Calling All Tuners- Maiden Voyage at The Track

[TurboJoe3.8]

OK- this is probably gonna be a long post so bear with me

My Gn's mods are in my sig below

Took the GN to the track this weekend for the very first time, made six total passes- first pass with Razor's akly control blue gain knob set at 3/4- 93 octane only- boost at 23lbs- 2.75/60 BFG drag radials- 25lbs right/10lbs left air bags- no snubber- scanmaster- fuel pressure at 43lbs line off- timing 21 degrees 1/2 and 19 degrees 3/4- trans selecter in drive- left at 3lbs boost (car was trying to push thru lights!) trans automatically shifted at 5200rpms 1/2 and 3/4
60ft- 1.96
1/8 mile-8.23
1/8 mph- wasn't working on left lane
1/4 et- 12.84
1/4 mph-104.94
02 reading in high gear on scanmaster- .786
16psi in the tires
no knock

second run I let my 21 year old son make his first pass ever and he didn't clean the tires off very good- spun real bad
timing same as first run
60ft- 2.19
1/8 mile-8.62
1/8mph-85.77 (working in right lane)
1/4 et- 13.38
1/4 mph-102.84
02- .783
16 psi in the tires
no knock

I got back in for the third run
bumped timing to 23deg 1/2 and 21deg 3/4
60ft- 1.90
1/8 et-8.34
1/8mph- none
1/4 et- 13.17
1/4mph-99.80
02- .808
16psi tires
no knock

my kid got back in for the 4th run- he left soft
adjusted fuel pressure back to 38lbs
timing same at 23deg 1/2 and 21deg 3/4
60ft-- 2.26
1/8 et-8.90
1/8mph- none
1/4 et-13.81
1/4mph-98.39
02's- .806
16psi tires
no knock

I took it down on the 5th run
this time I trimmed the fuel in the chip from 128 to 118
bumped timing to 25deg 1/2 and 24 deg 3/4
60ft- 1.91
1/8et-8.20
1/8mph-86.34
1/4et-12.94
1/4mph-103.53
15psi in tires
02's- .796
no knock

Let my kid take it down next for the 6th run
left everything the same
he still left too soft
60ft--- 2.23
1/8et- 8.64
1/8mph-85.87
1/4et---13.39
1/4mph-103.96
15psi-tires
02's- .790
no knock

OK- I know the 60 ft times were bad- I think the reason that I couldn't hold any boost at the line was because I got the back brakes too hot when I heated the tires. What I don't understand is why it ran so rich even when I kept trimming back the fuel at the regulator and in the chip and it layed down on the top end ( picked up less than 18mph from the 1/8th to the 1/4). I think even with the poor 1.9 60's it should still run mid to low 12's with this combo.

Even tho I'd had the car for two years, I new at tuning this thing

what do you guys think?

Thanks, Joe

 

[AKslowNeon]

did you factor in heat soak due to the passes (if they were fairly close together). also when you pull fuel are you using a piggyback or just using the FPR (im assuming your a FI 87 setup). we had the same issue our last time at the track the car would pull great until 4th then lay down. our AFRs were low 11s high 10s (way too rich for my car) so we leaned it out using a air/fuel controller (APEXI SAFCII) to 12.3:1 @ redline (6800) when we got back to town and now the car pulls like a beast up top. also have you ever thought about getting a line lock (nice for brake boosting on the line) as well as a 2 step? cheap mods but can help out tremendously.

 

[AKslowNeon]

also what % are you running your injection at that could also be a issue with it laying down up top.

 

[TurboJoe3.8]

Ok- did some more T & T at the track:

Installed new UMI lower control arms and a ATR rear sway bar
Then,
I took Razor's advice and lowered the alky turn-on point to the 12 o'clock position. Best run was a 12.55et, 109.41mph. 1.88 60 ft, .753 o2, then the rain came and washed everything out.

Went back Friday for some more T & T

added more fuel in the chip- locked the converter in 3rd gear- 0psi in the left air bag and 30psi in the right air bag- car turned a new best :wink: - 12.31et, 110.58mph, 1.69 60ft, .771 o2, 22 lbs boost, timing 25 deg 1st/2nd, 23 deg 3rd/4th - left the line with 5lbs of boost and 14lbs in the bfg's, 93 octane w/alky and no knock- also with 3/4's of a tank of gas!

I think with only 1/4 tank of gas and a line loc, and the rear brake shoe/s10 upgrade installed- a higher boost launch (10psi) should get it to the lower 12's/ high 11's! :biggrin:

 

[pacecarta]

my combo was very similar 133k stock unopened but no stretch just a duttneck , you should find theres a little more than just breaking 11s with that TA49 with razors kit .
time in sig was done before stock cam wiped a lobe

rethink the 1/4 tank thing youll need the weight to keep the traction
, at your mph of 110 (bTW nice mph so far ) with a better 60' and 3/4 tank and at 3640# heres what mine ran

1.60 4.736 7.47 89.4 9.855 11.888 110.43

on 26" MT et street radials 255/50 16 in D , locking from line

 

[TurboJoe3.8]

Paul, thanks for the reply- both your cars are quite impressive!

I will rethink the fuel in the tank- thank you.

I know that this car has more left in it- and I really appreciate the good advice from the really great tuners like you. Being an old Mopar muscle guy, these turbo cars are a whole new ball game- and this old dog is finally starting to learn the 'new tricks'.

Comparing my complete timeslip to yours (when our combo's were similar) I see that I still have a ways to go.

My slip:
1.69 5.03 7.84 87.75 10.27 12.31 110.58

on BFG Drags 2.75/60x15 in D, locking around 80mph

 

[pacecarta]

your top end now looks good , real good for 22 psi

take your time ,watch the tune

for the 11.88 110 run i was at 25psi and timing was 27/23
and running methanol in the tank ,

 

[TurboJoe3.8]

Paul, I was wondering what you boost was with that combo, thanks. Do you remember what you fuel pressure at the regulator was with that combo? Mine is at 43lbs line off (Eric's recommendation). There is one more track t&t in two weeks, and I was thinking about going back and bumping the boost up to 25lbs- my TT chip is maxed out, I can't add any more fuel or timing at this point( I also have straight meth in the tank). Now, will upping the boost to 25 make a big change in the tune? Thanks, Joe

 

[pacecarta]

i never mess with FP regullator , set at 42 static , all changes made in chip

maxed with chip may have to do with what boost it was burned for , you need to know what your inj duty is at the high rpm to know if you are truly maxed , you shouldnt be maxed on injector not at 12s

his new chip will allow you to max the injector (+or -20% wot fuel )and take timing much further (+or -10* ) and has the 1st gear fuel trim which should help you tune the bottom end

im running an older chip and had eric tweak my spoolup and add 10% more fuel to it so base of 128 was always richer than the norm incase setting got reset, better to be rich and slow than be lean and blow

upping to 25 without having the fuel could lean you enough to knock , have to do this in steps, or atleast have enugh fuel in chip to go there , and watch for signs of kr, the PAC will add alky as boost rises but unless your watching closely you wont know if its enough . you could crank the PF up to 48 and add a little boost watching the o2s

 

[TurboJoe3.8]

Ok

This chip is not his newest style chip. Ive only got a Scanmaster so far, so I don't know where the injectors are.

When he burned this alky chip for me, the boost range was 21 to 25lbs and the initial timing was 21/19- I always thought he went a little low on the 3/4 timing.

I plan to get him to re-burn the chip to his newest style this winter.

thanks again for all your help

Joe

 

[pacecarta]

depends on what your base octane was , thats what probably determined the lower timing , mine was for 93

and you really need realtime knock detection , audible and LED caspers

 

[TurboJoe3.8]

Mine was burned for 93 octane, too.... ??

I've got a Casper's knock gauge installed, too.

Do you run your car's through the full exhaust?

I've been running mine through the full exhaust, however, I have a dump tube off of my downpipe and was wondering if opening it would make any difference.

Joe

 

[pacecarta]

hooker dual aerochamber from summit and a 3" test w/ elec dump , saw no improvement open (stock turbo ) so it stays shut, didnt care for the noise either .

i might have asked for the slightly higher timing knowing i have no issues running 23*/20* as a default