You be the Judge

[TurboJunky]

Originally posted by top gun
pigs-flunkie, grunt cop

No axe to grind? You're writing tells otherwise. In addition, I noticed your use of grammar, spelling and punctuation isn't quite college level for you to level accusations that cops are "flunkies".

One thing regarding your "alleged" past harassment. You never mentioned what caused you to get the cop's attention when you "allegedly" were driving so poorly you had your car impounded. I wonder if you were obeying all traffic laws at the time, your license was valid, your car's license plate was up to date and it was 100% legal to be driven on public roads? I'm betting something was amiss or were you singled out of the sea of cars for no reason whatsoever?

 

[TurboJunky]

Originally posted by toddmingnworld
Damn I had a feeling this topic was gonna generate the some interesting thoughts/opinions...

TurboTer,

Maybe I should be honored but I'm not and you wanna know why because they have no busy pulling me over for no just
reason no matter what the cause (Admiration of my car or not)

TT/A1233,

Also did I mention in this that I took my seat belt off to grab my wallet for my license after the cop asked for my info, insurance & other crap and I said you saw me take off my seat belt right? The cop said and I quote "I don't care if you wanna kill yourself thats you" When he said that I knew right off the bat these guys were shady...In Michigan, correct me if I'm wrong now, did they not pass a seatbelt law that they can pull you over and ticket you for just this, but this one cop didn't car...It's clearer than day what these a$$clowns were up too....It is so many damn laws out there not all of which make sense they can use to support the the reason they wrote a citation....Whether I would have lost or not really isn't the point...

The fact of the matter is the underlining reason they pulled me over was not legit. I was not drunk, speeding & doing any of those other things that some people do and he pulled me over for tinted windows....C'mon now.....Every cop in my City know I own that car for pete sake they had in their impound at one point when the damn thing was recovered and not one has ever bothered me about tinted windows & I pass cops State & local everyday....(Their's a state police office right off of 696 & coolidge hwy not even 5 minutes from me)

I understand to some degree though why your taking up for your boys in blue but I'm sorry if you wrong you wrong & they were just that.

Todd


Long live the GN!!!

Todd,

I'm still not clear as to why they stopped you in the 1st place. Was it the window tint? If it was, then that's a very legitimate reason for a traffic stop. I've had many people tell me the same thing; "I've been by many cops and they didn't stop me" or "I've been stopped 3 times and he never said anything to me" or "I've had this 3 years and haven't been pulled over". All I can say is that some officers don't have an issue with window tint, some don't think it's illegal, some are lazy and others may be en-route to a call and can't make the traffic stop. Those are just some possible reasons.

In fact in my police academy the traffic law instructor taught the class it was LEGAL to have 35% tint on the front side windows which was totally wrong. I knew it was illegal since I got a ticket for it in 1984. No matter how you feel about the law, it's currently illegal to have window tint on the driver's or passenger's front windows and the law isn't uniformly enforced, but if you get stopped for it please don't blame the officers (it's kinda like a burnt out license plate light, some stop cars for that but I never will). Some officers use that violation to initiate a stop so they can check the interior of the car and/or occupants...they're digging. Now if they had a crappy attitude that's a seperate issue regarding their [lack of] professionalism. When I write those I make them an "equipment violation" which gives the owner the option of removing the tint with no penalty whatsoever, or paying the fine, keeping the tint and risking another ticket. The state troopers in my area write tint violations as "vision obstruction" which is expensive AND a 2 point moving violation....OUCH!
Yes, you can be stopped for not wearing your seatbelt. I've stopped a few people who when I approach the car don't have it on and asked the same thing. When they say "I just took it off to get my papers" I always give the benefit of the doubt to the driver. If the ticket's written just "no seat belt" it doesn't show on the driver's record and in fact had court recently for a few seat belt tickets (I gave breaks on moving violations and wrote those instead to keep the driving record clean). When the judge asked if the driver had it fastened while the car was in motion I was 100% honest and told her I couldn't remember. The citation was immediately dismissed and that was that. I'll never lie under oath which is more than I can say about some defendants I've seen on the other side of the table. We don't get docked for losing tickets, nor do we win a toaster for writing a bunch either .

Like I said in an earlier post, if you feel the laws are unfair and need revision, excercise your rights and contact your state lawmaker.

If you're interested, my offer's open to come out and see things from the cops perspective in south-east MI. PM me if you're interested.

 

[Rollin]

Within this thread lies the value placed upon civil servants by some of you. I see alot of disrespect and immaturity. IMHO Therein lies the root of the problem. It's okay to disagree but please do it in a constructive manner, some of you guys I know for a fact would be aligning themselves with TT/A1233 if their Buick were stolen and he had jurisdiction, so don't kid yourselves your noses would snap if he took a hard left. A side note. I have a proclivity for owning high line luxury cars and if your a minority such as myself(Native American) it kind of makes you stand out. Needless to say I've had my share of encounters with Law enforcement. I've learned 90% of the time if you treat officers with respect you get it back. If not follow the proper procedures to ensure that there is a paper trail illustrating your grievance with the offending administration, just remember every supervisor has an immediate supervisor simple as that. Now quit the name calling and play nice...

Geoff

 

[onefastjackass]

TT/A1233 is that you're car doing a burnout under you're name?If so it dosn't look like you are at a sanctioned racing event.

So did you write youreself a ticket?? LOL

This thread kills me the cops think they have a right to do anything even if it's harrasment.And the citizens think they shouldn't ever pull them over for anything.

You guys have just summed up what is wrong with society and why the people and the cops don't get along.

Now how do we fix it???

 

[gn85]

Not sure who's side I'm on...

I had to think about this from several stand points and I think I'm standing on both sides of the fence.

First off to toddmingnworld,

I'm not sure exactly why you were pulled over, but it sounds like your complaining that police just pulled you over, just to check out your car. Been there, done that. I'm thinking back to a time that a county officer pulled me over. I knew I wasn't speeding because my radar detector sniffed him out MILES away. He asked for my license and registration. I had my seat belt on... showed him that I was taking it off to get my registration. I was respectful with him at all times. Naturally my first question, why are you stopping me?? He said because I didn't have my headlights on. Well, at that time I immediately indicated to him what time it was and asked that he concurred. Knowing that the law in MD says you must have your headlights on 1/2 after dusk and up to 1/2 hour before dawn. I was still within the correct time frame, it was a clear day. The only thing I could think of was that I had my parking lights on, which I like to do to keep my car visible during the daytime. (I have a black car and truck, I know they don't stick out too well sometimes). Then the first question out of the officers mouth.... "They only made these for a few years?" Knew right then and there this was more for checking the car out. A little more chit-chat about the car... he ran my plates and info, all was clean so he came back and said "Nice car, have a nice day". In this situation, respect and civility came through. Was I doing anything illegal, no. Does an officer have a right to pull me over for chit-chat, no. Could it be that he was just checking to make sure the car wasn't stolen?? Maybe. But still, no harm, no foul. Had an excuse to be late picking up my g/f.

Now, here in Germany... it's a bit of a different story. Police DO have the right to stop you for NO REASON WHAT-SO-EVER. I don't have the law book in front of me, although I can easily, but they do have the right. If you're driving back from a club, show NO signs of drunk driving or anything, car is perfectly in order, they can STILL stop you. Now.. for those of you that will say "HARASSMENT". I can tell you, I've only been stopped one time since being here... and that WAS for speeding through town. I'm the first to admit it. The cop pulled up in front of my apartment (when he caught up with me). I got out of the car he asked the typical questions (drinking, etc). Even gave me a breath test (came back negative). The cop didn't write me a ticket, suggested I be careful next time and that was that. Once again, respectful, polite and no problems when I should have had problems. BTW, I was doing about 80 k/h in a 50 k/h city zone. That's grounds to lose your license for a few months here.

Anyways, to make a long story longer... this is a really interesting conversation. I think TT/A has some good points about who is to blame. I think Rollin has some good points of conducting yourself when dealing with police. I think toddmingnworld is understably unhappy with being disturbed just for a chit-chat. Let's just all remember there are ways to conduct yourself that will yield the best results for everyone. Which leads me to Ter's comment about the Nazi's. TT/A, you have a full right to take that one personal. Agreed, absolutely uncalled for.

OK, that's enough of writing a book. Let me go back to surfin'.

 

[TurboTer]

Originally posted by TT/A1233
That Nazi comment is totally out of line and down-right uncalled for to compare me (or other domestic law enforcement officers) to Nazi Germany. In fact it's pretty phucking sick. A retraction for that comparison is in order.

You consider them BS tickets but they're a helluva lot better than non-BS tickets like MOVING VIOLATIONS. Geezus, the vast majority of tickets I write are for equipment violations and I choose to make them waiveable so no one will be stung financially. That means if you correct the problem within 14 days (the max allowable-which is my choice as well) then the whole thing goes away with no court appearance and no record the stop took place. Now you're telling me that's "terrorizing" someone?...give me a break. Quotas are illegal but our bosses expects us to write a few traffic tickets, it shows productivity just like any other job. I could write expensive moving violations and put points on driving records but I choose not to unless someone does something blatant, dangerous or cops a crappy attitude and EARNS a ticket. The taxpayers of my county don't want me wasting gas in a patrol car doing absolutely noting and as far as I'm concerned writing "sign off" tickets doesn't penalize ANYONE, what's the down side? My bosses are happy, the motorist is happy (no fine/no points), their vehicle gets back into compliance with the law and I'm [as you put it] just doing my job.

There's a lot of stereotyping going on here, otherwise known as hypocrisy. I invite ANYONE here to come ride with me and witness with their own eyes just how much I "terrorize" the public. If you can't (or won't), check with your local department. Don't be so naive to paint the entire law-enforcement community with one broad brush and be so narrow minded. Look at both sides of an issue and educate yourself before making such uneducated judgments. I talk to the public the way I'd like to be spoken to if the roles were reversed, I can't say that for some cops. In a stressful situation that may change but there's times control must be established, so be it.

I'm no hypocrite, I've done dumb things myself. Some before getting hired, some after and I paid for it. I was bitter at first but after clarity set in I had to ask myself who's fault it actually was and who caused the problems. The answer was pretty clear.

I'm sure everyone in here's a taxpayer. Would you prefer your cops do nothing all day and let motorists drive how the hell they want, never renew their license plates, let their insurance lapse, drive with broken windows & neon lights plastered everwhere with their thumpers pounding the pavement at all hours of the day and night and basically do whatever they want to their cars? Yea right.....

Here's a few questions I challenge anyone here who's blasting me:
Look back at your last police contact and what caused it. If you got into trouble was is legitimate? Did you in fact do something you shouldn't have been doing? Who's fault was it really that you were speaking with a police officer?

First off TTA, I never compared you to the Nazis. The vast majority just took orders, and a lot were good people, but they still were held responsible after the war. If there was a law stating you had to kill the third baby if we had a two child only law like China, would you enforce that too?

You say that the vast majority are for non-moving violations, but why? You'ld rather ticket someone with neon around his license plates than someone speeding in a school zone? Your priorities are messed up. You can defend it all you want, but you ARE terrorizing citizens by writing these BS tinted window tickets, and should be out of a job. Of course your bosses are happy that you write them. Saddom was happy when some Iraqis showed resistance, but does that make it right? And before you ask, I'm not comparing you to Saddom.

As a taxpayer, would I prefer you do nothing? Of course not. I'm not an anarcist. You should mainly respond to calls of violence, like robbery, shootings, domestic violence, etc. On the road you should pull over OVERTLY wreckless drivers, speeding OVERTYLY, etc. Broken windows, neon lights, sterios blasting is perfectly fine. If you ticket for that you should be out of a job. Those who have neon or tint are good people. STOP terrorizing them. You have made more cop-haters than anyone one the other side ever could have.

My last police contact? Hmm. Can't remember. Doesn't happen too much around here. The cops here are good people who don't abuse those that pay their salary.

All in all, I'm not anti-police like a lot on this board. I don't call anyone pigs or anything like that. Police are very much needed. To stop the REAL criminals.

 

[GeneralB44]

If I were you, I'd be happy to make a friend on the force. Could come in handy, especially if he happens to be a little crooked. Maybe he was a punk to you when first stopping you b/c he thought it might be stolen, or you might not be as appreciative of the car as you could be. There are plenty of people who get mad when you even just tint windows on a collectible car b/c it's no longer original.

 

[TurboJunky]

Originally posted by onefastjackass
TT/A1233 is that you're car doing a burnout under you're name?If so it dosn't look like you are at a sanctioned racing event.

So did you write youreself a ticket?? LOL

Nope, not my car. Thought the photo was cool so I used it as my avatar.

 

[TurboJunky]

Originally posted by TurboTer
You say that the vast majority are for non-moving violations, but why? You'ld rather ticket someone with neon around his license plates than someone speeding in a school zone? Your priorities are messed up. You can defend it all you want, but you ARE terrorizing citizens by writing these BS tinted window tickets, and should be out of a job.

You have your right to your opinion which makes this country great. However it's obvious you've never ridden in a police car for any length of time. When you're cruising around no one speeds, runs stop signs, red lights and everyone's doing 25 in a school zone. Only once in a blue moon will someone do something totally stupid around a marked police car and trust me, they get their 15 minutes too.

It's not like driving a regular car when you see people driving like crap every time you turn your head. Everyone's on their best behavior until you're out of sight so moving violations aren't always apparent.

 

[whitehot84]

Originally posted by TurboTer
You say that the vast majority are for non-moving violations, but why? You'ld rather ticket someone with neon around his license plates than someone speeding in a school zone? Your priorities are messed up. You can defend it all you want, but you ARE terrorizing citizens by writing these BS tinted window tickets, and should be out of a job. Of course your bosses are happy that you write them. Saddom was happy when some Iraqis showed resistance, but does that make it right? And before you ask, I'm not comparing you to Saddom.

Broken windows, neon lights, sterios blasting is perfectly fine. If you ticket for that you should be out of a job. Those who have neon or tint are good people. STOP terrorizing them. You have made more cop-haters than anyone one the other side ever could have.

I believe if you check you will see that the laws were made by the legislature of that state. This policeman didn't make them but he has sworn and oath to uphold them. It sounds to me like you have a boner for authority figures. What I got out of his post was that he would rather write a non moving violation ticket than cost someone points and money.
On another note, when I'm sitting at a light and some azzwipe with a 50 dollar car and a 1000 dollar stereo pulls up with this thing pumping hundreds of decibles, I want to get out and shoot his POS sound machine. Now who would be wrong here?

 

[Two Lane]

Originally posted by whitehot84

On another note, when I'm sitting at a light and some azzwipe with a 50 dollar car and a 1000 dollar stereo pulls up with this thing pumping hundreds of decibles, I want to get out and shoot his POS sound machine.

Now who would be wrong here?

Ask for a trial by a jury...you'll walk!

 

[blackshoebox]

Originally posted by whitehot84

On another note, when I'm sitting at a light and some azzwipe with a 50 dollar car and a 1000 dollar stereo pulls up with this thing pumping hundreds of decibles, I want to get out and shoot his POS sound machine. Now who would be wrong here?

...LMFAO. I think you would be, but then again there is a such thing as civil justice, although it usually will get you in more trouble then its worth.

..I think the bottom line is, not everyone see's eye to eye on how laws should be enforced and who should enforce them. Its an endless, too sided arguement, both sides with valid points. However, the civilian never really has the upper hand since, they can't write tickets and put people in Jail and justify it...

 

[gn85girl]

Gee, guys

Man, tempers've flown high here.

Ter... I read a couple of your posts so far and I have an honest question (not trying to be an b.....) are these really your opinions or are just trying to piss everybody off with your anarchy crab? I mean honestly, who would like to live that way and be scared that the next stronger guy will blow your head off??? And even if you didn't quite mean it, the nazi thing was totally out of line and take that from somebody who has to live with such a history.

As for me and the ORIGINAL question, I don't think the police was right here if it really was because he needed someone to chat but he could have had numerous valid reason why he did it. Nobody wants to be harrased by the police but I appreciate police pulling people over even for minor things.
I agree , they are doing their job in protecting the laws that all have good reasons for being in place.
Quite the opposite, when I drive down the road and some a.. is doing sth outrageous I would like police to do more. Sometimes I get the feeling they are not doing enough to protect me and my property. (no offense)

I appreciate them being out there for us and dealing with people we don't want to deal with, and just because we did sth unlawful in any form we shouldn't condemn them. Or you would them rather just pull over a certain group of people with certain looks or what?

Wouldn't want to live in any country without police bound to the law that were made by the people they are protecting.

That's it.

 

[FastGN007]

I don't think the police were right in this case either. BUT... You need to be thankful that they liked your car. I am at college in Indiana and one night my buddy and i were pulled over. I do not know why we were pulled over, but it was 1:00 am and my friend was a 6'5 African American. Next thing i knew, i had two more cop cars drive up. They pulled him out of the car and were searching him. Then the cop that pulled me over threw my friends keys on my trunk lid (which was recently painted). I became very angry and turned around and started shaking my head. So then i was pulled out of the car and searched because "i was looking towards the back of the car and was hiding something from the cops" so then i told them that it was wrong to pull me over for nothing and wrong to throw keys on my trunklid. And then they started talking bad about the Grand National. After 30 minutes of being harrassed i was allowed to leave. It was complete B.S. The scratches in the trunklid weren't deep so i am going to have my brother buff it when i go home in 2 weeks. But i would rather have cops that respect my car than ones that think it is an old black monte carlo. I hope none of you ever get this kind of treatment by the police.

Scott

 

[onefastjackass]

Originally posted by TT/A1233
Nope, not my car. Thought the photo was cool so I used it as my avatar.

So you are using a photo of someone doing an illegal act as you're avatar. And you call youreself an officer of the law.

 

[toddmingnworld]

TT/A1233,

Sent you a PM....BTW yes they said they pulled me over for tinted windows but said shortly thereafter "Do you know this is a high theft car". It just doesn't make sense to me. I agree with what you said though they certain cops will ticket you for it but others will not which IMHO not following the law...Law is Law right? If you are going to enforce a law then do it, if not then don't...Some do and some don't & I don't think this is acceptable...Why make one person pay when you have plenty others violating the same exact law & they ride free? If you punish one punish them all..If you leave one alone leave em all alone....

I just don't know anymore...I run across really nice, I mean really cool cops & then I across these guys....It's like night & day...

Todd

 

[top gun]

Originally posted by TT/A1233


drive with broken windows & neon lights plastered everwhere with their thumpers pounding the pavement at all hours of the day and night and basically do whatever they want to their cars?


[/B]

I heard from a local guy that the TTA you drive has some kind of strobe light or neon lights on the bottom.

Is this true?

 

[top gun]

Originally posted by TT/A1233
No axe to grind? You're writing tells otherwise. In addition, I noticed your use of grammar, spelling and punctuation isn't quite college level for you to level accusations that cops are "flunkies".

Well it looks like your argument has just run out of ammo, you have now resorted to picking apart grammar.

 

[Rollin]

Topgun:

I heard from a local guy that the TTA you drive has some kind of strobe light or neon lights on the bottom.

Is this true?

So what if it is? Are you trying to make a point?

Topgun

Well it looks like your argument has just run out of ammo, you have now resorted to picking apart grammar.

He is just stating the obvious. Here's a hint if your trying to make a point. Bring an intelligent argument rather than refering to someone as a "Pig" or "Flunkie" your more apt to be taken seriously.
As far as "Ammo" it looks like he made his point while your left trying to initiate descension about strobe lights and grammar.

 

[TurboTer]

Originally posted by TT/A1233
You have your right to your opinion which makes this country great. However it's obvious you've never ridden in a police car for any length of time. When you're cruising around no one speeds, runs stop signs, red lights and everyone's doing 25 in a school zone. Only once in a blue moon will someone do something totally stupid around a marked police car and trust me, they get their 15 minutes too.

It's not like driving a regular car when you see people driving like crap every time you turn your head. Everyone's on their best behavior until you're out of sight so moving violations aren't always apparent.

Nope, never have (and hopefully never will, lol). I do know though that they command respect. Nobody does anything wrong in their presence. It's an awesome feeling, and I'm sure it can give a person an ego. Do you hide to get moving violators? Like I said before, I only oppose BS laws. Others are needed and so are the police to enforce them. Pay is also too low. BTW, just out of curiousity, are you a city cop or a trooper?