how to make a gbody handle

[Turbo6Smackdown]

My plan is bilstein shocks, new stock springs, all new body bushings, all new control arm bushings, stock front sway (the f body sway did nothing, and wasn't that much lighter either) energy suspension sway bar bushings and end links, 1 and 3/8ths rear sway bar, boxed lower control arms, all 4 frame brace kits from kirbans, and bf goodrich G force ta kd tires in 235 all the way around.

I have the bars, shocks and brace kits now. Handles like a dream already. The new springs and tires will complete the package, and i'm VERY confident, will keep up handling wise, with just about anything else out there. Wait till I yank about 200 lbs off the car too.

The only other things I could suggest, if you wanted to go a little further, would be to get that expensive, bolt in rear sway from hr parts, and do all aluminum aftermarket control and trailing arms.

 

[FreeBoost]

My plan is bilstein shocks, new stock springs, all new body bushings, all new control arm bushings, stock front sway (the f body sway did nothing, and wasn't that much lighter either) energy suspension sway bar bushings and end links, 1 and 3/8ths rear sway bar, boxed lower control arms, all 4 frame brace kits from kirbans, and bf goodrich G force ta kd tires in 235 all the way around.

I have the bars, shocks and brace kits now. Handles like a dream already. The new springs and tires will complete the package, and i'm VERY confident, will keep up handling wise, with just about anything else out there. Wait till I yank about 200 lbs off the car too.

The only other things I could suggest, if you wanted to go a little further, would be to get that expensive, bolt in rear sway from hr parts, and do all aluminum aftermarket control and trailing arms.

Forget the front control arm bushings. I'd go with upper and lower GlobalWest front controls with the 12" front discs with the tall (Abody) spindle. You will not believe the improvement in the handling.

 

[gnfanatic]

global west kicks ass. I ahve their rear lower control arms. I am saving up for there front uppers and there bushings.

 

[Trannyman95]

Lots of great info here! I too have been looking into suspension and brake upgrades-86 Cutlass with Series 2 3800- and the Buick suspsension seems to be the best combo since the engine is much lighter than the V8s. I was all set to do the A-body spindle setup as I want to run a larger front brake and will have 16" wheels on the car soon but have read of guys complaining about bump-steer though I am not seeing that mentioned here so maybe it is a non issue? I have seen a lot of odd and probably good front brake upgrade ideas but I really dont know what to go with. I would also like to go with rear discs but dont know where to start. As of now I have poly bushings with stock front controls arms, lowered V8 springs so its pretty stiff in the front, 34mm F-body front sway bar, SSM rear lift bars and Jegs adjustable uppers. No rear bar yet as I havent decided on one yet and the car launches amazing with this setup but really needs an air bag on the right side. I dont want to compromise the launch any and not sure what adding a rear sway bar will do to it. The car came factory with no rear sway bar so it has never had one and so I have no comparison of with and without but know it is definately costing in the cornering department. I also put in GN non-progressive replacement rear springs and they seem very weak and any weight at all in the trunk makes it sag a bit. I am going to be using GTA wheels and with drag radials I am likely going to have a custom rear set made to use a wider tire so there is a change they will stick out in the fender area and I am trying to avoid rubbing. I installed airbags in a friends car and that seemed to solve his problems but I didnt care much for the ride feel so would prefer to not have to rely on airbags unless there is extra weight in the back or for track use.

 

[tta1240]

my gn seems to handle reel well
here is a vid from the previous owner.
Scot W's 1986 Grand National on the Auto-X, 2006'- Video

 

[Hot Air]

I have two of the GM 1LE 36mm front sway bars (one powder coated gray some years ago..chips, one NOS), orange Koni's, and vacuum booster/master cylinder for sale. E-mail me at alphaenvirmgt@vnet.net.

Front:
I replaced the 1LE bar with the Hotchkis bar. It fit much better but, of course, it was designed for the G-body. Also have B-car front spindles/12" brakes with Hotchkis tubular upper control arms.

Rear:
Also have ATR 1-3/8" rear bar, Metco boxed, adjustable upper control arm and Metco boxed lower control arm.
Shocks are 6-way adjustables. Also added poly GNX body bushing along with poly bushings in all the other positions. Also have GNX trunk bulkhead "X" bracing, front cross-member braces and under-hood front corner wire braces.

Had Hotchkis (?) lowering springs at all corners but put stock springs back in so car wouldn't drag so much. Besides, with the big sway bars, you don't need the heave springs. Rides good too.

Baer rear disk brakes.

GM hydroboost. Works GREAT!

Also have front GTA wheels on rear and rear GTA's on the front. The B-car spindles makes that possible w/o spacers.

Conrad Carter

 

[gnbooster87]

this is some good info

 

[Gary Wells]

T-CHRGD:
Really looking forward to seeing pictures of the Spohn Pro-Touring adjustable rear sway bar & how it interacts & fits with the Fays Watts linkage. Does the Fays Watts linkage clear a Hooker Cat-back system do you know? Please keep us posted. When's your sway bar coming?

 

[scojack_2001]

My '86 handles decent for whats done to it. All Ive done is the simple stuff.

Front:

Kirban frame braces (soon to be replaced by a SC&C brace)
36mm swaybar & poly bushings. Noticed a difference over the stocker
KYB shocks
245/50/16 Kumhos on GTA fronts

Rear:

Kirban rear seat x-braces
Kirban cargo coils with airbags waiting to go in
Larger than stock 1" rear swaybar
Boxed stock LCAs with new rubber bushings
KYB shocks
255/50/16 MT DRs on GTA fronts

I'd like to go to BMR control arms all around, with adjustable rear uppers. Also 1LE front springs and a LS-1 F-Body brake swap. That way I can still use the G-Body spindle. Im trying to stay on a relatively tight budget. I also have rear airbags and ATR-style bar ready to go in.

Are the GNX #5 bushings hard to put in? Ive hard those for a while and was hoping to get to those soon. May do all the other body bushings as well. Is the GNX frame bracing different from what I already have? Havent heard about that setup yet.

I just want to improve the handling and braking of my GN, not go out and race BMWs or anything like that. Thats what Mr. Z06 will be for!

 

[T-CHRGD]

T-CHRGD:
Really looking forward to seeing pictures of the Spohn Pro-Touring adjustable rear sway bar & how it interacts & fits with the Fays Watts linkage. Does the Fays Watts linkage clear a Hooker Cat-back system do you know? Please keep us posted. When's your sway bar coming?

Mark at SC&C says the Spohn rear bar will ship just after the 1st of the year.
I do not know how the Watts Link clears exhaust systems, as my exhaust does not go past the rear axle That would be a better question for Mark. :biggrin:

 

[turbo39151]

I would like to see what kind of rims Freeboost is using 12 x17"! That is awesome. Is the frame notched to fit the 315 tire? This is what I've been looking to do for mine (If I can get away without cutting)

 

[FreeBoost]

I would like to see what kind of rims Freeboost is using 12 x17"! That is awesome. Is the frame notched to fit the 315 tire? This is what I've been looking to do for mine (If I can get away without cutting)

The rims are Simmons OM17X9 -15.78mm BLACK (F), OM17X12 -47.53mm BLACK (R)The front tires are 275-40-17, the back are 315-35-17

The frame isn't notched but I do have flares.

 

[8UWITH6]

Whats up with the fender well gap??? Is that the cars normal ride height in the rear?

 

[turbobuick1]

What about rack and pinion for improved feel?

This might seem a little off topic, but I think this could apply to making a G Body handle. I'm aware of a few members here doing a TRW rack and pinion install, but it seems like maybe their intent was to shed weight and eliminate bumpsteer for straight line racing. I'm wondering if anyone has installed a rack and pinion on their car and noticed a nice improvement in steering feel in terms of handling?

 

[Gary Wells]

This might seem a little off topic, but I think this could apply to making a G Body handle. I'm aware of a few members here doing a TRW rack and pinion install, but it seems like maybe their intent was to shed weight and eliminate bumpsteer for straight line racing. I'm wondering if anyone has installed a rack and pinion on their car and noticed a nice improvement in steering feel in terms of handling?

I am more into the "Pro-touring" attitude or basically all-around performance including straight-like acceleration, braking, & handling combined, so I am going this route:

Savitske Classic & Custom

I don't believe that any of our supporting suppliers / vendors / shops carry this as of yet, so I will probably purchase from Marcus Savitske at SC&C.

I have heard of cheaper boxes, but I am not about to put any junk on my car.
HTH

Pro-Touring.com is very informative regarding handling components & in-depth info.

 

[turbofish38]

so I am going this route:

Savitske Classic & Custom

Gary correct me if I'm wrong but that 800 series gearbox has the same specs as the stock FE3 box on our cars. IMO I think you'd be throwing away money unless you need to replace your gearbox for some other reason. It would be interesting to see what their claim to better feel is when comparing their box to the FE3 box. I've always thought pressure was a fuction of the PS pump? I'm aware of what spool valves do but like I said it appears that they are using the FE3 guts.


IMO the best bang for the buck in making a G-Body handle are the wheels and tires. All those fancy hard parts won't do crap if the car doesn't stick to pavement. Just follow the evolution of muscle cars through the years. Hang some 15" wheels and P255 tires on a new C6 Vette and I bet it doesn't handle any better than a 30 year old C3 Vette with the same size of wheels and rubber.

 

[charlief1]

IMO the best bang for the buck in making a G-Body handle are the wheels and tires. All those fancy hard parts won't do crap if the car doesn't stick to pavement. Just follow the evolution of muscle cars through the years. Hang some 15" wheels and P255 tires on a new C6 Vette and I bet it doesn't handle any better than a 30 year old C3 Vette with the same size of wheels and rubber. [/QUOTE]

A new set of tires may help a car handle but the use of auto cad during design and a better understanding of the forces that go on while a suspension is doing it's job has helped make the more modern car designs handle better than previous models. By adapting those designs into upgrades for older cars helps us. Get a copy of the bosch automotive engineers handbook and do some reading. It will help you understand yaw, pitch, ect and the functional design parameters that help a car to perform. Just by improving the camber curve and eleminating bump steer help a chasis handle better and by aligning the control arms to the chasis and the ground does wonders. If you change your cg and offset your weight percentages more to the center you effectivly have changed the handling characteristics of the car and improve overall performance. I personally prefer a 45 fromt percentage to a 55 rear percentage for overall handling and launches are better as well.:biggrin:

 

[Gary Wells]

Gary correct me if I'm wrong but that 800 series gearbox has the same specs as the stock FE3 box on our cars. IMO I think you'd be throwing away money unless you need to replace your gearbox for some other reason. It would be interesting to see what their claim to better feel is when comparing their box to the FE3 box. I've always thought pressure was a fuction of the PS pump? I'm aware of what spool valves do but like I said it appears that they are using the FE3 guts.


IMO the best bang for the buck in making a G-Body handle are the wheels and tires. All those fancy hard parts won't do crap if the car doesn't stick to pavement. Just follow the evolution of muscle cars through the years. Hang some 15" wheels and P255 tires on a new C6 Vette and I bet it doesn't handle any better than a 30 year old C3 Vette with the same size of wheels and rubber.

Eric:
I am planning on installing the Fay's 2 Watt's Linkage and the Spohn adjustable rear PT sway bar and then seeing how my car handles before I go to the expense of the shorter, more expensive, 10 lbs. less weight 615 Lee steering box assembly. I totally agree with what you state about the difference in tire & wheel dia, but I am totally in love with the looks of the 16" X 8" GTA rims and unless somebody makes an exact duplicate in 17" or 18", I am stuck with the 16". I am already running all of the normal "good handling stuff" on the car now: Bilsteins, Kirban's front & rear stock height stiffer springs, #'s 4, 5, & GNX bushings installed, Kirban's rear seat brace & lower front braces (3), SC&C stage 2 pole position fully adjustable upper front control arms along with the Howe tall precision ball joints for a 3/4" front lower, BMR fully adjustable upper rear control arms with factory 1LE rubber at the rear & the spherical bearings / bushings at the front side, Global West lower rear control arms with the good Del-A-Lum bushings at the rear and the spherical bearings / bushings at the front side, & 1" rear sway bar soon to be replaced with the above mentioned one. Not a heck of a lot left that I am aware of.
I do believe that the Tom Lee performance steering boxes are the best available, I do think that they will make a difference, maybe even a noticeable difference, but as far as $600 worth of improvement, to me it's just like the last step of a motor for blueprinting: not a lot of improvement, but if that's all that's left, can't stop without it. Definitely thanks for your thoughts & suggestions though. Anything that you think that I am missing here for suspension / handling improvements? Front sway bar will remain stock. And fwiw, there's nothing wrong with my 24K mile factory steering box now, but as previously stated, last known step to me.

 

[Gary Wells]

IMO the best bang for the buck in making a G-Body handle are the wheels and tires. All those fancy hard parts won't do crap if the car doesn't stick to pavement. Just follow the evolution of muscle cars through the years. Hang some 15" wheels and P255 tires on a new C6 Vette and I bet it doesn't handle any better than a 30 year old C3 Vette with the same size of wheels and rubber.

A new set of tires may help a car handle but the use of auto cad during design and a better understanding of the forces that go on while a suspension is doing it's job has helped make the more modern car designs handle better than previous models. By adapting those designs into upgrades for older cars helps us. Get a copy of the bosch automotive engineers handbook and do some reading. It will help you understand yaw, pitch, ect and the functional design parameters that help a car to perform. Just by improving the camber curve and eleminating bump steer help a chasis handle better and by aligning the control arms to the chasis and the ground does wonders. If you change your cg and offset your weight percentages more to the center you effectivly have changed the handling characteristics of the car and improve overall performance. I personally prefer a 45 fromt percentage to a 55 rear percentage for overall handling and launches are better as well.:biggrin:[/QUOTE]

Charlie:
I totally agree, so design, fabricate, & retail a 17" or 18" (17" preferred) exact duplicate of a set of front & rear GNX / GTA rims and I will be all over them in a heartbeat. I have already talked to marcus and I cannot run the vette hub system without going to bigger rims.

 

[Gary Wells]

OK, anything new yet on this?