Entry Level tuners

[RED LS1]

I'm starting from the bottom with my XFI. I don't have any aspirations of being a "Qualified" tuner but I don't want to be the guy who doesn't dare make a change to his own program.

My car runs now and has a program in it. It has been perfected once or twice but still leaves a ton of driveability to be desired. IE, Temperature changes, after start fuel, Off idle miss and lack of bottom end/mid power due to 3200 stall converter.

I am installing the 2.0 upgrade self learn with hopes that it cleans up the program as a whole and than I can play with a few things. I mainly want to know how to control the timing (spark) table and than the Air/fuel table. Right now it appears that the timing is only at 18 or so degrees which I think is low? However I don't know where on the left side scale ( MAP KPA) is where the car is at half/full throttle?

Is there anywhere I can go to read basic beginner articles or readings? MAybe you have links saved that give good information on this stuff. I am looking at CPGnation which seems cool but it's more un relavant posts specific to other peoples questions.

 

[Turbo Loyd]

I have learned a lot about the software by reading the help files. From withing your CCom WP-XFI software click on the Help tab and select Index from the drop down menu. Your question about spark can be found in section 8.0 called "Base Calibration Tables". I got used to using these files while figuring out how to wire up the FAST system on former carbureted engine. Cal sold the XFI with a start up program, but like you said you do have to tweak the software to make the car easier to drive.

By all means connect your laptop to the XFI to observe the engine running by opening a table such as the Base VE Table, Base Spark Table or Target A/F Table , You will see where the idle MAP KPA is for idle by following the blue oval that floats over the cells the data is being taken from. Watching these with the engine running gives you a good fell for what is going on. Keep in mind that 100 kpa is atmospheric pressure, so depending on your engine's vacuum idle will be around 50 kpa or less, and for a Normally Aspirated car wide open throttle will be at the 94 kpa range depending on your inductions system.

If you do not want to read this information on your laptop Norbs has created a PDF version of this information "XFI 2.0 BETA Manual in PDF format" that could be printed at the link: http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/xfi-2-0-beta-manual-pdf-6512.html

Hope this helps

 

[norbs]

Read the manual many times, it will eventually sink in.... You must log the following terms or you will never get the cold start right...


CTS.CORR, AFT.CORRECTION, COOLANT TEMP, VE, SPARK, ACTUAL AF, O2 CORR. RPM, KPA, TPS, IAC TARGET

 

[RED LS1]

I have learned a lot about the software by reading the help files. From withing your CCom WP-XFI software click on the Help tab and select Index from the drop down menu. Your question about spark can be found in section 8.0 called "Base Calibration Tables". I got used to using these files while figuring out how to wire up the FAST system on former carbureted engine. Cal sold the XFI with a start up program, but like you said you do have to tweak the software to make the car easier to drive.

By all means connect your laptop to the XFI to observe the engine running by opening a table such as the Base VE Table, Base Spark Table or Target A/F Table , You will see where the idle MAP KPA is for idle by following the blue oval that floats over the cells the data is being taken from. Watching these with the engine running gives you a good fell for what is going on. Keep in mind that 100 kpa is atmospheric pressure, so depending on your engine's vacuum idle will be around 50 kpa or less, and for a Normally Aspirated car wide open throttle will be at the 94 kpa range depending on your inductions system.

If you do not want to read this information on your laptop Norbs has created a PDF version of this information "XFI 2.0 BETA Manual in PDF format" that could be printed at the link: http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/xfi-2-0-beta-manual-pdf-6512.html

Hope this helps

It helps a lot. I'm going to print out that manual tommorow and get reading. I believe it will have the information i'm looking for.

I get it, so 100kpa is the line where the motor switches from vacuum to positive pressure (boost) How many kpa is 5 psi, 10psi 18psi? If I know that it will clear up a bunch of question about were i'm currently at on my tables. I only had about 5 minutes to play with it today and I did see idle at 50kpa. I spent a little more time looking at the dashboard to see what was showing and I wanted to look at the tach to compare converter activity to the tachometer.

Where is a normal place for timing to be set on these motors. I'm running 93 octane and 18 psi. It's not showing any knock but Im also leary of the knock guage not working. I want to turn the boost up to 21 or 22 and tune with that.

 

[ZNix]

103.6 KPA is about 15 PSI or 1 atmosphere. 6.9kPa is 1PSI. So for every 6.9kPA after 103.6, that is 1 PSI from what I gather. I am by NO MEANS an expert at XFI systems and do not actually know if that is true. But a simple conversion factor is 6.9kPa per PSI.

 

[norbs]

You will want to aim for 25 degrees at idle, 40 degrees on cruise, 30 degrees at 5 psi boost, 25 degrees at 10 psi boost, 23 degrees at 15 psi boost, 18 at 20 psi boost no more....it depends on engine and ambient temps ,IC you may get away with more.........Your best to run alky if your fooling with those boost levels...

 

[norbs]

103.6 KPA is about 15 PSI or 1 atmosphere. 6.9kPa is 1PSI. So for every 6.9kPA after 103.6, that is 1 PSI from what I gather. I am by NO MEANS an expert at XFI systems and do not actually know if that is true. But a simple conversion factor is 6.9kPa per PSI.

197 kpa=15 psi boost, 236 kpa= 18 psi boost, 150 kpa is about 10 psi its in the boost section to see the chart......

 

[norbs]

On another note. After start enrichment is short term enrichment cold and warm-up enrichment is long term. Stock buick chips have 140 seconds for after-tstart as an example. Set the VE table warm 1st for idle then go back and do your cold start settings. The ve table should be set for wam idle in gear about adding+5% correction or so.

 

[ZNix]

See don't listen to me . I just know that 1 PSI is 6.9kPa. Going back to chemistry homework now...

nix

 

[RED LS1]

You will want to aim for 25 degrees at idle, 40 degrees on cruise, 30 degrees at 5 psi boost, 25 degrees at 10 psi boost, 23 degrees at 15 psi boost, 18 at 20 psi boost no more....it depends on engine and ambient temps ,IC you may get away with more.........Your best to run alky if your fooling with those boost levels...

Thats extremely helpful!
So basicly, I can run up to 40 degrees while running under 100 kpa on the map (cruising) ? I can't wait to see where i'm at now.
The rest makes plenty of sense. Seems i'm not far off with the 18* at full boost (WOT). I thought I was well on the conservitive end and was about to crank it up, lol.

When bringing in Alky, we'll say at 16-20psi, does it give you the advantage of bringing the timing up? How much can you run on say 100 octane and alky? or 93 and alky?
This car feels like 118-119 mph power right now at 17.5 psi and 18*. I wonder what it's got with 25 psi and more timing.

 

[norbs]

Alky is a whole different game, Razor would know more than me on it, considering he is almost in the 8s on pump gas he knows what he is doing. I would say a few more degrees of timing and 25 psi boost is possible without issues, as long as your rich enough at WOT, you have to run richer on alky 10.5~10.9 AF depending on the amount of alky your injecting.

 

[norbs]

Thats extremely helpful!
So basicly, I can run up to 40 degrees while running under 100 kpa on the map (cruising) ? I can't wait to see where i'm at now.
The rest makes plenty of sense. Seems i'm not far off with the 18* at full boost (WOT). I thought I was well on the conservitive end and was about to crank it up, lol.

When bringing in Alky, we'll say at 16-20psi, does it give you the advantage of bringing the timing up? How much can you run on say 100 octane and alky? or 93 and alky?
This car feels like 118-119 mph power right now at 17.5 psi and 18*. I wonder what it's got with 25 psi and more timing.

Considering the stock ecm has timing up to 48 degrees for cruise I think you be ok at 40. Next your going to ask what AF to run. This is my guideline.

cold start idle 11.5- 11.9 out of gear
cold start in gear 12.5-12.8
hot idle idle 13.7-13.9 in gear or out maybe low 14's
light cruise 14.3-14.5 if the motor likes it you will know if it feels stumbly its too lean.
decel 15.3
moderate accel 13.2-13.4
99 kpa=12.9- 13.0
150 kpa= 12.6-8
200 kpa= 11.9-12.2
236 kpa=11.5-.7
250 kpa and higher you will have to see what runs the best at the track/dyno but it can be from 10.8-11.5 lets just say, each combo is different. So don;t hold me to that one.

 

[RED LS1]

I can't wait to get back into the computer and see where i'm at compared to what you just posted. I havn't attacked AF ratio yet as I wanted to start with something simple like timing. I'm really glad your giving up so much valuable info as I thought it would be much harder to obtain. Hopefully this thread can be used as a resource for others as well.

anyhow, I just took the car out for a 20 minute drive. I didnt have much time as my laptop is giving me problems. Idle is 28*. My cruising timing is only 32*. My low boost is 28-29*. It's hard to look at this and drive so I decided to try the datalogger. I set it to begin at 100 kpa. I than ran into the Home Depot for 5 minutes and when I came out the laptop was all froze up!! Stupid Ebay Refurb! Drove home with no data.

First thing I want to do is crank up the cruising timing to 40 for more drivablity. Should I highlight everything up to 99 kpa across what RPM range?

 

[norbs]

You can but at 99 kpa might be too much load for 40 you may want just to do it where you are at LIGHT throttle. Keep the idle under 30 degrees though.

 

[RED LS1]

So this morining I drove to work and got the data logger ready. I set it for 100 kpa and let it rip. I was a little disapointed that it didn't log the things I wanted like inj. Duty and map and some other but I did find out a few things. My TPS is only 80%. My air Temp goes from 85 to 75 under boost and the run was in third and pulled it to 4600 rpm's.

Is there a way to go back and look at the timing from the run? Or just find where the timing is at 230 kpa and 4600 rpm's. I suppose that would work.

How do I add parameters to the logger? I want to see inj duty and some other stuff.

I was pretty addicited to cars as it is but this thing is going to consume me for some time!!!!

 

[RED LS1]

Is there a way to go back and look at the timing from the run? Or just find where the timing is at 230 kpa and 4600 rpm's. I suppose that would work.


!!!

Nevermind....Section
24.5 Overlaying Log Data on a 3D Table
But cant find how to add sensors to the logger?

 

[kidglok]

file-dashboard setup, you have to see what dash each table is using, normally it will be "dash for logging"

 

[TurboDave]

If it's worth it's money, it should be logging EVERYTHING is sees during a log session, you then pick and choose which sensors you wan to look at. At least my puney little tunerpro will do that!

 

[norbs]

If it's worth it's money, it should be logging EVERYTHING is sees during a log session, you then pick and choose which sensors you wan to look at. At least my puney little tunerpro will do that!

Dave it can log 24 items at 20 fps for 30 minutes., and actually it can log more but the logging rate starts to drop after 24 items. You need to study the manual some more! The processor speed is 3 times faster than a classic fast and dfi for comparsion.

 

[Turbo Loyd]

Here is a chart comparing the kpa to psia (absolute pressure) to psig (gage pressure). Gage pressure is what your boost gage reads, with atmospheric pressure being zero.

kpa . . psia . . psig
315 . . 46.3 . . 31.6
300 . . 44.1 . . 29.4
275 . . 40.4 . . 25.7
250 . . 36.8 . . 22.1
225 . . 33.1 . . 18.4
200 . . 29.4 . . 14.7
175 . . 25.7 . . 11.0
150 . . 22.1 . . . 7.4
125 . . 18.4 . . . 3.7
100 . . 14.7 . . . 0.0
75 . . . 11.0 . . .-3.7
50 . . . .7.4 . . .-7.4
25 . . . .3.7 . .-11.0
0 . . . . .0.0 . .-14.7