New XFI update that supports Intelligent traction Control!!!

[Otto J]

FAST Software Downloads
The ITC is an option that can be purchased,The software updates
you to hve the controls.
You will not see the software on your PC till you install the ITC option file(You must purchase)
and go online with your PC
Ive run the ITC and it works really well but also requires a good driveshaft speed sensor
(Hartline Performance sells a 40 tooth reluctor setup to make this easy)

Also has the abilty to keep the tuning down to a few less parameters for guys just starting out

 

[Chevota]

FAST Software Downloads
The ITC is an option that can be purchased,The software updates
you to hve the controls.
You will not see the software on your PC till you install the ITC option file(You must purchase)
and go online with your PC
Ive run the ITC and it works really well but also requires a good driveshaft speed sensor
(Hartline Performance sells a 40 tooth reluctor setup to make this easy)

Also has the abilty to keep the tuning down to a few less parameters for guys just starting out

Do you have to have a driveshaft sensor or will a VSS signal work?

Scott Wile

 

[Otto J]

The original VSS wont work as it doesnt have the resolution required to make
accurate adjustments.
The 40 tooth setup works real well and even more teeth would be outstanding but not needed.
I believe the stock one only has a few pulses per revolution so the ECU cannot read tire spin acuratley(SP)
and make adjustments as there is too much wheel travel between pulses

 

[Chevota]

Thanks for the quick reply..

 

[EightSecV6]

The original VSS wont work as it doesnt have the resolution required to make
accurate adjustments.
The 40 tooth setup works real well and even more teeth would be outstanding but not needed.
I believe the stock one only has a few pulses per revolution so the ECU cannot read tire spin acuratley(SP)
and make adjustments as there is too much wheel travel between pulses

How fast and accurate is it compared to an MSD 7531?

 

[Otto J]

How fast and accurate is it compared to an MSD 7531?

I have never used the MSD setup.
It controls an amount of timing you set by measuring the amount of excessive tire spin,This is why the more pulses it uses the more accurate
it san read tire spin.
Maybe Dusty can chime in he had been using before I did.

 

[HighPSI]

In my experience, it is more accurate than the MSD. The MSD is monitoring engine rpm where the XFI is monitoring driveshaft speed.
The XFI has two methods of control. One is just like the MSD with a time vs max d/s rpm. This method will drop cylinders to maintain the max d/s speed. The other method (I prefer) is much more subtle and will retard timing to slow wheel speed. It does this by monitoring the change in driveshaft speed (delta driveshaft) and then pulling out an appropriate amount of timing (user programable). Both methods can be employed together for optimum traction control.
I have been using the ITC on my car with very good results.
It is my understanding that XFI boxes with Intelligent Traction Control (ITC) will come with a black enclosure with ITC printed on the outside. This will allow NHRA to better monitor who is using it.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I used it last year and it worked great. I pulls the timing down quickly enough you don't have to lift when the tires spin. It's still a tuner's tool. You pull too much timing out and it kills e.t...you put timing back in too fast and it blows the tires away again, put it back in too slow and it kills e.t.....so on and so on. It is faster than the 7531 but you still have a lot of tunung to do to keep it from taking away too much power on varying track conditions.

We are required to have them enclosed in a black box. I'm currently using the 7531 instead of FAST.

 

[Craig Smith]

How fast and accurate is it compared to an MSD 7531?

While I haven't used either myself, I can say that the method used by FAST is capable of higher speed and precision in maintaining a driveshaft acceleration rate than the MSD method. The sensor on the driveshaft is superior here both due to its high resolution AND the fact that it is not prone to errors from mechanical issues in the engine and/or transmission as would be a system using engine RPM for feedback. A driveshaft acceleration curve is also a lot more predictable than engine RPM, and it allows for more tuning flexibility from start to finish since the speed range is only traversed once instead of however many gears you have.

 

[EightSecV6]

While I haven't used either myself, I can say that the method used by FAST is capable of higher speed and precision in maintaining a driveshaft acceleration rate than the MSD method. The sensor on the driveshaft is superior here both due to its high resolution AND the fact that it is not prone to errors from mechanical issues in the engine and/or transmission as would be a system using engine RPM for feedback. A driveshaft acceleration curve is also a lot more predictable than engine RPM, and it allows for more tuning flexibility from start to finish since the speed range is only traversed once instead of however many gears you have.

From my experience, it is much more accurate for an ECU to "predict" changes in engine RPM and adjust accordingly PRIOR to wheelspin than it is for an ECU to SEE drive shaft speed increasing (tires already spinning) and make changes to stop the loss of traction. the traction control option from FAST is 'neat" and may work in some applications but my opinion is that it will not outperform the MSD however It is alot easier to program and if you already have an XFI, it is an inexpensive option. Hopefully we will see it in action on some high horsepower cars without the slew rate controlled MSD and see how well it performs.

 

[Otto J]

From my experience, it is much more accurate for an ECU to "predict" changes in engine RPM and adjust accordingly PRIOR to wheelspin than it is for an ECU to SEE drive shaft speed increasing (tires already spinning) and make changes to stop the loss of traction. the traction control option from FAST is 'neat" and may work in some applications but my opinion is that it will not outperform the MSD however It is alot easier to program and if you already have an XFI, it is an inexpensive option. Hopefully we will see it in action on some high horsepower cars without the slew rate controlled MSD and see how well it performs.

At the same rate that would mean the MSD would pull timing if the convertor or trans was going away.
With a 40 tooth wheel or better the XFI can see tire spin even at its minimal.
It will show minor tire spin even on a shift.
Obviously you would set the rate to not make any changes with tire spin this minor

Like ya said either one would work.
Nice it is contained into the same box and software

 

[HighPSI]

From my experience, it is much more accurate for an ECU to "predict" changes in engine RPM and adjust accordingly PRIOR to wheelspin than it is for an ECU to SEE drive shaft speed increasing (tires already spinning) and make changes to stop the loss of traction.

Then just use the slew rate of the XFI traction control and turn the delta d/s off. It will perform just like the MSD that you are familiar with.

the traction control option from FAST is 'neat" and may work in some applications but my opinion is that it will not outperform the MSD however It is alot easier to program and if you already have an XFI, it is an inexpensive option. Hopefully we will see it in action on some high horsepower cars without the slew rate controlled MSD and see how well it performs.

Have you used the XFI traction control? I'm not sure what your basing your opinion on.

FWIW: I have used it successfully on two cars that run low 7's and others have used it on faster cars

 

[EightSecV6]

Then just use the slew rate of the XFI traction control and turn the delta d/s off. It will perform just like the MSD that you are familiar with.





Have you used the XFI traction control? I'm not sure what your basing your opinion on.

FWIW: I have used it successfully on two cars that run low 7's and others have used it on faster cars

I am basing my opinion on the fastest cars in the country running traction control are using the MSD.It simply works. I never said the XFI version wouldnt work but IN MY OPINION it wont outperform the MSD.Here is a little clip of the 7531 in action:
YouTube - Tim Lynch

the entire pass on the rear tires.

It will be exciting to see how many cars in the radial and 10.5 class have switched over to driveshaft stye devices in Orlando this year, we will be using the 7531 and everyone knows this is the track where you will need it.

FWIW: low 7's are impressive, I wish there had been more reliable traction control devices available when my car was runnning in that ET range 4 years ago.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Bill, the 7531 isn't really traction control (driveshaft control) as I'm sure you know. It controls rpm rate set by the user and Petty's one of the best. Both FAST and MSD will hurt e.t's if not set properly. I liked the fact FAST used timing rather than dropping cylinders.

We use the 7531 like Lynch uses his. You can't control timing and power with the FAST because you get to full boost so quickly. That's why guys use the 7531. You can ramp timing over a wide range, use gear retards etc.

Here's a video of our last race. Reese was using the 7531.

YouTube - David Reese's Accident at Phenix City, AL

You can see he had the dot's low enough to keep from murdering the tires but still not low enough to stop tire spin. I have seen this car ride the dots over half track before. When I experienced tire spin on the top side of the track like this, XFI caught it. It slowed me down, but it salvaged a run that would have been aborted.

 

[Craig Smith]

From my experience, it is much more accurate for an ECU to "predict" changes in engine RPM and adjust accordingly PRIOR to wheelspin than it is for an ECU to SEE drive shaft speed increasing (tires already spinning) and make changes to stop the loss of traction. the traction control option from FAST is 'neat" and may work in some applications but my opinion is that it will not outperform the MSD however It is alot easier to program and if you already have an XFI, it is an inexpensive option. Hopefully we will see it in action on some high horsepower cars without the slew rate controlled MSD and see how well it performs.

Well, I suppose there may be advantages to each style of tackling this issue. However, I am a bit confused about the prediction aspect as you are describing it. How can a device predict wheel spin? Unless I am mistaken, a device of this sort can only react to an input and adjust accordingly, meaning that wheelspin must occur prior to the traction control device taking steps to reduce power.

My thought is that the MSD reacts to an increase in acceleration rate of the engine, which could only come from 1 of three things; loss of traction, mechanical issues in the powertrain, or a much faster run. The last one we obviously wouldn't want to correct, and I am sure that programming limits in any system make it hard for this to be a factor. The second one would likely slow you down already, and if the 7531 reacts the way I anticipate it would, that would slow you down even more. The silver lining there is that it may help limit or prevent further damage by reducing power. Probably not the intent, but potentially a benefit.

The first item, loss of traction, is of course the only thing that a traction control system should really respond to. I believe that a driveshaft based system should provide better feedback and be affected by fewer variables. It's all in the implementation, but it should be the better mousetrap.

 

[SGRIM]

For all us dummies reading this how does factory traction control work. On the vettes soon as it started spinning the pedal would raise up. I am just curious!

 

[top gun]

FWIW: low 7's are impressive, I wish there had been more reliable traction control devices available when my car was runnning in that ET range 4 years ago.

Bill you did a great job tuning and driving that rocket ship with old school technology. The clutch & tune up were not "over your head" and you "kept it off the wall" running low 7's

 

[Fuelie Nova]

So just a question on the new version... it will not allow you to install into any other directory other than the default. Any way around this?
Tg

 

[Otto J]

So just a question on the new version... it will not allow you to install into any other directory other than the default. Any way around this?
Tg

If you want to keep an old version going,Go into your computer and find the xfi folder for the version you want seperate and rename it.
Do this before you install the new one

 

[Fuelie Nova]

Thanks, just figured that out. I don't see any reason to upgrade if I am not going to use traction control.

Tg