XFI: New motor-will not start.

[turbobitt]

Huh, would you be able to take a snapshot of the table so I have it for reference sake.

I will be calling fast tomorrow and seeing what they say about their sensor calibrations. Will let you know what I find.

What does your sensor look like?
I will have to take the snapshot tomorrow.
AG


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[turbobitt]

This is my AEM 5 Bar calibration table. Note that any particular brand sensor will have its own calibration table and are not all alike.
AG.

 

[karolko]

Hi Allan,

this is what my 5 bar sensor looks like.

looking at your graph, it appear that the only thing you changed is your X Axis voltages. did you just independently apply pressure and record voltage like we do to other analog sensors to calibrate them?


Adrian

 

[turbobitt]

Hi Allan,

this is what my 5 bar sensor looks like.

looking at your graph, it appear that the only thing you changed is your X Axis voltages.
Can I assume that your tps voltage range is .49 to 4.49v? Is that how you changed your scale? or did you actual put pressure to the sensor and record the voltages at different points?


Adrian
View attachment 237134

You lost me. The TPS output voltage has nothing to do wit the map sensor. The map sensor gets a 5 volt reference signal, a ground, and a sensor wire going back to the XFI and with the AEM sensor, a full range output of 0.5 to 4.5 volts. Note that some sensors use 0-5 volts, 1-5 volts so its dependent on the sensor manufacture. The sensor in your picture looks a lot like an AEM sensor but I can't positively confirm. The AEM sensor has a really nice calibration sheet that's downloadable from there website so if you get the calculations right you can cross check the voltages vs. MAP. To change the X axis scale you just need to double click on the number and change it. The XFI software will often times round it to some value so although I may type in .5 volts it will display .49 for example. These are the values I used for the AEM sensor and were calculated based on the linear values I was able to input in the X axis. As you can see the X values are equally spaced or as close as the XFI would allow me to input.

Volts Metric
0.50 0.00
1.08 73.63
1.65 147.32
2.22 222.38
2.78 293.40
3.35 368.44
3.92 440.77
4.50 515.75

Further info on this sensor on link below.
http://aemelectronics.com/files/instructions/30-2130-75 Sensor Data.pdf
Note that the AEM data doesn't conveniently have the same X values in there graph because they have more than 8 data points but still equally spaced(linear) points.

I'm also very critical on the calibration and double check against a calibrated gage and a pressure source. At least it gives me some confidence that the pressure ranges are reading correctly. The tune of your engine depends on this reading correctly and should not be treated with some casual carelessness or false trust in unconfirmed data.
AG.

 

[karolko]

Hi Allan,

I was hoping you did not read my stupid post about TPS voltage, that was a 5am brainfart I must admit it made me sound stupid, I realized what I had said shortly after but was away from the computer to edit my post.

I'll look at the sheet from AEM and let you know what fast has to say...once I get a hold of them.

Adrian

 

[Reggie West]

OK dumbass question. Why not try the 3 bar MAP first and see if it runs? At least then you will know where to concentrate your efforts.

 

[karolko]

not a dumbass question, but I sold all my 3 bars last month FML.

Spoke to FAST and they told me that the FAST 5 bar needs a 12V input and a the signal output is a 5 volt... guess what I have running to it... 5 volts

AHHHHHH hopefully that fixes everything.

 

[Reggie West]

This must be some monster combo to need a 5 bar map.

Sounds like you are getting it solved.

 

[bison]

The tune of your engine depends on this reading correctly and should not be treated with some casual carelessness or false trust in unconfirmed data.
AG.

Knowing this you would be surprised at how many are wrong.


BPE2013@hotmail.com

 

[turbobitt]

not a dumbass question, but I sold all my 3 bars last month FML.

Spoke to FAST and they told me that the FAST 5 bar needs a 12V input and a the signal output is a 5 volt... guess what I have running to it... 5 volts

AHHHHHH hopefully that fixes everything.

Sounds like your on the right track. Once you get the 12V input the key on map should look better. You would be doing yourself a favor by verifying a few points like 15,30 and 45 psi with a known good gage to give you some confidence on the calibration.
AG


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[turbobitt]

Hi Allan,

I was hoping you did not read my stupid post about TPS voltage, that was a 5am brainfart I must admit it made me sound stupid, I realized what I had said shortly after but was away from the computer to edit my post.

Adrian

No worries , we all have those moments..
AG


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[karolko]

Knowing this you would be surprised at how many are wrong.


BPE2013@hotmail.com

Agreed Bison, that is why I am trying to make sure everything is 100% okay. I am a little pissed that this was not made clear to me when I bought the 5 bar from FAST and it was not written in their instruction sheet included with the sensor.

Makes me wonder sometimes...

Will hook it up to 12V, put a gauge on it and see what I get.

Adrian

 

[karolko]

Now I am getting really frustrated

I fixed the MAP sensor, verified that everything is 100% with the map sensor at different ranges so I now know that this is not an issue.

Started it up, and again, the bitch fires, runs for a second and stalls.

No matter what I do, it will not stay running.

Can someone please look at this datalog and tune and let me know what's going on?

Can this thing be dying because it gets to 10.xx A/F? or is this another problem?

I can't see it being a cam sync issue because it fires up and humms good, it's got fuel pressure and spark (obviously). what am I missing here?

Adrian

 

[turbobitt]

Looking at the log and see nothing that sticks out but you really don't have enough parameters. Having the cam sync would help. If you don't mind, I have a few comments on your tune.
1 - My opinion, to much resolution in the vacuum cells.
2 - Cam sync should proceed cyl 6, not 5 as you have it.
3 - Should uncheck the Dwell override table under XIM/EZ-LS parameters
4 - If not using the traction control features, should turn them off and disable them
5 - May want to recalibrate your TPS. Looks like yours only goes down to 3% and that's where your min idle TPS setting is at.
6 - Look at your throttle follower table. Should set the min value slightly below the actual crosshairs while running so that the IAC can catch the rpm when the accelerator peddle is quickly released.
AG

 

[karolko]

Hi Allan,

I will use your recommendations and fix these things.

1)I agree I have too much resolution in the vacumn cells right now, but I really just want to get the thing running and keep it running. Them I will redo the fuel and spark base tables.
2) will change the cam sync to 6. there is a reason I had the thing at 5, hard to explain, but had to do with the order of injectors firing
3) I looked and my dwell over ride was UN checked. Was it checked when you looked at it?
4) where is that found? I couldn't see it anywhere.
5) I had the TPS opened up a bit thinking I could get the thing to stay running at a slightly higher rpm, but that didn't help. I will bring it back down when I get back to the car?

Do you think that I am getting too much afterstart enrichment ( 19.5% once the bitch starts running) that puts too much fuel into the engine, thus killing it? I find it kind of hard to think that the motor would stall at 9.50 A/F, but I have been wrong many times before. Thoughts on this?

I am also wondering if the IAC is infact working, but a part of me thinks that it doesn't matter since I get the same result when I have the throttle blade open or not. She keeps craping out on me.

I have the plug gap set a 0.030 right now with the XIM, so that shouldn't be an issue especially since cylinder pressures are low.

Totally stumped...

 

[karolko]

Allan, what else would you like to see in the log to get a better deduce my issue?

 

[turbobitt]

Hi Allan,

I will use your recommendations and fix these things.

1)I agree I have too much resolution in the vacumn cells right now, but I really just want to get the thing running and keep it running. Them I will redo the fuel and spark base tables.
2) will change the cam sync to 6. there is a reason I had the thing at 5, hard to explain, but had to do with the order of injectors firing
3) I looked and my dwell over ride was UN checked. Was it checked when you looked at it?
4) where is that found? I couldn't see it anywhere.
5) I had the TPS opened up a bit thinking I could get the thing to stay running at a slightly higher rpm, but that didn't help. I will bring it back down when I get back to the car?

Do you think that I am getting too much afterstart enrichment ( 19.5% once the bitch starts running) that puts too much fuel into the engine, thus killing it? I find it kind of hard to think that the motor would stall at 9.50 A/F, but I have been wrong many times before. Thoughts on this?

I am also wondering if the IAC is infact working, but a part of me thinks that it doesn't matter since I get the same result when I have the throttle blade open or not. She keeps craping out on me.

I have the plug gap set a 0.030 right now with the XIM, so that shouldn't be an issue especially since cylinder pressures are low.

Totally stumped...

I'm using my software and it has the traction control features enabled since I have traction control on my box. It may just be displaying default data and not visible to you and won't effect anything. The actual TPS set screw setting may be a factor. Your throttle follower is set really low and could cause the IAC to shut down completely and maybe affecting its reaction time to maintain idle. Could also try taking some CTS correction out to bring the O2 in check.
Looking closer, I wouldn't be convinced the map is reading correctly. Looks like its 86 KPA with engine off/key on. Should be around 98-100 unless you live in serious elevation.
AG.

 

[karolko]

I am at 3500 feet and the 86-89 kpa correlates well with what my old motor combo with a 3bar was reading. I check at 10, 15, 20 and 30 psi with my co2 bottle and it was bang on.

do you have a similar motor combo to me? Can I steal your throttle follower table to give myself some sort of baseline?

I will back off the TPS to 0%

I tried backing off my CTS correction from 10% to 5% but she didn't respond at all to the changes. Maybe I should take more out of the After start as well to bring the A/F's back up.

Adrian

 

[turbobitt]

I am at 3500 feet and the 86-89 kpa correlates well with what my old motor combo with a 3bar was reading. I check at 10, 15, 20 and 30 psi with my co2 bottle and it was bang on.

do you have a similar motor combo to me? Can I steal your throttle follower table to give myself some sort of baseline?

I will back off the TPS to 0%

I tried backing off my CTS correction from 10% to 5% but she didn't respond at all to the changes. Maybe I should take more out of the After start as well to bring the A/F's back up.

Adrian

You can try it although the follower table is highly dependent on the base setting of the min throttle opening.

I'm wondering if when you go from start to run your XIM is loosing key power. Is this the first time with the XIM ?
AG.

 

[karolko]

I am using a switched wire that stays hot in both positions, it is a new wire I re ran, and I think since I have the thing running for 1-2 seconds then it shouldn't be a loss of power with the xim.

I looked at you throttle follower, and I will try yours to see if it infact helps out my cause.

Do you think it could have been something as simple as the cam sync being 5 and not 6? could this have been the route of all my problems?


Adrian