how many people are using vacuum brakes?
- Thread starter the wrath
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2001
Re: manual brakes
Damn dude, you just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper.
All we want is numbers. Go find a G-body. Doesn't even have to be a turbo regal for the test to be valid. Hell, you can go grab a Monte with vacuum brakes for $500.
Run a test, brake it from 80-0 and measure the distance.
Then put your hydroboost on and run the test again. It's that simple. If your system stops sooner, spiffy.
All of your posts have just denegrated into nonesense. Of course no OEM has produced non-assisted brakes. That's not germane to this discussion. We're talking about what to replace a Powermaster with, not what comes on a new Corvette.
We're not talking about 20,000 lb trucks here. We're talking about 3600lb CARS. Again, your arguments are bunk because the situation doesn't apply. If you ever took debate in high school or college, you would recognize your every post in this thread is a straw man. You get knocked down on one point, so you create a completely new situation out of thin air and attack that.
Authority by association is also not an effective debate strategy when dealing with intelligent people. We are not impressed that you talked to somebody on Baer's tech support line for fifteen minutes last year.
Back to the basics. This entire discussion can be settled with a simple test. Run 80-0 decelleration tests on a G-body. Change out ONLY the booster for your hydroboost, and give us the results. Clear video would also probably be good to, as you have a serious credibility problem right now.
Damn dude, you just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper.
All we want is numbers. Go find a G-body. Doesn't even have to be a turbo regal for the test to be valid. Hell, you can go grab a Monte with vacuum brakes for $500.
Run a test, brake it from 80-0 and measure the distance.
Then put your hydroboost on and run the test again. It's that simple. If your system stops sooner, spiffy.
All of your posts have just denegrated into nonesense. Of course no OEM has produced non-assisted brakes. That's not germane to this discussion. We're talking about what to replace a Powermaster with, not what comes on a new Corvette.
We're not talking about 20,000 lb trucks here. We're talking about 3600lb CARS. Again, your arguments are bunk because the situation doesn't apply. If you ever took debate in high school or college, you would recognize your every post in this thread is a straw man. You get knocked down on one point, so you create a completely new situation out of thin air and attack that.
Authority by association is also not an effective debate strategy when dealing with intelligent people. We are not impressed that you talked to somebody on Baer's tech support line for fifteen minutes last year.
Back to the basics. This entire discussion can be settled with a simple test. Run 80-0 decelleration tests on a G-body. Change out ONLY the booster for your hydroboost, and give us the results. Clear video would also probably be good to, as you have a serious credibility problem right now.
Heck - I'll offer up my car as a testbed. Im alittle embarassed to admit it, but my car has been sitting since the PM and the starter went .... too many toys, not enough time. But, now that my motor is toast in my GS I've been devoting time to the Limited....Its running fine now and the brake issue is tha last item to fix before I go register it.
Red Regal T
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Re: Re: manual brakes
Hell..............I was.
Hell..............I was.
Robbie-87plz
Junior Boost-Head
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2004
PowerBrakeBob,
Just do what the guys are asking here. Shouldn't be a problem, just use 69GS400 as a test bed. Numbers talk here. Empirical data. We all love our cars, and when you come in here blasting away at whatever brakes we're using without bringing data, in short, it's a futile argument. I hope you can post your video/numbers. BTW, if someone is convinced that manual (non assisted) brakes is the way to go, slapping them with irrelevant arguments are going to help your cause. Thanks for hearing me out. Semper fi, man.
Just do what the guys are asking here. Shouldn't be a problem, just use 69GS400 as a test bed. Numbers talk here. Empirical data. We all love our cars, and when you come in here blasting away at whatever brakes we're using without bringing data, in short, it's a futile argument. I hope you can post your video/numbers. BTW, if someone is convinced that manual (non assisted) brakes is the way to go, slapping them with irrelevant arguments are going to help your cause. Thanks for hearing me out. Semper fi, man.
Re: manual brakes
1) You're now demonstrating how poorly informed you are on the issue. Try attending BG in a coule of weeks and count the cars running manuals.
2) That you know of?, or are you really sure about that?. There are alot of automakers, out there. To state none have used manual brakes in the last 33 years seems to cover alot of cars.
3) Now that's just a lame comment.
4) Tiller?, hmm, I do believe the 747 does not use Fly by wire, so in fact it is still a tiller.
5) It would have been simplier to say that the drum equipped cars have the advantage of being self energizing. But, the issue isn't about disc to drum, it's about power assist, and how much is needed.
6) They system develops the pressure, so I don't have to *leg up 1,200 PSI*.
7) Personal?, not at all, but I will debate opinions that counter real world experiences, I've had. While you're posted opinions, and sweeping generalizations, I've posted facts, with supporting refences to related materials.
8) My point exactly, I'm talking about GNs, and real data to support what I've found, YOU HAVEN'T.
9) I'm so impressed......
Have you read the July Chevy High performance Magazine?. I'll refer you to page, 88. After installing 13", and 12" rear discs on a Cavalier, the car took a foot longer to stop from 60. What do you figure they spent on that update?. So while Baer without does some good work, they seemed to have missed the ball on that set up.
Like you said the issue is GNs, and several times in your reply you took to nonsensical responses with non GN comments.
You're going to need some numbers to gain back any credibility at this point, IMO.
1) You're now demonstrating how poorly informed you are on the issue. Try attending BG in a coule of weeks and count the cars running manuals.
2) That you know of?, or are you really sure about that?. There are alot of automakers, out there. To state none have used manual brakes in the last 33 years seems to cover alot of cars.
3) Now that's just a lame comment.
4) Tiller?, hmm, I do believe the 747 does not use Fly by wire, so in fact it is still a tiller.
5) It would have been simplier to say that the drum equipped cars have the advantage of being self energizing. But, the issue isn't about disc to drum, it's about power assist, and how much is needed.
6) They system develops the pressure, so I don't have to *leg up 1,200 PSI*.
7) Personal?, not at all, but I will debate opinions that counter real world experiences, I've had. While you're posted opinions, and sweeping generalizations, I've posted facts, with supporting refences to related materials.
8) My point exactly, I'm talking about GNs, and real data to support what I've found, YOU HAVEN'T.
9) I'm so impressed......
Have you read the July Chevy High performance Magazine?. I'll refer you to page, 88. After installing 13", and 12" rear discs on a Cavalier, the car took a foot longer to stop from 60. What do you figure they spent on that update?. So while Baer without does some good work, they seemed to have missed the ball on that set up.
Like you said the issue is GNs, and several times in your reply you took to nonsensical responses with non GN comments.
You're going to need some numbers to gain back any credibility at this point, IMO.
dentmasters01
Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2004
Originally posted by Red Regal T
I'm about dependable brakes that are cheap to maintain. End of story.
I don't see what the problem is with the powermaster other than the accumulators are hard to find. If your accumulator is ok, which will last forever if you change your brake fluid regurlarly, you can rebuild the powermaster for under 50 bucks. Thats pretty cheap for good brakes if you ask me. Matter-o-fact, Richard Clark teaches a seminar at BG every year on how to rebuild your powermaster. If you guys would take an hour and watch and listen instead of just scrapping the entire system, you can have a great braking system that you understand and can rebuild cheaply. Just my 2C's
Hawaiian Turbo
POWER'D BY BUD LIGHT
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
I have vacuum brakes and wouldn't switch back, that's my personal preference. Yes, you can rebuild the PM, but what happens when it fails again and you can't stop? Granted vacuum could fail too, but it has a much lower failure rate than the PM. My .02.
By all means if you like your PowerMaster setups, then keep it!
It generates business for: insurance companies, parts houses, body & fender shops, used TR part vendors, chiropractors, doctors, attorneys, etc.... j/k
I've been running vacuum brakes since 1996! See sig.
It generates business for: insurance companies, parts houses, body & fender shops, used TR part vendors, chiropractors, doctors, attorneys, etc.... j/k
I've been running vacuum brakes since 1996! See sig.
Which is all fine and good, as long as the system is working correctly. The one stop total failure mode, is just something I'd dare say most people don't like. Having experienced that once, was enough for me.
Did you read the Mag Article where they dumped the PM, went to Vac, and drastically reduced the car's stopping distances?.
From an early posting in this thread:
In GM High Tech Mag.
A stock GN took
524' to stop from 100
319' from 80
179' from 60
Vacuum Assist dropped that to
421' 100->0
261' 80->0
150' 60->0
This suggests, at least to me, the PM isn't the best option of the two, if you want to stop the car.
crownvic96
Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2005
i'm still feeling out my vacuum brake swap that i completed on thursday but i couldn't be happier. i had the one brake application failure with my powermaster. fortunately it was in my driveway lol.
maybe i'm just weird but i feel this is one of my best mods and i've sunk MORE THAN I CARE TO ADMIT in other mods on the car in the last 90 days. the thing is this car is a daily driver. its my only vehicle currently. and this vacuum swap gives me one thing that i like more than anything else. peace of mind. i don't have to constanty think what ditch i'm going to hurl my car into in case of total brake failure.
i also like the pedal feel of this vacuum setup better than the powermaster.
with the bfg radial t/a's i have on there now the tires brake loose on the street doing a brakestand just when the old powermaster equipped brake system did.
maybe i'm just weird but i feel this is one of my best mods and i've sunk MORE THAN I CARE TO ADMIT in other mods on the car in the last 90 days. the thing is this car is a daily driver. its my only vehicle currently. and this vacuum swap gives me one thing that i like more than anything else. peace of mind. i don't have to constanty think what ditch i'm going to hurl my car into in case of total brake failure.
i also like the pedal feel of this vacuum setup better than the powermaster.
with the bfg radial t/a's i have on there now the tires brake loose on the street doing a brakestand just when the old powermaster equipped brake system did.
Lost my brakes
Only after I lost my brakes over the weekend did I begin reading this thread. Although most of the comments seem to prefer the vacuum conversion, I am still on the fence and leaning towards installing another PM as the first lasted over 18 years. My car has under 30K original miles and sees limited use.
I know that Kirban offers a rebuilt for $399 plus $75 but I also checked with Advance Auto Parts and Pep Boys today just for the hell of it. They BOTH offer the Hydro Boost as the correct part for the 87 Regal 3.8 Turbo and not the PW. From reading this thread I get the sence they are not the same! So what's with that? If I had not read this thread (i'm no mechanic), I may have just ordered the part from these retailers because they were less then Kirbans unit. But maybe only Kirban's is correct. I have seen positive comments about the Hydro Boost but does this require yet another type of "conversion" as I understand it somehow operates off the power steering pump
Only after I lost my brakes over the weekend did I begin reading this thread. Although most of the comments seem to prefer the vacuum conversion, I am still on the fence and leaning towards installing another PM as the first lasted over 18 years. My car has under 30K original miles and sees limited use.
I know that Kirban offers a rebuilt for $399 plus $75 but I also checked with Advance Auto Parts and Pep Boys today just for the hell of it. They BOTH offer the Hydro Boost as the correct part for the 87 Regal 3.8 Turbo and not the PW. From reading this thread I get the sence they are not the same! So what's with that? If I had not read this thread (i'm no mechanic), I may have just ordered the part from these retailers because they were less then Kirbans unit. But maybe only Kirban's is correct. I have seen positive comments about the Hydro Boost but does this require yet another type of "conversion" as I understand it somehow operates off the power steering pump
Robbie-87plz
Junior Boost-Head
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2004
Yes it does. The PM is an electro-hydraulic unit if I'm not mistaken. The Hydroboost is driven by the steering pump. So in essence to change over, you need to scrap the electro-pump and change it over to steering fluid run. Check out the website. Formulate your own opinion. The 84-85 GN's utilized the hydroboost setup. Can hold more boost at the line with the hydroboost I think due to it running off the steering pump rather than a vac setup. I like my vac brakes
crownvic96
Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2005
hydroboost is very much the wrong system for your car. i'm thinking they pulled up the wrong year or something because i've never seen it listed as hydroboost at our local auto parts stores.
you should be able to order a remanufactured cardone powermaster through advance or autozone in about 2-3 days. theyu sually don't have them in stock and carry a limited lifetime warranty i believe.
if you value your car as much as i value mine, i'd convert over to vacuum. thats just my opinion though.
this will be one of those controversies that will go on for the ages though.
you should be able to order a remanufactured cardone powermaster through advance or autozone in about 2-3 days. theyu sually don't have them in stock and carry a limited lifetime warranty i believe.
if you value your car as much as i value mine, i'd convert over to vacuum. thats just my opinion though.
this will be one of those controversies that will go on for the ages though.
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
BUT EVERYONE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT POWERMASTERS
We have been adding more and more applications for the hydroboost. Recently installed on a 75 Rolls-Royce, worked better than the original system. Now for the Suburbans, Tahoes, 350 ZX's Camaro's, Chevelles, Mustangs, Facel Vega, Range Rovers, Street rods, etc. Currently, there is a tech article in the July issue of Rod and Custom, and the new products section of Hot Rod. For GN's, they bolt right in, no pedal changing. Hookup the hoses, and blast off. The cars feels so much safer and faster. You can drive it like the "Dukes of Hazzard",, flat out, or lock the brakes and spool the turbo up. As the pump speeds up, the brakes lock harder. Manifold pressure is no issue, since the brake pressure comes from the power steering pump. As soon as you release the brakes, the pump goes into recirculation, and has no load on the engine.
We have been adding more and more applications for the hydroboost. Recently installed on a 75 Rolls-Royce, worked better than the original system. Now for the Suburbans, Tahoes, 350 ZX's Camaro's, Chevelles, Mustangs, Facel Vega, Range Rovers, Street rods, etc. Currently, there is a tech article in the July issue of Rod and Custom, and the new products section of Hot Rod. For GN's, they bolt right in, no pedal changing. Hookup the hoses, and blast off. The cars feels so much safer and faster. You can drive it like the "Dukes of Hazzard",, flat out, or lock the brakes and spool the turbo up. As the pump speeds up, the brakes lock harder. Manifold pressure is no issue, since the brake pressure comes from the power steering pump. As soon as you release the brakes, the pump goes into recirculation, and has no load on the engine.
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
PRICING
Pep Boys and others can only sell rebuilt anything. $400.00 plus core charge for a used unit seems high. The hydroboost was originally a Bendix design, but Bosch bought them out in 1995. They are used to stop 14,000 lb trucks using a much larger master cyl. As far as a hydroboost being wrong for a GN, Buick installed them from the factory in 1983-85. No one on this site has ever complained about the brakes on those cars!!!! Bosch cannot sell new power brake units to the aftermarket because of the existing o.e. contracts. We (POWER BRAKE SERVICE) have a special direct contract from Bosch to use the h/b for aftermarket special applications. IF Buick thought a stock Regal vacuum booster was adequate for this high performance TURBOCHARGED CAR, they would have saved the money spent on the POWERMASTER, and just used Delco vacuum boosters, which cost them about $14.00 then. They did not. The hydroboost is dead reliable, and can easily last 200,000 miles with and occasional fluid change. They can produce up to 2000psi with NO VACUUM! We have the mounting bracket to install this system, (PROVEN) on the GN's and uses the same pedal as the powermaster. It bolts right on. We offer a NEW HYDROBOOST, WITH NEW MASTER, (EASILY REPLACEABLE) FOR $485.00., PLUS HOSES. This is less than a used vacuum booster, and a 12v vacuum pump, with triple the POWER! We offer your money back, if any other system has more stopping power. You can spool up the turbo until the transmission MELTS!
Pep Boys and others can only sell rebuilt anything. $400.00 plus core charge for a used unit seems high. The hydroboost was originally a Bendix design, but Bosch bought them out in 1995. They are used to stop 14,000 lb trucks using a much larger master cyl. As far as a hydroboost being wrong for a GN, Buick installed them from the factory in 1983-85. No one on this site has ever complained about the brakes on those cars!!!! Bosch cannot sell new power brake units to the aftermarket because of the existing o.e. contracts. We (POWER BRAKE SERVICE) have a special direct contract from Bosch to use the h/b for aftermarket special applications. IF Buick thought a stock Regal vacuum booster was adequate for this high performance TURBOCHARGED CAR, they would have saved the money spent on the POWERMASTER, and just used Delco vacuum boosters, which cost them about $14.00 then. They did not. The hydroboost is dead reliable, and can easily last 200,000 miles with and occasional fluid change. They can produce up to 2000psi with NO VACUUM! We have the mounting bracket to install this system, (PROVEN) on the GN's and uses the same pedal as the powermaster. It bolts right on. We offer a NEW HYDROBOOST, WITH NEW MASTER, (EASILY REPLACEABLE) FOR $485.00., PLUS HOSES. This is less than a used vacuum booster, and a 12v vacuum pump, with triple the POWER! We offer your money back, if any other system has more stopping power. You can spool up the turbo until the transmission MELTS!
crownvic96
Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2005
what is a 350zx?
and i sure as crap know driving my car like "the dukes of hazzard" is a+++++++#1 on my list of "to do things" with my grand national
it only cost me around 250 bucks to do my vacuum conversion.
p.s. gm put vacuum brakes on the '89 turbo trans-am.
kthxbye.
and i sure as crap know driving my car like "the dukes of hazzard" is a+++++++#1 on my list of "to do things" with my grand national
it only cost me around 250 bucks to do my vacuum conversion.
p.s. gm put vacuum brakes on the '89 turbo trans-am.
kthxbye.
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
89 trans ams
Every one points to the turbo TA's. They were 2 years after the last GN. They have rear disc, a different booster, probably a different camshaft, different proportioning valve, different check valves, etc., and I will check, probably a 12v vac pump. The Syclones and Typhoons also had vacuum boosters. Guess what? the owners complain about them, too. The GN's were the fastest and the heaviest of them all, and Buick did not install vacuum boosters on their cars. There were no vacuum braked T Type or GN's built by Buick, period. Why? The GN.s have the exact brakes as an S10. S10's are much lighter than a GN. The S1o manual brake had a 7/8" wheel cyl because of the lower pressure, The power brake S10's had a 3/4' w/cyl to control the lock up on a light rear end of an empty S10. The GN's used the same wimpy 3/4 cyl as an empty S10. Why? Who knows? My question is: is there anyone out there who is actually a power brake rebuilder, or a highly trained brake mechanic on this site? Please step up with your credentials. Is anyone ready to bring in a magazine writer to do an install with a before and after stopping distance test? We will do it. We have even installed hydroboosts on Crown Vic's for the Highway Patrol to test. Is anyone out there who has purchased the hydroboost willing to talk about here?
Every one points to the turbo TA's. They were 2 years after the last GN. They have rear disc, a different booster, probably a different camshaft, different proportioning valve, different check valves, etc., and I will check, probably a 12v vac pump. The Syclones and Typhoons also had vacuum boosters. Guess what? the owners complain about them, too. The GN's were the fastest and the heaviest of them all, and Buick did not install vacuum boosters on their cars. There were no vacuum braked T Type or GN's built by Buick, period. Why? The GN.s have the exact brakes as an S10. S10's are much lighter than a GN. The S1o manual brake had a 7/8" wheel cyl because of the lower pressure, The power brake S10's had a 3/4' w/cyl to control the lock up on a light rear end of an empty S10. The GN's used the same wimpy 3/4 cyl as an empty S10. Why? Who knows? My question is: is there anyone out there who is actually a power brake rebuilder, or a highly trained brake mechanic on this site? Please step up with your credentials. Is anyone ready to bring in a magazine writer to do an install with a before and after stopping distance test? We will do it. We have even installed hydroboosts on Crown Vic's for the Highway Patrol to test. Is anyone out there who has purchased the hydroboost willing to talk about here?
PowerBrakeBob -
I suggest you contact GMHTP and ask them to do an evaluation of your system and present it in a magazine article - they did the Vacuum brake conversion test so I dont see why they wouldn't do a HydroBoost Eval too.
I have unfortunately sold my car or I would volunteer it for the conversion and If I kept my car I would probably have gone with your system for the following reasons
1) Rebuilt PowerMasters now cost nearly as much
2) If not going with a replacement PowerMaster (for stock looking reasons) I do believe your system to be superior to Vacuum
3) A rebuilt PM will still have the same eventual no-warning failure mode
Bob - you need to step up to the plate and prove your system through action and not continue trying to prove it to this crowd with words alone.
If you had done this when you first started posting about your system you probably would have made ALOT of sales as opposed to people here thinking negatively about you and your offering (for the sole reason of you preaching from a soapbox with No One stepping up who's done a HydroBoost conversion on a TurboBuick to "Back you up").
Short story - Im not exactly sure what kind of brakes my '89 Lincoln LSC had, but I experienced sudden and TOTAL brake failure cruising on a highway going 55-60mph and approaching a traffic jam....I went to hit the brakes and all I had was a ROCK - near Zero braking. I dove the car off the road ....luckily there was a sizeable grass shoulder. I stepped on the E-brake and at about 30 mph the car spun out nearly missing a road sign. I sat there for at least 15 minutes trying to regain my composeure and figure out what to do with my soiled BVD's......
.....Guys - you dont want to put you, other people, or your beautiful Turbo car in such a situation.
That is why I want Bob to PROVE to all of you that his system is a viable solution for your cars.....Then you have a CHOICE.
I will someday own another TurboBuick and it WILL NOT have a PowerMaster as its braking system.
I suggest you contact GMHTP and ask them to do an evaluation of your system and present it in a magazine article - they did the Vacuum brake conversion test so I dont see why they wouldn't do a HydroBoost Eval too.
I have unfortunately sold my car or I would volunteer it for the conversion and If I kept my car I would probably have gone with your system for the following reasons
1) Rebuilt PowerMasters now cost nearly as much
2) If not going with a replacement PowerMaster (for stock looking reasons) I do believe your system to be superior to Vacuum
3) A rebuilt PM will still have the same eventual no-warning failure mode
Bob - you need to step up to the plate and prove your system through action and not continue trying to prove it to this crowd with words alone.
If you had done this when you first started posting about your system you probably would have made ALOT of sales as opposed to people here thinking negatively about you and your offering (for the sole reason of you preaching from a soapbox with No One stepping up who's done a HydroBoost conversion on a TurboBuick to "Back you up").
Short story - Im not exactly sure what kind of brakes my '89 Lincoln LSC had, but I experienced sudden and TOTAL brake failure cruising on a highway going 55-60mph and approaching a traffic jam....I went to hit the brakes and all I had was a ROCK - near Zero braking. I dove the car off the road ....luckily there was a sizeable grass shoulder. I stepped on the E-brake and at about 30 mph the car spun out nearly missing a road sign. I sat there for at least 15 minutes trying to regain my composeure and figure out what to do with my soiled BVD's......
.....Guys - you dont want to put you, other people, or your beautiful Turbo car in such a situation.
That is why I want Bob to PROVE to all of you that his system is a viable solution for your cars.....Then you have a CHOICE.
I will someday own another TurboBuick and it WILL NOT have a PowerMaster as its braking system.
Re: 89 trans ams
1) No electric vacuum pump, I'll save you the effort, but, it only shows how you're willing to start writting before getting the facts.
2) A vast majority of the Syclone brake complaints were about the ABS units. Again, try accurately posting the facts, rather then trying to mislead folks.
3) Yep, the GNs (the heaviest of the TRs) outweight the Syclones by all of 80 lbs..
www.is-it-a-lemon.com/used-car-history/gmc-syclone.htm
3,422 lbs
http://www.is-it-a-lemon.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=69
3,500 lbs
4) Totally irrelevant to the topic at hand, your original claim is about how your system cures the poor braking, of the oem setup by just increasing the operating pressure.
5) Again, going tangent to the discussion at hand. The net is full of all sorts of experts. You might try worring more about the opinions you try to pass off as fact. That would serve you alot better, then trying to play the credentials game.
6) Nice seeing that you're finally up to a least making some effort to validate your claims. Too bad you didn't do that first, you've already shown yourself to be subject to talking first, and having lost credibility by doing that, rather then posting actual facts, in the first case.
While you've been dragging your feet on this *debate*, I've been making some slight other modes, that have yet again improved my braking ability. It'll be interesting to see what sort of numbers your come up with.
1) No electric vacuum pump, I'll save you the effort, but, it only shows how you're willing to start writting before getting the facts.
2) A vast majority of the Syclone brake complaints were about the ABS units. Again, try accurately posting the facts, rather then trying to mislead folks.
3) Yep, the GNs (the heaviest of the TRs) outweight the Syclones by all of 80 lbs..
www.is-it-a-lemon.com/used-car-history/gmc-syclone.htm
3,422 lbs
http://www.is-it-a-lemon.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=69
3,500 lbs
4) Totally irrelevant to the topic at hand, your original claim is about how your system cures the poor braking, of the oem setup by just increasing the operating pressure.
5) Again, going tangent to the discussion at hand. The net is full of all sorts of experts. You might try worring more about the opinions you try to pass off as fact. That would serve you alot better, then trying to play the credentials game.
6) Nice seeing that you're finally up to a least making some effort to validate your claims. Too bad you didn't do that first, you've already shown yourself to be subject to talking first, and having lost credibility by doing that, rather then posting actual facts, in the first case.
While you've been dragging your feet on this *debate*, I've been making some slight other modes, that have yet again improved my braking ability. It'll be interesting to see what sort of numbers your come up with.
