New Grand National - Help with a setup

C

camarox53

Enjoying the Darkside
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Hey Everyone,
I am new to the Forum and I just bought my first 1986 Buick Grand National. I am 19 and have always loved the Grand National, and I would love to get this beast running in the mid 10s with a little room to expand later on if I wanted to. I have several friends who have no idea what a Grand National is, and especially don't realize it is a quick car. I have read through various threads on the Forum looking for some assistance with my setup but none of them really fit my situation. I have worked several summers and have around 10K set aside for this build. Any advice you guys could give me on building this would be greatly appreciated. The GN will be primarily driven on the street and occasionally taken to the track. The car is basically bone stock.

My current setup is as follows:
- Shift Kit ( Was installed in the car when I got it, Spins about 5ft of rubber when shifting from 1st to 2nd)
- 2.5 in Cat back exhaust with Flowmaster Mufflers. ( Installed when I got it)

Thanks!
Cam
 
Welcome to the TR world! The biggest thing I can recommend it to read, read and read some more. And when you are done reading on here go to Vortex and read some more. So much useful info on here and there. As I learn more and more I go back and read them again.
http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/
Something you might find really useful is his Combination/synergy write up: http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/combinationexamples.htm

I have seen other guys link his page on here so I don't think I am breaking any rules. If so, sorry.

$10k may sound like a lot, and it is, but if you just start blindly throwing money at it, it won't be enough. If you are wise with the upgrades the 10k will go a long ways. You may laugh and say you have read a lot but the more dig into these TR's the more you learn you need to learn. I am on my 3rd one now and am still learning as I go. Most the other guys will say the same thing.

All the guys here will want to know everything that has already been done too. What size injectors? what chip? Any scan tools? (if there are none, stay out of the boost until you install one!) Turbo size? Boost, fuel pressure.. any Gauges? The further we get away from 1986-1987 the less likelyhood that nothing has been done. Even Grandma has chipped her grocery getter by now!

Feel free to post questions, the guys on here overall are very awesome and glad to help. The TR community is an awesome elite group to be in. But do the research, use the search function on here. A lot.
 
Nobody wants a lightly modded TR anymore. Lol. The links provided above would be a great start! Reading and tuning and reading and tuning. That's the general rule of thumb with these cars. Good luck. Hopefully you enjoy it as is first before throwing parts at it immediately.
 
Thanks for the replies guys,
It was previously owned by a family member and I loved to drive it. I liked it enough that I bought it lol. I am not sure everything that has been done to the car yet but I grabbed some numbers off the turbo the other day. "466748-4" is engraved on the back of the turbo. The front of the turbo clearly states that it is a Garrett. ( I believe this is the stock turbo?)

I am reading as much as I can, and thank you for the links I will definitely look into those! As you said there is a ton of information on these cars!

I currently have no scan tools, I have read that the "ScanMaster" is a must have tool, I was planning on picking one of them up as soon as possible. The car came with a chip called "The Pitbull" or something like that. I believe it was purchased through Kirban several years ago from the paperwork I found in the car. I did some research on that and I was told that the chip is terrible.The chip also causes the car not to idle well and occasionally dies while at idle. It does however cause the boost to jump from around 14psi to 21psi. At 21psi it feels like it isn't getting enough fuel though, could the injectors be maxing out? I will try and get a part number or something off the injectors to determine what those may be. Also with the stock chip the car idles and runs just fine.

Thanks,
Cam
 
you shouldn't run that much boost on pump gas. I would hesitate going WOT until you get a scan tool to find out what the car is doing. Therefore, we can remove the guessing with the fuel situation. Scan tool and a FP gauge I would say is definitely a must have. Your motor wont last long running 21 psi on pump gas with no supporting mods.
 
wow. Where to start. Get a scanmaster right away. If you can't stay out of the boost when you drive it until the scanmaster is installed, hand the keys to someone else-designated driver style. Or just park it. No doubt you have some serious knock going on and you will replacing head gaskets soon.
A simple order list like this is in order, just to know what is even going on with the car: ScanMaster, Boost Gauge, Adjustable Fuel Pressure valve, Fuel Pressure Gauge, Knock Gauge. I'm sure some other guys will chime in on more but that's a good start, like I said, all just as a baseline of knowing what is going on with the car. A perfectly running GN left all stock would be in serious trouble with todays gas in the 10-15# of boost. You are running over 20.
 
Good thing ur nineteen and u've got 5k left after u were done with ur first post ..lol
 
Things I have learned along the way:
Throw the PitBull chip away. I speak from personal experience. Take your first $80 and buy a TurboTweak chip to match your injectors and turn the boost down. This will help your motor live until you get some things figured out. Then get the thing running RIGHT and SAFELY to start with. Good brakes are a necessity. Search "spring cleaning" and do everything on the list.

Keep in mind that going 10's will involve MORE than building a high HP motor; you'll need to address the entire drive train (converter, transmission, drive shaft, possibly rear end & axles, and more than likely SOME suspension mods / repairs). Parts can add up very fast, but if you don't address all the driveline points as you go (or before you go), you might find yourself stuck at 11.8's with a busted transmission that you didn't budget for, or something else. These cars were designed from the factory for 245hp and 14's in the quarter.

With that out of the way, I would decide HOW you want to get to 10's - race gas, meth injection, or E85. On a limited budget, it will be difficult to get to 10's on pump gas. Hell with UNLIMITED funds it would be difficult.

Once you figure out race gas, meth injection, or E85, you can start coming up with a combo. For example, you don't want to do like I did and buy yourself a set of 60# injectors and a chip because you want an 11.0 time slip, only to find later that E85 is a better route for you and the 60's won't get you there! Each of these methods have their merits and their downfalls, but seek advice from the knowledgeable guys on the board and you will be OK.

Be able to recognize "cool guy" parts from parts that actually work. no sense spending $800 on a set of pretty stainless headers when stockers properly welded back together will get you there. Focus on NECESSITY first! (I'm guilty as hell about ignoring this rule.)

Electronics are VERY important in these cars. Good charging system goes along way. Good fuel supply is also paramount. Avoiding knock is critical. Other than that, these cars are a load of fun. Oh yeah - be safe with the thing. There aren't many 86's out there, and I've turned down many races on the street simply because I didn't want to hurt myself, somebody else, or the car.
 
Thanks for the help guys!,
Just to clear some things up, I was not a fan of that Pitbull chip and I knew something was going on when it wasn't idling correctly so I removed it and I have been running with the stock chip up to this point. Like everyone said, 20psi is a lot for pump gas, I was just curious what the chip could do and quickly got that out of there. I will get the parts VtheGNMan suggested as soon as possible. Hopefully this will provide some information on what is going on.

Just as a side note, I plan to run Meth injection instead of race gas when the time comes, seems to be the best option for me.

Thanks everyone,
Cam
 
Listen to these guys Cam! I'm fairly new to the board & GN world myself. I read, read, read & still reading & asking questions. The people on here AWESOME! I purchased a neglected GN a few months ago & now it's almost ready to hit the road. I bought it cuz of low mileage & potential. It's now, probably runnin' better than it has in a long time. But that's because I listened to the right people on what to do! But before I started throwing money at it, I took it to a guy here in AZ, Nick Micale (who is very well respected) & he specifically told me what to do, what parts to buy & what brands to buy & stay away from. As soon as I did those few things, it went from running very rough to purring like a cat (a healthy one:)). Now I am on to my next phase of my build & have spent some money, well quite a bit, getting it to run right & it's strictly street car. LOL! So TAKE YOUR TIME & LISTEN to these vets.

Congrats on ur First GN!
 
Thanks Antbankstwo3!, I know these cars have been around for quite some time and there are a lot of people on here that have an extensive amount of knowledge when it comes to the turbo Buick. I am hoping I can learn from all of them and get this Buick where I would like it to be. I am still reading and will be forever but I am learning which is what counts.

Also Congrats on restoring your GN!

-Cam
 
Earlbrown, Sorry I upset you, it was not my intention. I am just trying to set a future goal that I wish to accomplish at some point. I am fully aware that a 10 second quarter mile is extremely fast, however I am not familiar with what it takes these cars to get there. That is why I am asking questions to others who have accomplished these feats before.

Thanks,
Cam
 
$$$ and patience and you still may not get there.im going to actually try to talk you out of 10seconds,its really out of reach unless you are prepared to go through the whole car.yes many can get a turbo regal into the 10s some alittle cheaper than others but your talking about lots of risk and stress on a lot of parts that are very old.10g is going to go fast.11's can be had utilizing minor bolt ons.
 
Oh, you didn't upset me. Not by any means.

You have a HUGE laundry list of preventative maintenance items and a few upgrades that HAVE to be done to have a remotely reliable car. On the upside, when that's done and a few bucks are spent on upgrades, you'll have an actual low 12/high 11 sec car that will kick the crap out of every "10 sec street car" you could find on the street.


If you truly have to have a 10 second car, this is the ONLY way I know for you to do it based on where you're at and what you know about the car you just bought....... Buy a 10 second car.


Now normally I always encourage people to do their own work......... BUT based on what I've seen with my own two eyes, your goals are just to lofty.

In all my years of doing this, I've NEVER seen a newbie show up talking about 10's and actually achieving it. I have seen many newbies show up, tear the crap out of their car, and vanish.
 
LIke a few other members said, getting it running right and on a safe tune is a priority.
It's nice to have goals, but it'd be hard with $10K to build a 10 second TR that wouldn't be a potential grenade waiting to go off without the necessary experience of working with them and building it up properly according to the ways of how a buick motor likes.
Yeah they were made under GM, but the TR's aren't like their GM cousins in the least bit when it comes to the engine department. Quite a few have tried rebuilding the TR motors like any other motor and found out quickly there are Do's & Don'ts with those turbo engines that have to be followed. You also really need a beefed up tranny and rear end to withstand the stress the engine puts on them at that level. If i had the $10K to spend on performance upgrades, i'd aim for between high to mid-low 11's and call it a day.

It's cool to get over 20mpg on the highway with an 11 sec car that you can drive and enjoy most days with pretty good reliability vs constantly fixing something on a potentially 10 sec capable car that you barely can even get to enjoy cause stuff keeps breaking on it.

Once you make it live for a long while in the 12's to 11's, if you find that ain't fast enough after going that fast then you can either take a chance on saving up to get the mods to try to reach 10's or save up to buy one already built for 10's. Welcome to the Turbo Buick Family and hope you get to enjoy your '86 for quite some time. Good Luck with your GN, try to be patient with the upgrades and i hope you get it going good before the funds dry up.

Almost anyone can try to build a car to run 10's, not as many can actually get the time slips and achieve 10's tho. If the person behind the wheel doesn't know how to make the car turn that number, the car won't ever go that number. It's not just having the parts working together properly, the driver and the parts combo in the car have to all work in tandem to achieve things.
I know of quite a few people that run 12's or worse with cars that are built for 10's, cause they don't know how to make the car go that fast.
 
Last edited:
Antbankstwo3 said:
Listen to these guys Cam! I'm fairly new to the board & GN world myself. I read, read, read & still reading & asking questions. The people on here AWESOME! I purchased a neglected GN a few months ago & now it's almost ready to hit the road. I bought it cuz of low mileage & potential. It's now, probably runnin' better than it has in a long time. But that's because I listened to the right people on what to do! But before I started throwing money at it, I took it to a guy here in AZ, Nick Micale (who is very well respected) & he specifically told me what to do, what parts to buy & what brands to buy & stay away from. As soon as I did those few things, it went from running very rough to purring like a cat (a healthy one:)). Now I am on to my next phase of my build & have spent some money, well quite a bit, getting it to run right & it's strictly street car. LOL! So TAKE YOUR TIME & LISTEN to these vets.

Congrats on ur First GN!
Click to expand...

Nick Micale's a great guy, super knowledgeable and he's always there to help. Great choice!
 
Thanks for all the comments everyone,
I would be fine with running in the 11s. Above all I would like to have a reliable car that is built to run as best it can for the 10K I have to throw at it. I totally agree with all of the "house keeping" I have to do with the car before I can start thinking about performance upgrades. I ordered a Scan Master, Knock Gauge, and replacement bumper fillers yesterday afternoon to help complete some of that process. The hood is also in need of a repaint, hopefully I can get that stripped this weekend and have it painted soon. I already have a spare Fuel pressure gauge at the house I will put in there when I get home. I think this should allow me to at least figure out what is going on with the car as it sits currently. I will report back some Scan Master information as soon as it arrives and hopefully you guys can provide some assistance with that.

Thanks again to VtheGNMan for those awesome website links, I have been reading through that information and I have learned several things so far.

Thanks for all the support everyone, it's much appreciated,
Cam
 
Guys dont forget hes 19... I personally dont like what i see these days with the young and this kid has my respect already .. They say given the choice most kids nowadays will choose their iphone over a car ..sad sad world
 
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