1.10" from Precisions supplied 0.90" opening & radiusing the inner edges of the hole fixed the problem. You may need a little higher stall convertor than the D5.....or contact Bison to machine up a Garrett .63A/R Exhaust Housing for the remedy (this will be less expensive then a convertor swap).


dave

 

[GMTECH12002]

Yup, great turbo! I've had one installed since last year & am very happy with it. It's a DBB5857SP (4" S ported shroud) with Precisions .63A/R.
Guess it depends on your needs.....for me, my car is driven on the street & won't likely see the track ....I wanted a really quick spooling turbo with good response & street manners. Out of the box & bolted on I did have some crazy boost spike / over boost issues I had to deal with. Opening up the wastegate hole to 1.10" from Precisions supplied 0.90" opening & radiusing the inner edges of the hole fixed the problem. You may need a little higher stall convertor than the D5.....or contact Bison to machine up a Garrett .63A/R Exhaust Housing for the remedy (this will be less expensive then a convertor swap).


dave[/quote
how well are you pleased with the ball bearing option, did you run it first with the stock converter and experience some lag?