Now I see why people sell these cheap. Help!

[scot w.]

ttt

anyone else?

Chris,

There can be several things causing this issue! Donnie brooks just had a WOT stumble/fall on face issue recently and he discovered that one of the spark plugs was cracked. This was found after several other parts were bought and nothing worked. New plugs fixed his....

The best and easyiest way to solve issues like this is to have someone let you swap (Known good) parts back and forth untill you find the gremlin. It saves you Money and you know their parts are good & Work!!

Hope you solve it, Please stop back and let us know what it was...

SW.

 

[boostified]

bad luck

I really hope you figure out whats going on with your car, cause mine was doing the same thing. I wish I had a scan master or something to diagnose my car. I have a gen 2 translator in mine and everything looked fine except the o2 volts were reading 0.0 I assumed it was the display only, as i checked continuity between the ecm and translator, and it was o.k. Mine detonated so bad with only 7 lbs. boost that it beat the main and rod bearings out of it. I feel your frustration. My car has been done for about 6 months , and has seen all of 5 miles on the road. Good luck

 

[pmoore4321]

I had a little scare this week also. My car has been running perfect and I decided to take my kid on a little drive around the neighborhood. Everything is going great until we get a few block from the house. I leave a stop sign and the most gawdawful rattle/knock sound radiates from underneath the car. I figure "oh well" there goes a bunch of money in a rebuild. I leave for work, unable to immediately diagnose the problem. I sweat it out all day reading various posts on this forum about everything from rod knock to cracked pistons to valve train problems. I pray for loose converter or flywheel bolts. I get home that evening, pop the trans guard plate, and sure enough a converter bolt was out 1/2".

What did I do after that scare? I grabbed that actuator rod and LENGTHENED it about three turns. As much as I like playing with this car, I know it is going to catch me slipping one of these days.

At any rate, I hope you guys get your cars running.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I have owned a GN for 10 years now, and this board and it's members have been very helpful throughout the years. I have read these posts for a long time and learned a lot, and of course read the posts detailing someone else's abject frustration with these cars, and threatening to sell the car off cheap or even destroy it. I never have posted one until now.

I regrettably have finally joined the ranks. I never before have carried on about hating this car on here in 10 years, but here I am. I am tired of fixing this car. It seems you get it right for a while, and there it is, something else is broken.

This latest episode started late last fall when the cam gear and cam sensor gear decided they no longer wanted to play nice, this being brought on by some unknowing prior owner buying nearly everything in the Kenne Bell catalog, including a high volume pump that is completely unnecessary. This additional load ate the gears.

After a cam and lifter change and basically a total top end rebuild, I get this car back together and it runs and drives great at less than 1/3 throttle. It idles smoothly (except for occasionally going up 500 rpm and back for no reason at a light) and drives great until you put your foot into it. Then it stumbles or even backfires.

Changed the MAF as the values for it seemed low and I last changed it in 2002, and wow the problem was fixed for about 3 miles. Then right back at it again. WTF?

It acts lean, but T link shows the o2 values at 746, 804, 796, and 792 when it hit 3rd. The last 3 numbers are closed loop on the T Tweak chip. The 1st frame # is from a 15 mph rolling blast. Tps was 4.75 the whole time, and LV8 and MAF were both 255, and no trouble codes showing. NO knock at all.

Boost was at 15 psi solid the whole time, hitting 15.5 right before 3rd gear, then dropping to 14.

Fuel psi is @ 44 line off, FP does rise with boost. Idle vac ~16 or so in gear, steady.

After using my scantool as well as a friend's professional engine analyzer everything seems fine, except it didn't like the secondary ignition values. I am going to put fresh wires on it and regap the plugs @ .035 tomorrow, but my gut tells me there's more to this than that.

Any help would be awesome, if someone can help me get this thing running right again, I might decide to keep it. But this BS is making a coat of paint on the GN and ebay this spring real tempting. The 2010 Dodge Challenger isn't helping, either. At least I wouldn't be constantly fixing it.

Thanks for letting me vent, and thanks in advance for any help.

I've been thru many cars in my life. Some performance and some not. Either way, they break down man. They're machines, made by man, with many moving parts. Most of them purposely built to break down. I know I know, "newer cars don't break down as much as old cars." Bull****. They all break down man. Do you want to pay twice as much for a challenger part, just cuz it's the new rave? Screw that. The ride may be better in the challenger, but how much are they? The buick's still going to be cheaper overall. You just got to do the research before you pick a part and install it, or fix it, that's all.

Keep this in mind, they ALL break down...

 

[pdzz]

Chris I'm 20 miles from Rochester, about 80 miles from Buffalo. If you make it down this way, I would be glad to take a look for you. PM me if you drive out some weekend. Things to check.... If the car never exhibited the problems before the top end was re-built, maybe something was overlooked. Grounds on the back of the pass. side head.. clean, tight? Any of the ign. module terminals hogged out during dis-assembly, or re-assembly? Cam sensor set correctly? It almost seems when you replace a componet and it runs good for a little bit, maybe a connector or something is being disturbed to correct the problem temporarly. I hope this helps, but, offer still stands. Phil.

 

[ChrisF]

Thanks guys for all of the encouragement.

Phil, I am with ya. I am going to check all of the grounds and such again, but I am pretty confident they are all good.

Someone else mentioned the cam sensor being 180 out; but no one has answered the question: Will it idle and run good 180 deg out? I heard it wont idle well at all this way, but this car idles pretty good, and drives well too, until you ask it for any kick.

I think its in the fueling somewhere. It's lean. I am going to get with a buddy and really check fuel pressures on his engine analyzer instead of driving around with the fuel psi gauge taped to the windshield.

It runs too nice at 35% throttle or less to have something major wrong, I would think.

Thanks for the offer Phil! I don't want to drive it 80 miles busticated though. I would rather catch up when it's running good.

 

[ChrisF]

ttt

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

You need to have a friend with the same car come over and start swapping parts untill you find your problem. I had the same thing and it was the ECM (computer), I would offer Pdzz (Phil) some $$ to come over and start swapping parts out untill you find the problem.
The cam sensor is easy to set if you have a volt meter.
Vortex Turbo Buick Performance look at the "Tech pictures/Instructions" area. By the way this a top notch web site, it's in my "Favorites" on my computer, refer to this website all the time.

Chuck

 

[Sal 87WE2]

I've been thru many cars in my life. Some performance and some not. Either way, they break down man. They're machines, made by man, with many moving parts. Most of them purposely built to break down. I know I know, "newer cars don't break down as much as old cars." Bull****. They all break down man. Do you want to pay twice as much for a challenger part, just cuz it's the new rave? Screw that. The ride may be better in the challenger, but how much are they? The buick's still going to be cheaper overall. You just got to do the research before you pick a part and install it, or fix it, that's all.

Keep this in mind, they ALL break down...

Yea, i keep tossing the idea of installing a supercharger on top of my 6.1L Charger SRT-8 BUT why would i blow $6-$8 for a blower when i can spend the same amount and be waaaaay faster in the Buick?! And turn more heads too

If it makes you feel any better everytime i fix or touch something on my GN something else breaks, i am soooo tired of it but i keep working on it

Whenever someone comes over and they see the GN in the garage they always ask, "Is that a Grand National?" Makes me feel good about the respect and legacy it has.

I really hope you find your problem, i know i definately have problems of my own with my Buick.

-Sal

 

[ChrisF]

Anyone want to weigh in on the cam sensor question, being possibly 180 out?

 

[vacuum 6]

Thanks guys for all of the encouragement.

Phil, I am with ya. I am going to check all of the grounds and such again, but I am pretty confident they are all good.

Someone else mentioned the cam sensor being 180 out; but no one has answered the question: Will it idle and run good 180 deg out? I heard it wont idle well at all this way, but this car idles pretty good, and drives well too, until you ask it for any kick.

I think its in the fueling somewhere. It's lean. I am going to get with a buddy and really check fuel pressures on his engine analyzer instead of driving around with the fuel psi gauge taped to the windshield.

It runs too nice at 35% throttle or less to have something major wrong, I would think.

Thanks for the offer Phil! I don't want to drive it 80 miles busticated though. I would rather catch up when it's running good.

Fueling issue, have you checked the pump's output?

Here's what I did...http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/310074-walbro-255l-hr-hp-fuel-pump.html

 

[JDEstill]

Anyone want to weigh in on the cam sensor question, being possibly 180 out?

My car idled and ran just fine with the cam sensor 180 out, but if memory serves (this was at least a decade ago) mine would get a little detonation at 12 or 13 psi boost. Getting the cam sensor set right gave me another pound or two boost before it started tickling the knock sensor. If you are really worried about it, it doesn't take very long to check...

John

 

[boostified]

My car idled fine, and ran out fine, until you opened the throttle blade past 1/2 way. Then it felt like a gorilla grabbed onto the flywheel or something. Did this twice and then it started knocking. When I tore it down, all the main bearings were trashed, along with the rod bearings. Long block is back together now, but I'm almost scared to put it back in the car. I hope some other guys have some ideas.

 

[KevinB]

Anyone want to weigh in on the cam sensor question, being possibly 180 out?

Car will idle fine. Above 1/2 throttle is when the running issue appears.

Follow the gnttype process. It's very easy to install one 180 out by mistake. I've done it before. To make sure you have the engine on the right stroke, just remove the #1 spark plug, rotate engine by hand until you feel compression coming out of the spark plug hole. You now are on the compression stroke. When the crank and timing tdc mark line up, you have tdc. Go 25 degrees and set your sensor. Very easy to check. Just go out and do this process. My money is on it being 180 out. If it's not..you have at least eliminated it as the problem.

 

[boostified]

Do you think that alone could trash the bearings like that?

 

[KevinB]

If it happens at high rpm while making a lot of horsepower it can. Not sure if it will under normal driving.

Do you think that alone could trash the bearings like that?

 

[mygn276]

Do you think that alone could trash the bearings like that?

No that will not trash your bearings. I would go back and reset your cam sensor then replace your spark plugs. Then write back on what your results are.

 

[BadAssGN]

Can you pull a couple of Plugs and see if they are lean, I've seen O2 Sensors
Mess up with no Codes.

The plugs wont lie if things are lean.

one other thing, do you have a Fuel pressure gauge you can tape to the windsheild?

 

[vacuum 6]

Can you pull a couple of Plugs and see if they are lean, I've seen O2 Sensors
Mess up with no Codes.

The plugs wont lie if things are lean.

one other thing, do you have a Fuel pressure gauge you can tape to the windsheild?

Agree about the plugs.

IMO - flow test the pump while the car is parked not at WOT. If you have a pump issue this method you'll not hurt anything.

 

[TurboV6Olds]

Engine Trouble

I would be taking a close look at the crank sensor.
Make sure it's not getting hit by the wheel. Also make sure the balancer is tight. 2ft pipe on a breaker tight.
Make sure the sensor is not cocked. Make sure the wheel is not too deep in the sensor. It all makes a difference.
Look at this very carefully and take your time. In some cases the sensor bracket may need modification to be perfect.
The sensor should be gaped .020-.025 or so. Main thing is it's not making contact with the wheel.
Need to rotate the crank and check gap all three blades that pass through

Chris, I'm pretty new to these cars but I have a friend that had his car break down at 1:00 am Sunday morning. He was driving along and heard a squealing belt and all of a sudden it backfired a couple of times so he pulled over and checked things out. After starting the car and continuing down the road a couple of miles it happened again and the car stopped. He went back to the garage and took parts from my car (that is being rebuilt AGAIN) and swapped MAF, ECM, cam sensor cap, and who knows what else. Needless to say AAA towed him home around 7:00 am Sunday morning after having no luck repairing it. I mentioned to him that another friend of ours had a similar problem and it ended up being the balancer being loose. After checking his car he found the same problem with his. Hope this helps.

I had a very lean condition with my car and after blowing head gaskets two times I finally fixed it (not sure what fixed it) I cut all the ground rings from the factory harness and crimped a copper lug onto all the grounds and connected to a filed clean area with dielectric grease on the PS head, I changed the injector harness, and cleaned EVERY electrical connection on the car and applied dielectric grease (per Chuck Leeper) and presto 800 o2s.

Hopefully some of this helps, Rick