What do You think of this setup?

[Lunkan]

Well, I´m sending my block to the shop thursday evening, whatever You think of it Julio

The block and crank is going to be checked and if needed, they will be machined. The block is going to see atleast a .010 overbore. The rods are going to be shotpeened. Front and center billet caps.

After this I´m slowly going to start build up the engine and chassies until next season, the car will have the following mods:
- LT1 MAF & translator
- 62mm TB and plenum
- match ported intake
- ported heads with large valves
- Comp Cams 212/212 hyd. roller
- 115lb valve springs
- hotwired Walbro 340
- #60 injectors
- ATR 2.5" x-over
- PT-61
- Duttweiler Big-neck
- 3" THDP
- TCS 9x11 3500 flash
- 3.73:1 in the rear
- QA1 rear adj. shocks
- Spohn adj. torquearm
- GW SFC´s
- welded rollbar
and of course, Julios alkykit

Well, just want to see what You guys think and reacts.

Oh, I´ve already got everything except for the injectors, pistons and SFC´s. The rollbar is going to be welded during the autumn.

 

[Razor]

Cal Hartline has ordered .005 over from JE pistons. Saves from being bored. To get a clean bore most will recommend at least .020. And you may be suprised to find that it may not need anything but a hone, new rings, reassembly. Same with the crank..dont machine unless absolutely necessary.

Depends on Machine shops.. get an honest one.. you'll do ok.

I guess you saw my girdle post..

Great talking with you last week.. glad you made it home ok.

Cheers

 

[Lunkan]

Hey Julio,
It was very nice talking to You. Too bad You lived all across the country. But I´ll look You up next time I get a chance to come to the US.

The machine shop is a really good one and honest. They have a very nive machine park, and they have a 98 Firebird Pro Stock that they race too. Ulf had his engine done at their place.

Oh, and I´m going to put a high volume timing and all ARP´s too.

 

[mark b]

Originally posted by Razor
To get a clean bore most will recommend at least .020.
Cheers

That's a bit high for a first bore unless really needed, no?
Common thinking says these blocks are too thin to go beyond '30 over, so a .20 bore first time doesn't leave much.

Agreed....if it needs it, it needs it.

Sounds like a killer setup though. I have to assume you are using ARP studs in the bottom and ARP rod bolts?

 

[Razor]

Mark, depends on the machine shop. See typically to get a fresh bore..typical rebuild scenario.. you need typically .030 if not get shawdowing from the previous bore. Hence why you see most aftermarket pistons are .030 vs .010 for example.

But our blocks its about strength.. the less is done.. the more.

Sucks to go .030 then have a cylinder mishap... you toss all the machine work away.

Hence the .005 over pistons.

 

[Lunkan]

Originally posted by mark b
Sounds like a killer setup though. I have to assume you are using ARP studs in the bottom and ARP rod bolts?

I´m really looking forward of the next season. And yes, ARP studs in bottom, ARP-rod bolts and ARP head bolts.

 

[The Swede]

Originally posted by Razor
Depends on Machine shops.. get an honest one.. you'll do ok.

Yes, they are for sure serious, if you live in a country with 9 million people and these guys runs there own Pro Stock Team and have a nice machine shop and are members in 2 of our car clubs they are absolutly serios!

http://www.spm-motor.se/bil.htm

 

[Lunkan]

Took the block and heads to the shop today. The crank was in great shape, just need some surface polishing. But the rods need some work, they tended to pinch. Everything need to be balanced and straightened, and therefor need a good bore. They also told me that it would be wise to go with a copper head gasket when doing all that I am.

The heads didn´t have that good work that me and Ulf first thought. The intake ports need to see about 10 hours job and the seats was also roughly done so 2 of the valves was black up on the shafts.

What´s going to be done is:
- rods straightened and shotpeened
- stressbore the cylinders .030
- polish the crank
- align hone and topdeck block
- angle-cut and finish up the porting and seat job of the heads
- final balancing of whole engine

 

[Razor]

thirty huh.. its a decision. Can it be honed out so you have somehwere to go in case of problem?

At least the crank didnt need to be cut.

Copper gaskets.. thats another one of those decisions. The Cometic may be a better choice.

 

[Lunkan]

Originally posted by Razor
thirty huh.. its a decision. Can it be honed out so you have somehwere to go in case of problem?

Copper gaskets.. thats another one of those decisions. The Cometic may be a better choice.

As You said in an earlier post "To get a clean bore most will recommend at least .020". I hope Ulf reads this and can explain better than me, he was with me to the shop.

They´ve been working with these things and also been racing for MANY years now. I really do think they know what they talk about.

They´re going to have all parts and match, machine, polish and balance every litte piece, so why not go all the way and put copper gaskets?

 

[broke1]

Julio would rather change a head gasket than engine(me too).Plus coppers will always have coolant push ie leaking and thats not fun.Plus more $$$ for the machine work.

Id use Comectics and go with .020 JE's unless you have some horrible scuffing.Also ProGram engineering now offers matched pistons and longer rods for Buick's.Theyre $1500usd for the package deal and you get more cubic inches.

If you go with Comectics and the ProGram rod/piston deal ill bet you come out cheaper than ifyou went copper HG's and JE's with stock rods and youll have stronger parts and more power to boot.Choice is easy.

 

[Lunkan]

Why would a copper gasket leak if You top deck and check all surfaces? It shouldn´t leak if the shop do a good job and You re-torque the heads now and then. The cost isn´t that big.

When they messured everything, they said to go .030. I asked about the strength of the block, and they said it´s no problem at all. Even here, the cost isn´t that big.

The cost is the heads that need plenty of work to be great. And I´m not a person who like the jobs half done, they´re going to have free hands.

I do understand what You guys say, but I´m willing to take my engine apart to check everything every year. It doesn´t take to long to have out of the car and back again. And I´m not that much into cruising around town. I hope You understand and respect my point of view.

 

[Razor]

Most of the builders of these Buick motors try and not go over .030. If you do .020 and have a small mistake, you may be able to fix at .030. Tho some have raced motors at .040, most of the builders I know wont mess with one unless the motor is in a 12 second car.

Putting copper gaskets make the mistake costly, becuase if the gasket doesnt blow, the piston will. If the piston blows, there will be scoring on the cylinder wall. The scoring will require boring to correct. If your at .030 and blow a piston, you throw the block away. All the machine work is lost.

If you had plenty of these motors laying around, it doesnt matter. But your in a land far far away... you need a 109 block, your going to be in trouble. I'd hate to see how much it costs to ship one there.

The more meticulous the machine shop, the more likely they will overbore .030. It is standard rebuild process. But they also have to understand its a turbo motor on a block you cant just get anywhere. Not a 350 Chevy motor you can sleeve, overbore, etc. Hence why we build them with .005 over pistons. Especially when you deck, line bore, etc... you make a mistake at .005, take it to .020 or .030 and the machine work isnt lost. .005 over may not be the best due to it be honed to that, and not having perfect cylinder walls, meaning it wont be perfectly round like what you get with .030 overbore, but it also gives you breathing room.

And you still have learning to do on tuning. This is why I write what I write

 

[broke1]

Why have to do any maitenence if you dont have to???Your car is VERY,VERY, mild for a LC2.Waste of time but its your car,time and money.

Being as MILD as your car is copper gaskets are a waste,seriously.If you heavily detonate youll hurt the rotating assembly and your block so then you can throw all that $$$$ in the garbage.Which would you rather do,pay for a $100 set of headgasket's or pay for a new engine????Easy choice.

I bet money that your machine shop told you .030 because thats the only piston listed in there catalog.Could you see any gouges in the cylinder wall???Scoring??Ridge??Anything visible??If not at least let your machinist know they sell .020 pistons and see if you can use them.

Call Julio and talk to him about copper gaskets(he ran them in his BB Camaro)My machine shop reccomend copper HG's to me too and my combo is alot bigger than yours.I went with Comectics because I want to drive and race it,not have to constantly work on it.

IMO best bet is aftermarket rods and .020 over pistons with Comectic HG's.MORE POWER AND RELIABILITY FOR THE MONEY plus you can rebild it if anything happens.With the combo youre planning,you most likely wont.

Your choice but dont say you werent warned

 

[Lunkan]

What I told the machinist was:
1. I need to have the crank checked so that I can order correct bearing.
2. I need the block and rods checked so I can order pistons. I can order .010 .020, so use minimum overbore.
3. I want the rod shotpeend
4. Check the surface of the heads.

The first thing he did when I got there was to measure the crank, it was in great condition.

Second, he took a look at the rods. They looked strong, but as USUAL with american machining, the tolerances was horrible and the rods tended to pinch on EVERY of them. They also have to straighten them. They will be very strong after a shotpeen and some treatment. But we won´t do this under .030 if You want a GOOD work.

He then took the valve springs off and checked the valves. The head work was, quoting, "typical american handcraft. They don´t understand what to do. These will need about 10-15 hours work to be good".

I don´t know what You guys call a mild car, but for me a MILD car is a mid 12 to high 11 sec daily driver. Everything below mid 11 I don´t think is a mild car. But I guess half of Your cars are mid 11 or faster.

Broke1, what is Your spec´s? I´m just curious to see what others are running.

 

[broke1]

I dont have a TTA,ive got a GN.I think mild is anything under a 70 series turbo, 3500 stall, still retaining all the creature comforts,and most importantly RELIABLE and maintence free(not talking general maintenece).At least nowadays it seems to be.My combo has all 4 billet mains,224/218 roller,1.65 rr,LT72 gtq,.030 TRW pistons(had em laying around),etc,etc.I plan on spliting my block,I have a spare ready and im going to buy a TA block soon.If it lasts,it lasts,if it doesnt oh well.I knew 1/2 way thru itd been the same cost or cheaper to go with a Stage engine and itd been more reliable.Live and learn.

I think hi 10's can be mild.Just depends on the combo and tuner.

 

[Lunkan]

Well, if it brakes, I´ll just order a aluminum block and starts all over again. I´m trusting these guys as they´ve been doing this stuff for many years and they do all the work on their 7.136s/192mph -98 Firebird.

They won´t trick me, as they´re members of our Swedish TA club, Ulf know them all, and also that I´m a boardmember of the dragrace club that they belong to.

Thanks for sharing Your thoughts.

 

[broke1]

Yes but if your **** breaks it can only be for 2 reasons,your fault or the machinist's fault.Cant go any other way.A mild combo like yours doesnt need any fancy parts besides those you already have.

People put copper headgaskets on street driven forced induction cars because they dont know any better.

I was gonna put the copper HG's that my machinist recomended till I talked to Julio,then I looked around and saw NO ONE ELSE WAS RUNNING THEM.Not on turbo Buicks any way.This isnt a Chevy engine.

Your money.Let us know how it works out

 

[Lunkan]

Ofcourse it would be my fault, that´s why my gaskets look like this: http://www.tacs.nu/forum/files/gaskets.jpg

What do You meen by fancy parts?

When You say no one use the head Cu gaskets, what do You think the big reason for this is?

How much boost do You run, how often do You floor it?

 

[The Swede]

Hi all!

Lunkans engine is fine.

As all US engines it comes with big gaps everywhere, and also in the block.

The guys who are doing the engines here has more than 30 years of experience, so stop the bull now please!

If they say that the cylinders on US cars not are straight and need be bored.30 with stressplates, that's it!
The cylinders does not have a straight line.....
I have seen it for my self! If you take a closer look on these engines nothing is correct!
Flashback in the early 80's.... me and my friend wen't to a shop that had 10 pairs of NEW 492 angle plugs for small block chevy, 1 pair didn't even had the holes for the spark plugs drilled!!!!!!

And back to the bull on the copper gaskets......

A gasket is supposed to seal, not to use as a "blow off"!

If you have that issue, you have done something wrong in your engine!

/ Ulf that went 122 with stock injectors and don't know anything..... also European record holder in Econo Gas.