What's your MAP values at idle with XFI?

[turbojimmy]

Yikes!..... I wouldn't run anywhere with the alky off with those duty cycles.... IMHO... it is asking for trouble......

Yes... having to up the injector size is a good thing.... What are your goals?

I have a similar combo.... and am encouraged by the direction your's appears to be headed in.....

I too have 60# injectors... but am planning on converting my single nozzle alkycontrol to dual nozzle at some point.....

I have also been wanting to try the new 79# high impedance injectors..... no ECM mods required.... but until I dry my current 60's up.... they aren't going anywhere...

I'm hoping to get the car into the mid 10s. I know I can do it with 60s and alcohol, but I'd like to be able to do it with race fuel, too. I know people like their alky systems, but it's a complicating factor for me. It's easier to tune for with the FAST, but still.....

With the previous engine, I needed to run the alky kit at the track even with the race fuel to keep the knock down. But at that time I had a single 340. I thought the double pumper would fix it, but evidently not. Now this engine has a lot more head work and a much more aggressive cam.

Even though I shouldn't be having the trouble I'm having with the 60#ers, I'm going to put 83# injectors in it to be safe.

Jim

 

[Blazer406]

Refresh my memory.... have you verified the FP is good under boost? .... like 45 psi base.... + 20 lbs boost ..... = 65 psi.... while under boost?

I agree that 65# injectors ought to be good for mid 10's on straight gas..... w/o the aid of alky..... and with alky.... they can go 9's.... just ask Grumpy or Russ.....

We had some pressure and volume issues with a in-tank double pumper..... we flowed it (car off).... battery charger hooked up..... jumped the pump out to make it run.... and put the return line into a graduated bucket.... and jacked the FP reg up to 70#...... and ran a flow test.

Do you know what your's flows?

IMHO this is a damn good idea to insure that there is an adequate volume of fuel AT PRESSURE.

Don't automatically assume (like we did) since you have a double pumper that everything is fine.... don't need to look there.... we had issues.... and that was the last place we looked......

HTH

 

[turbojimmy]

Refresh my memory.... have you verified the FP is good under boost? .... like 45 psi base.... + 20 lbs boost ..... = 65 psi.... while under boost?

I agree that 65# injectors ought to be good for mid 10's on straight gas..... w/o the aid of alky..... and with alky.... they can go 9's.... just ask Grumpy or Russ.....

We had some pressure and volume issues with a in-tank double pumper..... we flowed it (car off).... battery charger hooked up..... jumped the pump out to make it run.... and put the return line into a graduated bucket.... and jacked the FP reg up to 70#...... and ran a flow test.

Do you know what your's flows?

IMHO this is a damn good idea to insure that there is an adequate volume of fuel AT PRESSURE.

Don't automatically assume (like we did) since you have a double pumper that everything is fine.... don't need to look there.... we had issues.... and that was the last place we looked......

HTH

Yes, FP is rising 1:1. I have it set at 43 PSI. I need to bump it up a little. I'd like to figure out a way to use my Autometer sender with the FAST logging. I think it's possible, just need to rig it up. That way I can track FP with the rest of the data.

I don't know what my DP flows. It's out of a 9-second car, though. The guy moved to a cell and external pump and I bought the DP. The only things I changed were the socks and the trigger (FAST vs. the Hobbs).

I have an old SMC system that will get me by for now, but I do like to turn it off at the track and run 116.

Jim

 

[TurboV8]

I assume you pipe your fuel pumps in parallel and not series. This will give you double the volume at the pump rated pressure. If you put it in series, the pressure will go up and volume will stay the same.

Example:

54gph @ 60psi max fuel pump

parallel config: 108gph @ 60psi

series config: 54gph @ 90 psi or so

 

[S2V6RACER]

Jimmy, who did you buy your system from? I'm a little disturbed that you have had to come on the internet and put this much time in troubleshooting the problem. Seems the vendor you bought it from should have been able to do a little better since the initial problem was the startup program. I have witnessed quite a few startup programs that were out in left field when some other speed shops that do not specialize in Buicks get their hands on our stuff.

 

[HighPSI]

I'd like to figure out a way to use my Autometer sender with the FAST logging. I think it's possible, just need to rig it up. That way I can track FP with the rest of the data.

If you are running an adaptor harness, just "T" into the signal wire and run it to one of the two the EGR signal pins in the EGR plug. You will then need to rotate the plug on the adaptor harness (it's in the directions). You can also buy a harness that will send the signal in along with oil pressure if you have the appropriate sender.

If you are running a stand alone harness, just send the signal to one of the pins in the "Analog Input" plug.

 

[turbojimmy]

Jimmy, who did you buy your system from? I'm a little disturbed that you have had to come on the internet and put this much time in troubleshooting the problem. Seems the vendor you bought it from should have been able to do a little better since the initial problem was the startup program. I have witnessed quite a few startup programs that were out in left field when some other speed shops that do not specialize in Buicks get their hands on our stuff.

I bought it from Jack and he's been a great help. I post here because I like the variety of answers, and because the thread may help others who may not have great support like I get from Jack.

Jim

 

[turbojimmy]

If you are running an adaptor harness, just "T" into the signal wire and run it to one of the two the EGR signal pins in the EGR plug. You will then need to rotate the plug on the adaptor harness (it's in the directions). You can also buy a harness that will send the signal in along with oil pressure if you have the appropriate sender.

If you are running a stand alone harness, just send the signal to one of the pins in the "Analog Input" plug.

I'm running an adapter harness, but I'd rather hook it right up to the pins on the aux inputs on the "C" block. I found a thread on Innovate's site where someone used Autometer's sender for a 0-5V analog input on the LM-1. So it will work with the XFI. I already have an amplifier for my EGT so I'm going to hook them both up today.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[turbojimmy]

I did a lot of driving today and have had mixed results. I now have it where it stalls multiple times in gear with my foot on the brake. I think it might be too rich, but I'm trying to find that happy medium between in-gear AFR and in-park AFR.

I bumped the FP up to 45 PSI line-off and the injector duty cycle came down to something more reasonable, but I also turned the boost down. DC is 73% at WOT at 65 MPH, with the alky on. I'm still worried what will happen at the track at WOT for a much longer period of time, but the 83# injectors should give me some margin of safety.

I wound the wastegate rod all the way out and the boost comes down to like 17 PSI but quickly creeps up if I stay WOT. I didn't have this problem before the rebuild. On the aforementioned WOT run (about 5 seconds) it got up to 23 PSI. I think the new engine is moving a lot more air and the stock wastegate arrangement can't evacuate it quick enough.

Tonight I'm going to move the MAT sensor into the plenum and hook the EGT and the FP sender to the XFI.

Jim

 

[HighPSI]

I did a lot of driving today and have had mixed results. I now have it where it stalls multiple times in gear with my foot on the brake. I think it might be too rich, but I'm trying to find that happy medium between in-gear AFR and in-park AFR.

Like I have posted several times earlier, you need to recale the idle area to diferentiate between the two.

I wound the wastegate rod all the way out and the boost comes down to like 17 PSI but quickly creeps up if I stay WOT. I didn't have this problem before the rebuild. On the aforementioned WOT run (about 5 seconds) it got up to 23 PSI. I think the new engine is moving a lot more air and the stock wastegate arrangement can't evacuate it quick enough.

Make sure your boost table is scaled correctly if you are using the XFI to control the wastgate solenoid

Tonight I'm going to move the MAT sensor into the plenum and hook the EGT and the FP sender to the XFI.

Jim

Where is it located now? If it is in the stock location, be prepared to retune the car. The tune will be much leaner when installed in the CORRECT location

I post here because I like the variety of answers, and because the thread may help others who may not have great support like I get from Jack

Are you saying you don't need any help and are just doing this for others?

 

[turbojimmy]

Like I have posted several times earlier, you need to recale the idle area to diferentiate between the two.

I've tried that, but there is no area between the two. The bubble sits sqare in the middle of the same 4 cells whether I'm in park or drive. If it were in a different set of cells between park and drive it would be easy to fix.

EDIT: I just re-read that. I think I've been misunderstanding. Are you saying to make the scale (RPM and MAP) more granular in the lower left corner of the table? Now THAT makes sense. Sorry I was so thick about it. The light bulb just went on.

Make sure your boost table is scaled correctly if you are using the XFI to control the wastgate solenoid

I'm using a bleeder without any solenoid. The bleeder is closed and the rod is the whole way out. Not much else I can do with it.

Where is it located now? If it is in the stock location, be prepared to retune the car. The tune will be much leaner when installed in the CORRECT location

It's in the stock location now. I need to retune for the 83# injectors anyway.

Are you saying you don't need any help and are just doing this for others?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I hope posting here does help others, but I've found that while the board and the real world are filled with very knowledgable people, no one person has seen it all. Jack has been instrumental in getting my car running decently, but I've also gotten advice here that fills in many blanks. If I got all my help from Jack I'd drive him insane, so I figured I'd spread the pain. I also don't always have time to spend on the phone with Jack, even though he's kind enough to give me the time. Posting here when I have time, and others posting when they have time helps, too.

I'm off to yank my plenum.....

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Otto J]

Jimmy,I should be at Atco on sun if that helps you.
I don't want to step on Jack toes about his program,
I just assume install one of my own than start with his.

Let me know if you wil be there.We will be back down with
Tony's car sorting out a few bugs.

 

[norbs]

I've tried that, but there is no area between the two. The bubble sits sqare in the middle of the same 4 cells whether I'm in park or drive. If it were in a different set of cells between park and drive it would be easy to fix.


You could try and see if the engine vacuum drops in gear and do what Cal suggests so that your in a different cell and make that cell idle at 13.6 ish a/f in gear. It depends how tight or loose your converter is. I really don;t get much change with my setup, so i have incorporated and input as i mentioned before. You might have to live with 11.5 a/f in park to maintain 13.5 in gear. What your BPW in park at idle?

 

[turbojimmy]

Jimmy,I should be at Atco on sun if that helps you.
I don't want to step on Jack toes about his program,
I just assume install one of my own than start with his.

Let me know if you wil be there.We will be back down with
Tony's car sorting out a few bugs.

Otto,

Thanks for the offer. I'll be there on Saturday. I can't be there both days. Hopefully we can meet up some other time.

Jim

 

[turbojimmy]

I've tried that, but there is no area between the two. The bubble sits sqare in the middle of the same 4 cells whether I'm in park or drive. If it were in a different set of cells between park and drive it would be easy to fix.


You could try and see if the engine vacuum drops in gear and do what Cal suggests so that your in a different cell and make that cell idle at 13.6 ish a/f in gear. It depends how tight or loose your converter is. I really don;t get much change with my setup, so i have incorporated and input as i mentioned before. You might have to live with 11.5 a/f in park to maintain 13.5 in gear. What your BPW in park at idle?

Yeah, I might just live with it. I'm doing a 'do over' though. I just finished up the re-positioning of the MAT and the 83 lb. injectors. I'm going to have some pizza while the fuel I spilled evaporates and will fire it up in a little while.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Russ Merritt]

Jimmy,I should be at Atco on sun if that helps you.
I don't want to step on Jack toes about his program,
I just assume install one of my own than start with his.

Let me know if you wil be there.We will be back down with
Tony's car sorting out a few bugs.

There's your ticket to freedom........ You'll be glad you did.

 

[Otto J]

Yeah, I might just live with it. I'm doing a 'do over' though. I just finished up the re-positioning of the MAT and the 83 lb. injectors. I'm going to have some pizza while the fuel I spilled evaporates and will fire it up in a little while.

Thanks,
Jim

PM Sent Jim

 

[turbojimmy]

Might've been something with my old injectors. I fired it up with the 83# injectors and it's like night and day. Idles smooth, doesn't stall when I put it in gear, and it can control the AFR in park and in gear. I'll have to fine tune it, but I can tell it's better already. Maybe moving the MAT had something to do with it too?

I just can't get to Atco on Sunday, I've got to watch the chilluns. Saturday is the only day I can do it. I look forward to meeting anyone who happens to be there, though! Because of my transmission problems I haven't been to the track in almost 2 years. It'll be nice to get back out.

Jim

 

[Grumpy]

WOW is all I can say .. I am being nice oh ya.. I would have set the car on fire after the first week .. good luck

 

[turbojimmy]

WOW is all I can say .. I am being nice oh ya.. I would have set the car on fire after the first week .. good luck

Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. But even though this thread has been going on for a long time, I haven't really been spending a lot of time on it. I don't have a lot of time to work on the car so I'll do it in little spurts. With T'Giving coming up work has been slow enough that I can work on the car a little.

I also ignored the suggestions of many people here, including the guy I bought it from. Lesson learned.

Jim